Lol. Those sneaky bastards. How they stay in your way of becoming a billionaire. They probably have your account under supervision so you don't take advantage of the rig your brilliant mind has uncovered just with the sheer power of eyesight.

To keep it simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IPlO0KSpjE

Or the very next hand.

Obvious truth is obvious.

What point did you make when you say they can't prove it? And where did Bobo say that rigging can't be proved if the sites rig the RNG to do the sort of rig that you imply?



Again, for the site to be making a lot of money cheating they would have to rig a pretty big bunch of their hands. Those rigs would come up in the HH's. I remember, if I'm not mistaken Lock Poker had those type of problems but instead of giving HH's to be proven or not cause the suspicion was already there by some analyses did on some previous samples they chose to disappear. Big sites nowadays release HH's. You can check them, if there's any rigging taking place, it will be discovered. Again, I'm talking of consistent rigging. If you say that the sites rig 1 in 100000 hands, I'm going to back you up on that cause there is no way we can prove it and basically it would only MAYBE bring the site a few extra cents.



How can they win 200000 thousands dollars by rigging a couple of hands ? How ? explain to me.



And these small winning players doomed to be break even players forever, how are they selected ? And why would the sites make them breakeven ? What would they gain ? You do realize that there are a good bunch of solid winning players out there, no ? Which at some point were small winning players themselves. Did they just got lucky not to be selected by the site?



"If they let the winning player destory the fish the site dies and no more rake".
On the long run, the winning player will always destroy the fish. This is common sense. Again, if you want to imply that they are rigging one hand here and one hand there for keeping the fish alive, ok. I'll go along with that.
But there's a problem with this theory. The risk vs reward problem. A fish is a fish. You rig one hand and keep him alive, he feels good, he plays some more, 100 hands later ( at best ), the fish is bust. They just raked a few more cents from a fish. And of course this is the scenario where the fish doesn't go bust quickly after the rigged hand. Is it worth it for a company to take the risk of being caught rigging the games ? Again, I'm talking the big companies here.



Considering how many fishes are out there, if you rig hands for them constantly to keep them alive you might make some profit, but it will start to become obvious in the HH's that something ain't right.
Bottomline is, it isn't good, business wise for the companies to rig the hands for the fish. They will bust their bankrolls sooner or later by themselves. The ones who would reload will do so with or without help by one rigged hand.


What did the CEO of WPN say publicly?

UB and AP were superusers, not rigged RNG's.


" There are many problems that online sites face that can be fixed by just fixing the outcome once in awhile and go without notice"

Like what and how would they go without notice?[/QUOTE]

It is probably pretty dumb for big company to rig a site but there is ways to do it without being caught. I think you cant prove alot of things. The software can be setup however you want it to. You can make a software that makes sure you cant trace the rig in the hand history. The ceo twitch streams and not sure if it saved. I told you what he said. The ap/ub was more than just superusers. Dude put a super user account in the software and sold it. New owner had no clue. You think them people learn a new way? By the way im talk bout the costa rico sites. Most of them are doing something shady.

This is the dumbest theory i've ever heard.I can only imagine online employees that random say : "hey guys,we are close to hand 1000-let's rigg this muda****a".I'm not working for stars or whatever,but if a site is rigged,then there's a probability that it will be unveiled sooner or later.Until then..there's literary no such proof a site is rigged.Like anyone,we all have ups and downs

Please do so, thank you.

That was a quick reversal.

What's wrong with showing your graph with your SN removed?

It is probably pretty dumb for big company to rig a site but there is ways to do it without being caught. I think you cant prove alot of things. The software can be setup however you want it to. You can make a software that makes sure you cant trace the rig in the hand history. The ceo twitch streams and not sure if it saved. I told you what he said. The ap/ub was more than just superusers. Dude put a super user account in the software and sold it. New owner had no clue. You think them people learn a new way? By the way im talk bout the costa rico sites. Most of them are doing something shady.[/QUOTE]




I'm not sure anyone can prove or disprove your allegations about WPN Ceo, but whatever. What does it have to do with the rigging of the card distribution ?

What do you have with Costa Rica, dude ? You are basically saying that if they are from Costa Rica, they are more likely to be criminals. This is called a stereotype. To give you another example of a stereotype so you get the idea: " Black people are better at basketball than white people". " All muslims are terorists".


For this : "It is probably pretty dumb for big company to rig a site but there is ways to do it without being caught. I think you cant prove alot of things. The software can be setup however you want it to. You can make a software that makes sure you cant trace the rig in the hand history". You deserve this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IPlO0KSpjE

How the hell can a company make a software that makes sure you cannot find a rig in the HH's if the RNG is rigged.

To put it simply : In poker there are some things called odds. With a random distribution, the HH's will show that the cards that we're dealt were close to the expectancy. If not for a random distribution, the HH's will show pretty big discrepancies.


As you seem to make a lot of allegations without any freaking logic or common sense I will indulge you.

I am willing to give you the amount of money that will enable you to buy the island of Costa Rica ( since is popular to mention it ) if you post your winning player graph.

Alex maybe you should research costa rico a bit. Im not stereo typing anybody. There has been multiple documentaries on this too. Funny that bobo hasnt responded to my questions. Begginning to think that you are bobo. You sure post just like him.

Lol you know he can just buy someones hh right. Shoot costa rica probably not cheap. Must have lots of cheddar.

I am not Bobo. I am sure he will respond to you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven

Maybe this is the reason that a lot of the sites establish their HQ in these places. And, curiously, just amuse me, if these companies were to be established in the US, UK, China, Russia or whatever country's government you trust, would you trust the companies ?

I am not sure what Costa Rica's social situation has to do with the alleged rigging of the sites. Again, if rigging were occuring it will be uncovered whether the companies are established in Costa Rica or in Romania.

Most of the people that make these rigging theories about worldwide sites seem to forget the idea that if the sites were indeed doing the crazy **** they were suggesting, it would basically be a worldwide scam. Usually, these require a lot of resources, a lot of people involved and leaves traces. And subsequently, in this alleged worldwide scam, the victims are us, the poker players.

Among the poker players there are a lot of highly intelligent, educated people who would sniff a rig/scam of this sort out by an analysis as has happened in the past. Not to mention that if governments ( let's say the US government in regards to Black Friday ) had any suspicion or lead if the sites were dealing the cards unfairly they wouldn't have used that against them ?

Take a look at the italian, spanish or french government. They allowed sites like Pokerstars into the country but only with the condition that the players can only play within themselves. So, France has a separate server, Spain has a separate server, Italy has a separate server. The main reason for this is because governments hated it if a lot of money were to leave the country. By this measure they control it.

Sites like Pokerstars, 888 etc. are exposed to the world. If there were things like you or others have suggested they would have been caught by now.


But ignore what I've just said. You seem to ignore all of my questions. See the posts above.


In regards to Jungmit, he says a lot of crazy stuff, so I've said some crazy stuff. See where it gets us ? Nowhere. But I am willing to back the offer when I said that if he exposes the rainy thursday rig that he has going in his mind to me and if it really works, I am willing to give him 70% of my profits that I make from the rig. Of course he will not do this because there is no rig and of course he will still say there is a rig but he is greedy and won't share with anyone and that he is profiting from it cause he is a billionaire in disguise. See where I'm getting at?

He probably lives in Costa Rica too. Maybe we'll become closer through this post cause I always wanted to visit Costa rica ( I am not joking ).

It is a beautiful place. You ask silly questions. Yea i believe jug is just trolling everyone too that another reason he should have his own thread and if it goes nowhere then they can just close it. Putting them all in here makes it hard to read and keep track of anything. Which seems kind of silly. Plus people like me would never post. Bobo and you talk about the damage this thread does to online poker. He talk about deleting all rig threads. Why not just treat them like you treat the thread where people say pokersite took money from them?

No I dont trust anything online. It has to do with the laws there. That is why people run there when they are wanted in the us. Worldwide scams are the hardest to solve. There are many pros that say these sites are scum. Leatherazz wpn pro was even talking bout it on twitch. He is the only wpn pro that i know about. If you are winning money playing poker why would you say anything bout a rig? I believe hhs dont show rigs. Only the obvious. You and other keep saying pokerstars. I personal have always like pokerstars and think they have went above and beyond to show they are legit. I have played on tons of sites and pokerstars by far is the best of the best. Another reason why this thread should go away. The people that are in here to defend pokerstars are also defending all online poker sites. I gave you a rig that you agreed would be impossible to detect. You think there isnt many more? So the question of is online poker rigged? It can be obviously. Is pokerstars rigged? Probably not. Ap/ub was rigged.

Hey bobo do me a favor and close my account and this thread at the same time.

Can you please state the laws that you don't like?

What pros? You say there are many pros that say this, yet you give me one example and say it is the only one you know. I'm gonna research the screen name.

HH's alone do not show rigs. HH's together analysed show rigs.

You gave me a rig that I said I agree it would be impossible to detect and that would bring the site like 3 more cents in profits. Basically, I never agreed with any of your suggested allegations about rigging.

Ab/up = superuser. What does that have to do with random distribution of the cards ?

*

Originally posted by Leatherass
"As far as the poker being rigged thing, I don't 100% rule out the sites possibly having some mechanism that makes things marginally unfair, however I think that is highly unlikely and it is impossible that they are doing anything obviously unfair."

Is this it? Damn, even he/she disagrees with you.

Didn't think me having other things to do for the day would be that amusing.

You should reread my post and the ones I was replying to; that's not even close to what I was saying. What I was talking about was altering the outcome of hands by rigging the RNG vs. changing the deal after the RNG, which would make no difference to whether or not such a rig or alteration could be detected.

In a way that would net them a significant return and be undetectable? No, I don't think there is.

Fair enough. I might be, but I've seen nothing to convince me thus far.

LOL, what? Putting all the rigged posts into one giant thread that is almost always at the top of the forum is a cover up? Seems like deleting all the rigged posts and banning people like jungmit would be a much more effective way to cover things up. The only 2+2 employee who responds in this thread is me (mods are volunteers). The only reason posts are "torn up" is because they have terrible reasoning. And having the same posts in different threads wouldn't make a difference; I understand you wouldn't know this first hand as you haven't been here that long. Before we started merging threads, we'd get a number of threads started by people like jungmit every month. All the same people would respond in each of the threads, and all the same discussions would happen in each of the threads. We merge these threads together for the same reason we do that for questions about Bodog, or about Merge cashouts, or about Bitcoins, or many other topics. It's a lot easier to find answers and avoid duplicate conversations when the information is all in one place.

No, not really. First of all, I'm not too concerned that threads like this are going to take down online poker, whether there is one, or 3 or 4 new ones every week. Secondly, we also have advertisements for B&M rooms, live tournaments, and many other things.

I don't recall having had anything to say about employees in Costa Rica, or anyone else. But now that you're asking, I'd find it pretty surprising that if online poker was rigged in as many places as some think it is, that no one has ever come forward. Of course, I'm not so xenophobic as to believe that every person in any country is on the wrong side of the law.

I know that many types of rigging that people have suggested would be trivially easy to prove, yet they are unable to do so. And yes, there have been a number of rigs suggested that would require some pretty big sample sizes and in-depth analysis.

What's there to keep track of? Every person who wants to talk about their latest rig theory, most of which are rehashes of ones suggested dozens of times before, doesn't need a new thread. As I said, that's the way it used to be. And it sucked for the forum overall.

I'm not sure I understand this. We are merging them now, and you are posting now.

Alex suggested it damages online poker; I disputed that.

I said that would be an alternative that wasn't a good idea.

If people posted rigged theories with some hard facts and decent statistics to back them up, this comparison would work. Then we'd have an issue of concern, and something tangible to discuss, like we do with threads where people say a poker site took money from them.

This thread is fine. If you want your own account closed for some reason, PM a mod or admin and make that request, but it's not going to be conditional on some thread being closed.

I didnt say i dont like them. I meant that is why poker sites and wanted people from the us go there. I not going to name a bunch of names. That is silly the one I did name is a pro that is sponsored by wpn and he twitch streams when he plays. He was talking to people that was watching. The quote you posted seems to back my statement up. About how it wouldnt surprise him if it was rigged. Im not just talking bout the rng being rigged. Many ways they do it. Fact is that the owner ap/ub. made a superuser account in his software than sold it. So that means online poker has been rigged up before. You understand? That is the whole point of this thread. Read the header. Enough of your silly questions.

Hey bobo just want to apologize. I do disagree with you about lots of things but really my option doesnt matter. I have no hard fact but feel if there was a wpn rigged thread. i would of loaded a tons of info to support my claims. I did say everyone in costo rica. Which I really have no clue. Just what I read about and obviously there got to be good people in every spot in this world. You do better job than I would do modding. Maybe this is the best option. Seems like each site should have its own thread tho. People like me? only post in here cuz it is option based. Cover up probably wrong words to use.

When somebody says that the sites rig their deal, you usually, if not always refer to the RNG. This, I am saying again will come up in HH's. What I understand from Leatherass's statement is that he doesn't think that big rigging is going on and by big rigging I mean an alteration of the deal that would make it improbable/impossible for players to win long term. The sort of rig he refers to ( what I understand from it ) is what you and others have implied:

That the sites rig their deal in a slight manner that favours losing players here and there. Of course, the benefits for the sites from this are yet to be explained. The usual explanation would've been to keep losing players depositing. This is wrong IMO, because usually fish/losing players go busto with or without the sites help and they still scream RIG! RIG! RIG!. The fish that deposit will still keep depositing if they get help in one hand from the site and the fish who won't deposit after going busto will not deposit anymore even if they go busto after 100 hands or after 150 hands.

I don't think I should mention that if the site were the help the fish too often they would f*ck up the percentages in such a way that it will become detectable. But, nonetheless, to settle this, fine, I agree with you that the sites could do such a small rig that would MAYBE make them a few cents in time and basically will not affect the winning or losing players.

Going back to the statement, I would be surprised if a pro would really think the deal is rigged. You will most likely going to say to mean: it doesn't matter if it's rigged but they still win. This statement makes no sense. How can the players still win if it's rigged ? If the sites would rig their RNG, don't you think that players winnings would be affected in such a way that they would notice it ? I don't buy the idea that if a player that could make 10000$ a month will stand by quietly and accept the fact that they only win 1000-2000$ if they suspected rigging. I don't know who Leatherass is, maybe I misinterpreted his statement. Maybe he does believe that OLP is rigged, although I don't see him or have heard of him presenting evidence of such fact. I still think he made an unclear statement that basically says he doesn't believe big rigging is going on but it wouldn't surprise him to see a marginally unfair deal ( whatever that means ).

I suppose that we can all agree on the fact that if a deal were to be rigged in such a way that winnings/losses are affected ( basically players losing money unfairly on the long run ) it would be pretty easy to uncover.

"Online poker has been rigged up before"

You again give the example of a superuser that happened in the ub/ap scandal. This is cheating, not rigging. It was uncovered by work of people on this forum.

"Many ways they do it"

What ways ? So you don't think that they rig the RNG ? Ok. That's fine. What ways then ? And please don't quote past alleged cheatings that have been uncovered ( ub/ap -super user and bots at Ipoker, although that one is kind of in the middle of cheating because as far as I rembered Ipoker allowed bots back then, so basically you knew what you were getting into ) and sites involved in most likely rigging the RNG ( Lock Poker, that has dissapeared ).

Again, what ways ? Be more explicit, thank you.

You could start a thread yourself : WPN rigged - Real proof, and post it there.

You could upload your proof both here and there. I would really want to see it and I am pretty sure a lot of people as well. I really do encourage you to post the proof to back your claims and I am sure Bobo will too.

I no longer play online but I did start to post stuff awhile ago and stuff got deleted. I posted it in the wpn thread tho. I no longer have anything not even a computer. As for your other post. Lol ap/ub was rigged. Go look up the definition on google. Could also google alot of your other silly questions. I also disagree with alot of what you said. I would like to know how everyone knows that messing with the rng when needed will be caught in hand historys? I think there is away around everything imo. You just got to balance the number for long term. There is a bit of luck in everyhand. Most poker players know the small things do make a big difference.

.

The definition used ITT is altering hands dealt out to increase rake, not the catch all definition that would include scheming like at AP/UB. And this is why there's a rig containment thread: Riggies provide zero evidence of anything, and even combat evidence posted by others with dumb statements like "Well, I don't think that's true". It's a useless conversation to have because one side never admits fault and believes that their thoughts and beliefs have the same weight as facts and evidence when in fact they do not. Ah yes of course, this brand new and certainly not posted 50 times ITT idea that you must simply balance things out over the long term and you can do as much short term rigging as you want. It really is a simple idea...as long as your site only has one table and 9 players. When you get to a site as big as Stars (and I know you're going to interpret this as "defending" but try to understand I'm using them as an example because they're the biggest site by orders of magnitude) you have to keep track of hundreds of thousands of players, and not just that but their interactions with one another to make sure you don't rig things too much for some people so the numbers will be obviously off. When you get numbers that big it goes from easy tracking to a nightmare of different databases all keeping track of who was present for which rigged hands and thus needs to have some other, differently rigged hands happen that balance out the first rig, along with whatever criteria they use for the rigging in the first place.

Stars is a big company so let's pretend they successfully pulled this all off, why has not one programmer come forward? They'd need an absurd number of them to keep this machinery running smoothly but somehow all of them stay quiet, even after leaving the company? Surely there's a nice reward for whistleblowers one of those guys would love to claim, right?

It's basically Occam's razor: Either every site is rigged in stupid, predictable ways like winning streaks after depositing and no one's ever provided evidence, or the sites deal 52 random cards and take 5% of the money wagered. Real head scratcher.

I agree you can find rigs through hand histroys. I also think there is a way to rig it so it isnt detectable. I dont click on links. I also think alot of the rigs i said are far fetched. Fact is online poker has been rigged already glad you finally agree which makes this thread dumb. Just call it what it is. Riggies headquarters.

You should make an exception and click that link. Provided you can read you will be able to deduce something.

You're saying the same things over and over again. And you are also contradicting yourself in the bolded part. After all that people said to you this is all you have to say is the crap above ?

Dustin : Online poker is rigged!

Me and a few others : Proof ? And also gave arguments for why his alleged statements are wrong.

Dustin : Uhh, I don't have proof. ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ! Because Costa Rica...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IPlO0KSpjE

Well yeah, he's a riggie. This is what riggies do, they post meaningless nonsense and get in a huff that their meaningless nonsense is trapped in a containment thread, instead of individual threads for each of them that their brilliant ideas deserve. They have no time for looking at silly "evidence", they know in their hearts it's rigged and that's all that matters.

There's also somewhat of a trend that the more sure someone is rigging happens, the less computer literate they are. jungmit and Dustin seem to post from phones. Isn't it weird how the rigs are good enough to fool people with math degrees but not guys who have to fight their autocorrect when making a post?

Sorry your wrong and you cant prove it. Where are the facts. Just cause an employee hasnt come forward? I already said no facts here nor do I need them. I simple say things can be done. I think stars is a great site by the way. Programmers make these programs. Not sure if you are updated on what programs can do now days. One fact i do know is ap/ub was rigged.

Thanks! Nice to have respectful disagreement once in a while.

Naw thats what trolls do. Lol. Take a look at the header. It says is online poker rigged? Ap/ub was rigged end of story. That my prove. Suck it. Nobody cares bout no rng. This is an option thread see it says debate at the top. Computer literate? Just cause I chose to go outside and play instead of sitting behind a computer screen. I build my own computers and if you know anything you know stuff gets outdated fast so I sold it for 1500. LOL Happens to be the 6th one I built. I have had virses twice from clicking link on 2plus2. Cant prove it but i clicked link and boom.

FWIW, this thread has always been intended to be about RNGs/poker deals being rigged, whatever your own belief is of what it should be about.