What relevance does any of that have? Riggie claims are dismissed because they refuse to provide a single shred of evidence to support their claims, and when asked to provide evidence rigtards start asking stupid, irrelevant questions like the ones you ask above. If you rigtards would stop acting like ******ed jackasses who don't understand basic logic and burden of proof, then you wouldn't be treated like the morons you are.

Yes you are.

I advise you to hug the first person you come into contact with!

It wasn't rigged, and now it is! On revolution lock network and party poker, player segregation is site rigging and is absolutely disgusting, boycotts should ensue.

Cause that's as far as he gets with his charm

1.) a.) Are you aware that there is more than one poker site? b.) When you say you believe online poker is rigged are you accusing all poker sites of being rigged?

2.) With respect to your statement regarding people being obligated to disagree with you, do you think people are being paid to post in this thread to disagree with you?

3.) Is there any other industry which you believe is systematically cheating its customers and/or investors?

Hi Insane, as one of the most civilized and reasonable posts I've heard in a long time from the 'riggie' side, I'm happy to answer that and will do so as best as possible. To be honest, a long ways back in this thread, I wrote out my reasons for why I started to and continue to post in this thread, but I don't expect or ask you to try and find that one post of the nearly 600 I've made total, so I'll try to repeat what I said then with any additions that come to mind.

I actually first came to this thread after a series on mind-boggling bad beats that coupled with a feeling I had had that when I had opponents all in at one particular site, it seemed they got endless lucky cards to survive (I play sitngos) whereas I almost always seemed to go one and out. I wondered then if it were possible that this site (and/or others) were manipulating cards at all to make the game more exciting for losing players or even even the odds a bit.

My hope was to find that someone had done some serious research/analysis to either prove or disprove what I was considering. If you go back to my very first posts here, you'll find me much more in the middle than I am now and there are one or two where I criticize someone (Monty, I think) for doing what you state--being overly critical/harsh on someone who was simply looking for answers. What I found was that all the people whose mode of replying struck me as reasonable (artiesmokes, subs, arouet, etc.) were on one side; the ones who whined, complained, name-called and absolutely refused to listen to any reason were almost entirely on the other. Also, I was amazed that not one riggie had taken the time to really do an in depth analysis of the data that's widely and cheaply available nor even had HEM or PT (and if they did, had no clue how to use it).

I was, and try for the most part to continue to be, polite and fair. I am not convinced that no rigging has ever taken place, but I do believe that anything of a serious nature would be quickly noticed as anything that seriously affected results would be statistically visible. I have no problem with people who wonder whether something's going on--it is so easy to think so when a bad beats and coolers happen as fast as they do online, but then one needs to stop and think about playing 200 - 1000 hands per hour vs 35 hands per hour live.

I come back here sometimes because an argument gets going that i'm involved in or interested in seeing play out and that leads me to check in and occasionally reply which brings me back again, ad infinitum. This process happens to anyone on either side--each visit makes you wonder what someone is going to say and if you reply you come back to see what people said to that reply and then you reply again and so on. Nothing sinister, simple human nature--the desire to be noticed, heard, and paid attention to.

Finally, I'll say that characters like blatantlyrigged do more to push any reasonable person towards not having anything to do with believing in rigging than anything else. His spew was so inane and so unwilling to engage reason that it made me (and likely others) feel extreme distaste towards having any connection to anything he espoused.

Hi again, I'll try hard to make this reply shorter. There is no necessary correlation other than the annoyance of people claiming 'real players' see this or do that (always implying noticing rigging). I'm as real as they get and have posted several of my screennames here in the past (and shortly after got harassed in chat by an observer). I don't dismiss every riggie, just those who make inane statements or who turn everything personal when I try to address ideas with my own thoughts/observations. And no, I don't post the 'winning player' thing every time i post; I only do so when people claim no one can win as though this is fact, or when riggies start attacking some of the nonriggies for not being winning players, as though that's relevant.

Finally, I want to let potential riggies know that i've been there. I once propped and was a breakeven or worse player living off of 100% rakeback. When I left that, I had a horrible run where my better than average but still unprofitable play nearly broke me. I could have blamed rigs (which I did think I saw) and given up. I didn't. I found a coach and worked my way from $5 sitngos to where I now play $50 to $250 sitngos successfully. it can be done and I want people to know that. Fair enough?

YOU don't know anything that you care enough about. Others apparently feel differently. Some post on cooking forums debating baking techniques for years without any pay and it's not for you to judge them. I am not referring to financial obligations and, frankly, it's ridiculous of you to imply or infer that I am. If someone finds posting here addictive, interesting, or simply amusing, that's up to them. If you know anything about debate, you would understand that attacking someone's motives has nothing to do with impugning or countering their arguments.

Believing that online poker is rigged = believing in the power of ionic bracelets, or feng shui.

Whether or not I need I hug has nothing to do with whether or not online poker is rigged. The statement "online poker is rigged" is not a statement of opinion, but I statement of fact. If it were true, than you should be able to prove it.

are those stt's or mttsng's? what stakes would one need to play in order to grind out the eqivilency of a small paycheck such as say, 4 to 500/week? i know it depends on the player's roi, but can you offer up some kind of answer? if not, that's cool, too. thanks.

your "first" post on two plus two is fighting with me? LOL. You created an account to question my motives for thinking online is rigged. Which affiliate are you in disguise Gary bhoy.

you see, the thing is nobody needs to be paid to volunteer there time to come in a thread dedicated to a topic and give an opinion on that topic but it takes a lot more effort and dedication to come in a thread for 5 plus years and counting to disect, defend and analyse those opinions with the same jargon, over and over again, for thousands of posts.

Anyhoo...As to appease Honey Bo Bo I will critisize the software, not the man.

Online Poker is rigged.....The End.....

Tompakee, probably.
You seem to grossly overestimate how "difficult" it is to go into a thread and post.

You steal money from the elderly and enjoy kicking puppies...The End

Hi Donk. I specialize in hu sitngos. The two key variables to answering your question will be ROI and volume, with volume being the biggest one as long as your ROI is positive. Another is a big enough bankroll to sustain you through swings (if you can't find the bankroll necessary, another option is to get staked). Finally, there's the question of playing normal vs turbo vs hypers (hypers are great for volume but bring roi down). With all that said, one could grind out 400 - 500 a week playing as low as $20 buy ins with decent volume (It's probably possible to even manage it lower, like $10s, but this would be a lot of grinding ) And, everything above is about hu sitngos, because that's really all i play.

Funny, what you do is give an opinion. What people who disagree with you do is, 'dissect, defend, and analyze'. I would call it, give opinion/give opinion. Of course very few riggies, if any, actually do 'analyze', so I will give you that.

much obliged for the input.

Ding ding ding ding ding!

Wow this **** poker site called titan bs poker is the most rigged bs **** site ever.

Here is my bankroll pattern over time:

Day 1-14: Increase very consistently every single day$

Day 14+: Inrease in beginning of the day, decrease a lot by adding 10 bad beats per good win situations.

So now it has reached the end of the day and everytime flush is on the table and I have a hand like set, TP etc, ppl are betting large and even going all in if i bother to call em until river. If I'm as lucky (or unlucky) to get a straight, the opponent who is a ****** dumb **** fish has higher straight. Where both needs both our cards to complete the straight. If I get flush it's beaten by higher flush.. I find it very fishy that everytime i have a hand, the opponent has it beaten.

So it's just controlled that the site wants me to lose and not make profit. I'm 1000000% convinced.

I don't know why people here are so dense that they can't get it. But everybody knows that it is common casino sense to let the players win in the beginning and lose in the end.

How much did you deposit, what games are you playing ?


If you are calling the river on a flush board with TP, would that be an explanation for why you lose sometimes ?

Absolute hand strength vs relative hand strength. Bad players think 'I have a straight, 2pair, whatever', and will never fold. This is even when they are facing action that means they are always beaten by any legitimate hand. Fish always think the other guy may be bluffing, even though it will make no sense to bluff most of these boards, and will call down anyway.

Is this what you're doing ?

Does everyone know this ? Are you sure ?

color me reactionary, but i'm only 999999% convinced.

Did you mean: 99.9999%?

Faen, you give the riggies a bad name.

So B&M casinos are rigged too?

What do you have to say to all the riggies holding out hope for when online poker will regulated like B&M? (even though it already is in a bunch of European countries).

Remind me again how the B&M casino knows that you're "new"? And why everyone wouldn't just always pretend to be new (ie; by getting a new player card every time) in order to ensure they win?

(Hint: Casinos don't have to be rigged^* to be ridiculously profitable, because, you know, math and stuff...)

Or maybe your thinking in this whole area of rigging is just a little... muddled?


^*Unless you consider slots and table games "rigged" by nature due to the house edge. In which case this is clearly acknowledged and well known.

i would say he is posting these walls of text for that exact reason. wonder why his posts are not moderated...

Moved hand history discussion over to Beginner Forum:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...layer-1315068/

no. just havin' some fun with the guy who said he was a million percent convinced of the rig.

You do realise that you have a fold button?