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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,263 34.86%
No 5,283 56.44%
Undecided 815 8.71%
Voters: 9361. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-20-2016, 08:36 AM   #81601
xmoowoomx
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

2/5 on stars
Starting stack 850ish, built up from 300

I click "sit out next hand"

Get dealt 8-10 suited

Button raise to 15, I call 10
flop- 8 10 10

I check, he bets 35ish
turn- 5
I check, he bets 60ish
Reraise to 160

He snap shoves for 1.2k

I call

River, 5

Villan shows 5 5


Cant say its rigged or not...but when time and time again you see beats (both for and against) like this, hitting everones cards, .2%'s getting there by river....just feels off

But hey its math...it could always happen. right?
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Old 08-20-2016, 08:54 AM   #81602
jungmit
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis View Post
yes these live games are getting too darn tough :/
Where are these tough games u speak of?
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Old 08-20-2016, 11:04 AM   #81603
Obvious Shill Alt
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by xmoowoomx View Post
2/5 on stars
Starting stack 850ish, built up from 300

I click "sit out next hand"

Get dealt 8-10 suited

Button raise to 15, I call 10
You're supposed to sit out UTG, not in the BB.
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Old 08-20-2016, 11:14 AM   #81604
mr XXX
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy View Post
In general I think you will see more higher-variance higher-risk aggressive playing style online. Which makes luck a bigger factor. Of course over time skill still wins out but yes variance can be higher online. Particularly at the low stakes which aren't even available live.
That and ofcourse live play you have the person right beside you, which is a big thing. Pokerstars and other online platforms are for pros really, who have the bankroll and play the high stake games. But, i think even on a live tournament, if you put in 6000 or more players and a very low buy-in, you will get the same big variance like online tournaments.
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Old 08-21-2016, 07:10 PM   #81605
cashmoney111
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I just checked out ACR again and it still full of bots imo. Same mechanical styles. Until they clean this stuff up all the fish are gonna get destroyed and its ruining online poker. Its to bad online poker is dead and all these great pros are teaching poker just trying to make a living out of it some how cause they can't beat the online games anymore. Ivey, Polk, Galfond, etc. Even Polk admitted hes down 2 million over the last year. Its sad he just plays micros on twitch now. I wonder how much of that money he was cheated out of. Ivey down 9 million. Galfond has been even over the last 5 years. These guys are to good to be losing like this. Dwan quit online... I think Isildur might be winning and jungleman. Not sure who else crushes anymore. When guys that good are losing its time to debating the sites are rigged.

Then i listen to a radio show and Shawn Deeb said some russians were selling a device for 50k that give them a edge on the rng. So i guess his friends bought it and i guess it works. If people can hack bitcoin they can hack these costa rican rngs. It is literally hard to find a fair game anymore even in live games when money is involved. You just don't know if your being scammed or if its a fair game anymore.
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Old 08-21-2016, 07:48 PM   #81606
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

there are a ton of Portugese players, maybe bots???
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Old 08-21-2016, 07:57 PM   #81607
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

His point is that Portugal, using bots and Russian RnG tech, has taken millions from the top names in poker over the years. It gets even worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by cashmoney111 View Post
I just played on play money on acr i click the tab and played on it at 5/10 and they are telling me that it was real money. And they scammed me out of 400 dollars. I was just setting up stack and tile to grind 10nl on the beast. They said the ywere getting rid of bots and fixing the site so i figured i would come back. And this is what I come to. I get scammed out of 400 dollars. So i played play money and they took my money out of my account. I am completely done with online poker.

as apparently they also have found a way to get him to sit at the wrong tables when he is trying to play with play money. This shows how far the bots have advanced, as mind control is now part of their programming, so best to beware.

All the best.
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Old 08-21-2016, 09:08 PM   #81608
NewOldGuy
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

A fool and his money are soon parted.
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Old 08-22-2016, 11:16 AM   #81609
mr XXX
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

hey guys i just played a nice hand. I went in raised with AA from first position called in next by K 10.Then flop comes A 10 10 we check both, turn 10 check again river 4 and as you can imagine we went it all in. You need a **** amount of LUCK just pure luck to finish in the first places of a final table. Just stick to sit and gos imo.
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Old 08-22-2016, 11:26 AM   #81610
Monteroy
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

What were you hoping he had on the river that would go all-in after aggressively checking the flop and turn? Hoping he had the last ace instead of the last 10?

Post it in BBV and they can tell you that you should have folded the river, which would be one of the rare times the advice may actually apply.

All the best.
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Old 08-22-2016, 11:35 AM   #81611
mr XXX
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

ahahah ok pro... your the typical youtube comentator who sees all the cards and talks afterwards and plus fish dont forget its a tournament, blinds are coming up and you have to move in, you wont fold because you think he has the last ten and stay with 10-15 BBS...but what i am telling you know you wont understand.

Last edited by mr XXX; 08-22-2016 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 08-22-2016, 11:45 AM   #81612
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

You never said the stacks or blind levels in your initial post about the hand. You never said what type of tournament it was, yet your latest post suggests that we should have magically known it was a tournament with blind levels coming up and that the stacks were 10-15BBs. Sure, whatever. You also never said anything about the opponent (nit, maniac, whatever). You just posted an unverified single HH that was not even a bad beat (since you got nearly all your chips in bad). You then said stick to sit and gos because I assume these beats do not happen in that format, or something?

You also avoided answering the single question, which is not surprising. Here, I will ask it again so you can avoid it in a new (and hopefully more entertaining) manner

What were you hoping he had on the river, when all of a sudden everyone was going all in?

Also, riggies love youtube, not shills, so get your facts straight!


All the best.
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Old 08-22-2016, 12:00 PM   #81613
mr XXX
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Your ignorance amazes me really. If you werent blind you would see from a previous page that i support the non-rigged online poker but whatever...
He could have anything really from a pocket pair 22 to KK, a bluff and least likely the last ten, you dont fold that get real.I also mentioned tournaments in my post not cash games so maybe you dont read very well just stick to stupid critisism
Ok because i want you to learn something i will shair it with you.Sit and gos have less variance (less bad beats,bigger skill-lower luck factor) because of the less players and the slower blind levels and if you are a good player you will succeed. Tournaments however are a different story...
So stop saying that fold is an option people will laugh at you...

All the best.

Last edited by mr XXX; 08-22-2016 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 08-22-2016, 12:11 PM   #81614
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr XXX View Post
Your ignorance amazes me really. If you werent blind you would see from a previous page that i support the non-rigged online poker but whatever...
Heh, you think people remember you for some reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr XXX View Post
He could have anything really from a pocket pair 22 to KK, a bluff and least likely the last ten, you dont fold that get real.I also mentioned tournaments in my post not cash games so maybe you dont read very well just stick to stupid critisism
Yeah, you mentioned it was a tournament then said after it is better to stick to sit and gos which is another form of... tournament!

You did not even say who bet what on the river. Did he bet, did you go all-in and expect 22 to call? If so then why not do that earlier. However, if on a board of A 10 10 10 while holding AA you put him on the 10 (while going all-in) after every pocket pair and bluffs - then not quite sure what to say other than why fancy play against such loose players on earlier streets .



Quote:
Originally Posted by mr XXX View Post
Ok because i want you to learn something i will shair it with you.
Shairing is Cairing...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr XXX View Post
Sit and gos have less variance (less bad beats,bigger skill-lower luck factor) because of the less players and the slower blind levels and if you are a good player you will succeed. Tournaments however are a different story...
Stop playing "tournaments" then?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr XXX View Post
So stop saying that fold is an option people will laugh at you...
Hard to say whether fold is an option or not when you gave zero details on the betting and other factors of the hand!

I get it if you just wanted to whine - your kind likes doing that, but I am trying to help you do it better. Remember "Shairing is Cairing..."


All the best.
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Old 08-22-2016, 12:34 PM   #81615
mr XXX
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

If people dont remember me why you accuse me of something then without knowing you immature and ignorant fool.

Yes sng is another form of tournament but quite different if you dont know it then your a fish...

OH now you say i dont know fold or not what re you stupid? If its hard to say fold or not why the hell do you speak anyway?? poker pro?? Just ask more info and then critisize.

Just be sure to share your poker wisdom in your next book pro you ll be sure i buy it.
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Old 08-22-2016, 12:47 PM   #81616
Monteroy
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

The "fold the river" thing was a tongue in cheek reference to NVG forum where they always say "fold the river" on every hand, even if you went all-in pre-flop. I was hardly subtle about that reference, even though I knew you would not get it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Post it in BBV and they can tell you that you should have folded the river
I just chuckled because an argument could be made on this hand depending on factors you did not include (yet assumed everyone should know somehow) in your original post. Here, let me give you an alternative example of your hand with more details

Huge MTT with a top heavy payout structure, 8 players left, hero is 2nd in chips with 95 BBs, chip leader (good tournament player) has 102 BBs. Everyone else has 15BBs or less, including two players with under 3BBs. 30K for winner, 20K or so for 2nd 8th is 1500.

Hero raises AA pre-flop, all fold to the chip leader who calls. Flop ATT. Check flop. Turn 10 - check check. River 4 and chip leader bets all-in for effectively 90BBs+ as the rest of the small stacks watch and hope for a call. What does hero do here with AA? Snap call expecting to see 22 or a bluff?

Obviously that is an extreme situation, but again you never clarified any details in your original post to give the hand proper context. So with that in mind I challenge you to take your first post on this and cut and paste it an a strategy forum (you can choose which one since you have lots of definitions of tournaments), and what you will likely see is a request for more hand and opponent details. At that time you can call them youtube fish if it makes you feel better as well. In case you do not remember it, here it is

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr XXX View Post
hey guys i just played a nice hand. I went in raised with AA from first position called in next by K 10.Then flop comes A 10 10 we check both, turn 10 check again river 4 and as you can imagine we went it all in. You need a **** amount of LUCK just pure luck to finish in the first places of a final table. Just stick to sit and gos imo.

Post just that in the appropriate strategy forums and lets see what other players say about it! Post that in BBV for some real laughs (and lots of river fold suggestions).

All the best.

Last edited by Monteroy; 08-22-2016 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 08-22-2016, 01:06 PM   #81617
mr XXX
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Ok since you need special clarification i will make to you very clear.The example you just said is completely false and made out of ignorance.
When i mean tournament hand i mean everyone has 10 to 30 and one chip leader max 80-100 BBS.Thats pretty standard in a tournament table just before the bubble. Now go again back and rethink the hand of the hero with 20BBS without the 90 BBS bullxxxx.
Friend i did not post it to take answers of fold or call.This whole thread is for another purpose (rigged or not rigged).In a previous post i said online poker is not rigged and said luck is a huge factor in winning.This second post i made with the AA hand was to show an example of how lucky you should be to escape all the landmines and reach the final table.Thats it! if you wanna act like a pro and play smart guy do it in another section.
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Old 08-22-2016, 01:22 PM   #81618
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr XXX View Post
Ok since you need special clarification i will make to you very clear.The example you just said is completely false and made out of ignorance.
When i mean tournament hand i mean everyone has 10 to 30 and one chip leader max 80-100 BBS.Thats pretty standard in a tournament table just before the bubble. Now go again back and rethink the hand of the hero with 20BBS without the 90 BBS bullxxxx.
Friend i did not post it to take answers of fold or call.This whole thread is for another purpose (rigged or not rigged).In a previous post i said online poker is not rigged and said luck is a huge factor in winning.This second post i made with the AA hand was to show an example of how lucky you should be to escape all the landmines and reach the final table.Thats it! if you wanna act like a pro and play smart guy do it in another section.
read through this thread a bit. you should then realize that you are being yanked a bit although there is truth in some of the responses to your posts. if you are getting upset, you are in a trap. not a serious thread.
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Old 08-22-2016, 01:34 PM   #81619
Monteroy
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr XXX View Post
Ok since you need special clarification i will make to you very clear.The example you just said is completely false and made out of ignorance.
I said my example was extreme (though it showed using your general hand details when a fold would be viable). The point was you gave no details in your initial post to provide better context for the hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr XXX View Post
When i mean tournament hand i mean everyone has 10 to 30 and one chip leader max 80-100 BBS.Thats pretty standard in a tournament table just before the bubble.
So lets take a look at your first post again

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr XXX View Post
hey guys i just played a nice hand. I went in raised with AA from first position called in next by K 10.Then flop comes A 10 10 we check both, turn 10 check again river 4 and as you can imagine we went it all in. You need a **** amount of LUCK just pure luck to finish in the first places of a final table. Just stick to sit and gos imo.

Show me in that post how someone reading it should know

1) You are near the bubble
2) The stack sizes of the players involved in the hand
3) The tendencies of the opponent


Apparently that is all "standard" in your head because you played the hand, but without explaining that when posting about the hand it is impossible for anyone else to know the proper details to see whether a fold is possible on the river as played or not.

That is why I challenged you (one I know you would lack the courage to follow up on) to post your original post in a strategy forum. That is because you would be asked for the exact same details I mentioned. You can then call them fish for not reading your mind or knowing what is "standard."


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr XXX View Post
Friend i did not post it to take answers of fold or call.This whole thread is for another purpose (rigged or not rigged).In a previous post i said online poker is not rigged and said luck is a huge factor in winning.This second post i made with the AA hand was to show an example of how lucky you should be to escape all the landmines and reach the final table.Thats it! if you wanna act like a pro and play smart guy do it in another section.
OK, coolers happen in poker. People have to be lucky to win large field tournaments. Both are startling revelations, so thanks for letting us in on those.

Anyway, when posting hands in future, try to "shair" more complete information.

All the best.
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Old 08-22-2016, 02:21 PM   #81620
mr XXX
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I think i am talking with an idiotic online troll im out. You should be around 15 years old and havent got a proper beating yet.

All the best
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Old 08-22-2016, 03:43 PM   #81621
jungmit
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Here is the thing if u check your stats u will win or lose about the percentage u should. It's the way u lose online that makes people think it's rigged. Today I flop a set of 5's guy flops a set of 6's. 1hand later at another table I flop a set of 6's and a QJ6 board turn is a Q guy has QQ. So if u look up my stats I probably win or lose the amount of time I am supposed to. It's just the way u lose or win that makes people think it's rigged . When u lose with aces it's most times a player flopped a set for 2 outs. This is why people think it's rigged and probably why it is. But it can not be proven cuz your stats will be whar they should be. It's like this . If AA is a favorite and u for 45 and the flop is 459 then it runs out 23 for aces to win it looks fine cuz AA Is supposed to win. When the flop is 6J3 an I got 33 and it runs out spade spade and QQ hits a 4 card flush it's looks ok cuz QQ was the fav. It's the way people lose online that is so differnt then live that makes it looked rigged as hell
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Old 08-22-2016, 03:59 PM   #81622
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Turns out you can make it look as rigged as you want because even when someone "discovers" the rig they're still too horribly addicted to gambling to ever stop.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:40 AM   #81623
jungmit
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obvious Shill Alt View Post
Turns out you can make it look as rigged as you want because even when someone "discovers" the rig they're still too horribly addicted to gambling to ever stop.
U are correct. This is why I laugh when sites say if we were rigged no one would play here. Of course they would .. they play games now that they have an obv disadvantage at over and over.
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Old 08-23-2016, 07:52 PM   #81624
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I don't think it's online poker is rigged to make one single player loose, but i do definitely think there are some tweaks from time to time so the poker room get some money. I'm not saying this is 100% true, but i have some doubts sometimes. Here are some examples:

- Sometimes i'd play in a poker room like 888 or acr, see some dude sitting there for like 400 minutes, which is not possible for a human, and be doing the most retards calls or plays (not against me necessarily against other players, so my personal judgements isn't affected by tilt) while his hud stats display a solid tag. When the player gets reported as a bot, poker room only says oh we'll look into it, yet the same person is still there for weeks at the same low limits, why? How come a poker room can lock someone's account in 2 second if they shared accounts or if they stole money or collusion, yet ''can't'' detects bots ''all the time''? Maybe because these bots are made by the poker room? (again it's an hypothesis)

- When i deposit in a poker room, all the time, not once it didn't happen, the following day i keep getting monster hands and dealing to other the most ridiculous bad beats. Like i'd flop a set, someone would flop a better set and on the river i'd hit a quad. Or i'd flop the nut flush draw and someone will shove with a king high flush. I'd be running like god. Two days after i deposit, it goes totally the other way. Now forum and youtube poker 'pros' always claim it's 'variance', yet i don't play enough hands that variance is suppose to hit you in an upsing and downsing for 2 years so you can be breakeven after your stats display a solid tag, while articles claim 90% of poker players are losing players. I make money out of poker really because of rakeback, if it wasn't rakeback, i would be break even. Most of the money i've won in poker was a slow grind of a steady graph and all the losses are brutal all in where the money was in correctly for both players. This brings me to my last point:

- Poker rooms deal card with a random mathematic card generator, yet who can prove to the poker world if the programmer of that 'random' card deal isn't cheated a bit. The card generator randomly give 2 cards to seat 1, seat 2, etc.. It means sometimes you can be sitted in a seat that will fk your whole bankroll for a day or the one that will make it. But who tells me that the poker rooms don't purposely tweak the odds so that there are often big hands dealt to at least 2 players all the time, to make bigger pots and collect more rake. Plus it's good to do that for the recreational players since they have a chance to win.

Once again, all that i've wrote here is pure speculation based on my own experience. It doesn't mean that i will stop playing online poker, but i do sincerely believe there are some subtile things that poker rooms do that give them a little 0,005% edge on the long run that we can't know about. It's a million dollar business, no million dollar business is honest in this world or else it wouldn't be worth a million.
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Old 08-23-2016, 08:50 PM   #81625
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by i_am_a_j0ker View Post
- Sometimes i'd play in a poker room like 888 or acr, see some dude sitting there for like 400 minutes, which is not possible for a human, and be doing the most retards calls or plays (not against me necessarily against other players, so my personal judgements isn't affected by tilt) while his hud stats display a solid tag. When the player gets reported as a bot, poker room only says oh we'll look into it, yet the same person is still there for weeks at the same low limits, why? How come a poker room can lock someone's account in 2 second if they shared accounts or if they stole money or collusion, yet ''can't'' detects bots ''all the time''? Maybe because these bots are made by the poker room? (again it's an hypothesis)
Why would poker rooms use such easy to spot bots? Couldn't they make a lot more using bots or super user accounts in ways that are not so easily detected?

Not sure why playing "400 minutes" in a row is a sign of a bot? Lots of MTTs last longer than that strange measurement of time, so perhaps some of the bots you see are actually not bots.


Quote:
Originally Posted by i_am_a_j0ker View Post
- When i deposit in a poker room, all the time, not once it didn't happen, the following day i keep getting monster hands and dealing to other the most ridiculous bad beats. Like i'd flop a set, someone would flop a better set and on the river i'd hit a quad. Or i'd flop the nut flush draw and someone will shove with a king high flush. I'd be running like god. Two days after i deposit, it goes totally the other way.
Since as you say this happens all the time I suppose I would ask you why you have not exploited this pattern to make huge amounts of money. Max out all credit cards, borrow all the money you can and deposit as much as you can and play the highest limits possible on your boomswitch day (ie: the following day).

Two days later on your doomswitch day simply do some cover play at lower limits and laugh as all the bad beats hit you for $5 at a time while the day before you were making $5000+ every time when you won the same type of hands.


Quote:
Originally Posted by i_am_a_j0ker View Post
Now forum and youtube poker 'pros' always claim it's 'variance', yet i don't play enough hands that variance is suppose to hit you in an upsing and downsing for 2 years so you can be breakeven after your stats display a solid tag, while articles claim 90% of poker players are losing players. I make money out of poker really because of rakeback, if it wasn't rakeback, i would be break even. Most of the money i've won in poker was a slow grind of a steady graph and all the losses are brutal all in where the money was in correctly for both players.
Screw "variance." You identified an easy to exploit pattern of deposit/boomswitch/doomswitch that you can easily exploit. Just do it!

Why are you grinding for rakeback? As long as your beliefs and observations are accurate you can make a fortune with no risk!


Quote:
Originally Posted by i_am_a_j0ker View Post
This brings me to my last point:- Poker rooms deal card with a random mathematic card generator, yet who can prove to the poker world if the programmer of that 'random' card deal isn't cheated a bit.
Technically the programmer could, but apparently none of them every talk, even those no longer in the industry that did work for companies that died long ago. Some type of blood oath is likely involved.


Quote:
Originally Posted by i_am_a_j0ker View Post
The card generator randomly give 2 cards to seat 1, seat 2, etc.. It means sometimes you can be sitted in a seat that will fk your whole bankroll for a day or the one that will make it. But who tells me that the poker rooms don't purposely tweak the odds so that there are often big hands dealt to at least 2 players all the time, to make bigger pots and collect more rake. Plus it's good to do that for the recreational players since they have a chance to win.
Who cares? Just make a fortune with your deposit/doomswitch pattern.

Seriously, its as if you are saying that when you enter a casino the next day the ball will always land on a red number in roulette. Just bet red that day for lots of money!

Quote:
Originally Posted by i_am_a_j0ker View Post
Once again, all that i've wrote here is pure speculation based on my own experience. It doesn't mean that i will stop playing online poker, but i do sincerely believe there are some subtile things that poker rooms do that give them a little 0,005% edge on the long run that we can't know about. It's a million dollar business, no million dollar business is honest in this world or else it wouldn't be worth a million.
These are not "subtile" patterns you have noticed. They are even more crazy than the ones that existed in the bonus whoring era that players could exploit (and believe me those were genuinely fun).

If nothing else the next time you deposit just deposit 10x the amount and play 10x higher on your boomswitch day and then much lower on your doomswitch day to see if it works as you believe. When it does come back here and thank me for helping you break out of your rakeback grind! If it does not work then you can assume the industry is watching you and caught on to your sinister observation abilities.

All the best.
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