.. why does any rig have to make the site more money? I don't how u can't comprehend the simplest things in life. Did u have some traumatic issue in the past? If so I do feel for you and hope u can work it out. Do i understand that rigging any hand will not make a site any more money on that hand no matter how they rig it? Please if u don't get this concept let me know and maybe I can explain it to you.

You should definitely explain the process of how and why a site would rig the game in a way that would make them no extra money when doing so. That could be fun to read if you actually tried (though unlikely to happen as you never put effort into anything).

You can present it as a business plan of sorts, where you an estimate the expenses the site pays for this rig (software development, programmer costs, hush money to keep it secret with the people who know about it etc.), and then after that you can do a risk analysis of the chances and consequences of if it is caught and proven by the players. After you do all of that you can show why, with your special logic, that it is in the site's best interest to do all of this in the hope to make no additional money. Perhaps they will go with the "Bank of Change" approach of volume, volume, volume. You said you would explain it - so go for it!

After you can then make up and talk about a second hand you played to let you get to 2 fictional hands of your 36,000 hand project.

All the best.

We've begun down this path before in this very thread.

Nobody, and I literally mean nobody, thinks that a small number of hand-picked hand histories is evidence of any rigging of any online poker site.

The mods of this forum have made it clear that this thread is not the personal blog of any poster and will not allow posts of that nature. Posts of that nature will likely be deleted and the poster may very well be banned or infracted in some manner.

Of course, posting a file of or link to a large number of non-hand-picked hand histories in order to look into whether there are "too many" action hands is allowed and could prompt an analysis of the issue.

If i say a site deals aces vs kings you say it make a the site no money.....correct it does not make the site any more at the particular time on that one particular hand. It will in the long run because people generally play longer if the hands are exciting especially rec played. If they get bored they quit. They don't care so much if they win or lose they want excitement. If they get it they play longer, if they play longer more rakes for the site

Nope, that is not how it works. Big hands like that move larger clumps of money (long term from donks to better players) with a relatively small amount of rake paid on those money clump moves. That is why sites would always prefer games with less edge, and more churning of rake so that they get a much bigger cut of the pie. Sites would literally love a comeback of limit poker which churned a ton more rake (with money not moving as much between players).

The rig you propose would actually make the site lose money since relatively little rake would be had on the larger clumps of money moving to the regs who then cash it out, and as much as simplistic folk like you seem to think that fish have unlimited funds that they love depositing because they see sexy AA vs KK hands - that is not reality. Even donks like to win at times, and if they lose their money faster (as would happen with your action hand rig nonsense) then they are much more likely to quit. Also, too many action hands would be easily detected in any regs database of hands. This is why you see games constantly changing to try to soften the skill edges regs have over casuals.

Also, too many action hands would be easily detected in any regs database of hands, who actually know how to use tools like that instead of whining about some random single hand as if it means anything.

Your rig beliefs are naturally exactly wrong in terms of running a business, but that was expected. You should stick to prop bets/ declarations of work you will do that you abandon within an hour - that is something you actually are good at doing.

All the best.

This.........
This.........
This is why no one can prove anything. According to u guys every sample is too small. Go. Well played

Wal-Mart loses money on things like shampoo and stuff like this. Why is that ? They do it because they hope u shop there more and spend more. If you buy shampoo and leave well they lost money that hand if u stay and spend another $50 then they made money that session.
Ignition poker has anonymous tables Why? It's obc they try to limit the winners. Does being anonymous limit a winner right now this session ? Probably not. Does it work over a long stretch .....most likely

You are making my point even if so is lose to fast they quit....yoi got it....u hit the nail on the head Monty. They lose much slower online. It's a fact. Bad players lose much slower u did it guy. 14 years and u got it. Whats next peace between North and South ?? My god the light has shown on Monty. 14 years of saying bad players lose slower and now he finally agreeds because if they lose too fast even they quit. My god help us. Took you 14 years to get that ? It's obc the rig keeps the games even this is what I been saying forever

Come back here after you sober up to post. Granted it will not be that much of an improvement, but you may avoid drunken rambles like the following:

your post seems to be that when donks lose faster they quit, but then you are saying the rooms rig it in a way so that they lose faster (ie: action hands with larger pots and smaller relative rake) while also making the site less money.

In list form your rig:

- Costs the site a good amount of money (programming costs, hush money costs etc.)

- Increases the risk of their business if the rig is discovered

- Causes donks to lose faster and quit faster while regs cash out more from the site.

- Makes the site less money in rake.



Quite the rig theory you believe in!

All the best.

FYP.

Everyone but you has understood this from the beginning, you babbling buffoon. Getting people's money into large pots and/or all-in more often means they lose their money faster.

I usually don't resort to name-calling, but I'm making an exception here because I'm so tired of your nonsense.

Who says the pots are larger ?
Gl guys. All the best

You did.

AA vs KK type hands will be definition have larger pots, and large amounts of money will move between players with relatively less rake payed for that money movement.

Not anyone else's fault that you toss out all sorts of theories that contradict each other (other than that none of them make the sites money). You say they deal action hands (that is what your 36,000 hand experiment that lasted 30 hands was going to show). Then you say action hands move money too fast and donks quit. No idea what will be next from you, but odds are it will make no sense for any site to do it as a business - that is one thing all your rigs have in common.

All the best.

I said action hands move money to quick and Donks quit? My theory since the beginning was and still is this.
Sites do not rig games to make one individual player win or lose, I believe they do rig games to keep things more even. How they do it ubhave no idea

The real "Rig" is the computer BOTS that are playing. Years ago the BOTS were not so good. These days they are absolutely insane good. Some BOTS are even tied into HEM PT.

Just google or YouTube "Shanky Bot" or "Max In Montreal".

Below link is Maxinmontreal.com. It is a site where POKER BOT Programmers congragate to share and sell there latest code/hacks.
There are other sites as well. This particular link is of a description of a particular site setup and screen grab configuration.

I would love to see Poker Sites do a test. Issue an update that starkly changes card locations or the way the numbers/suits look across their platform. I would like to see just how much the traffic goes down.
Of course Poker Sites will not do this because 1) they need the traffic 2) the gig would be up that so many "players" are actually computer BOTS.

For all the apologists who post in this thread. The Proof is at the link below. You can also google/YouTube Shanky Bot or Max in Montreal. There are also some places on Reddit and 4CHAN.

*LINKS REMOVED*

On a side note I loved online poker and played for years. I Have over 23,000 SNG & Tournaments and Cash Game as well.
I do not play online no more because of the BOTS.

This isn't the revelation you seem to think it is. There are hundreds of threads on our forums about bots (no need for all-caps); this isn't one of them.

When you do post about them in an appropriate thread, most people appreciate it when you don't advertise the botting sites with links.

well thanks, a great reminder of what's going on in the online poker world ...why is everybody is so angry at the game! where is all that fkn money right? lol

personally i can't even grab a dollar in this game anymore, but bots are free to dive in , play and collect as much as they want whitout any substantial consequence ..that's the problem !! putt criminal charge in the mix we won't see them anymore

Do you actually think anyone in this thread or elsewhere on this site is not well aware that there are lots of poker bots on every major site, and has been for years? Which "apologists" are you referring to who have ever argued otherwise?

Dang..so much hatred.
so let me get correct
Everyone agrees BOTS are rampant in game.

but...but...but... there is a 3,373 page thread on whether or not the sites themselves may or may not be cheating players

OMG...so much wasted energy.

No, I didn't see any hatred. People can criticize a post without hating. If you don't like criticism of your posts, perhaps forums aren't the place for you.

Well, I think everyone will agree they're a problem. As for rampant, I'm sure you'll get some agreement on that as well.

Right, this is a thread about a different topic. That's sort of how forums work - different threads about different topics.

Not sure what this is supposed to mean in this case, but I'm sure you can find thousands of examples of "wasted energy" all over the Internet.

Most of it is jungtard rambling though

When a mod kindly and gently suggests that your post does not belong in this thread, I do not consider it wise to double-down and essentially submit the same post again later that same day. What part of that did you not understand?

Personally I have been a visitor or a member of 2+2 for well over 10 years. I can promise you two things:

(1) in that time there have been innumerable "wasted" posts and "wasted" threads on a wide variety of poker-related and non-poker-related topics

(2) in that time there have been thousands of posts complaining about how online poker sites are rigged in some way (I will leave it to the reader to judge how many of these posts were "wasted").

This second type of post was appearing so frequently and in so many different 2+2 forums and threads that the wise site admin decided to create a "containment" thread which you are now reading.

So, I would gladly concede that to many people it probably appears that the posts in this thread are "wasted" (even to some of us who post in this thread from time to time). Having said that, however, this thread itself is far from "wasted".

If you wish to post on BOTS playing on various online poker sites, I look forward to reading your insights in another thread in this forum.

Online Poker is bot infested.

No it is BOTS infested

the ignition kill switch is back and better than ever. if you plan on cashing out from ignition, you better make plans to find a new website. cashed out a month ago, and I've gotten fisted non-stop on the site. no matter how the odds are stacked against my opponent, they find a way. Don't cash out if you plan on playing at the site longer. google ignition kill switch, its been going on since they opened up shop. criminals

lol

I’ve been cashing out from ignition/Bovada for years. Never once experienced this “kill switch” you speak of. Weird. Maybe it’s you?

P.S. Google seems to think I want to buy an ignition kill switch for a car or truck from amazon or eBay.

You fell for their most obvious trick. You have to take one month off before you play again after cashing out.