What? I can't tell if riggies are illiterate or trolls, but how could you read that post and come to that conclusion? Explain why you would need every players' hole cards. Based on...?

All more hole cards would do is give you a bigger sample.

Yes, I am an illiterate troll just speculating. I also just wanted to see who the biggest dh would be. Congrats..

Sorry. I thought it would give a more complete picture. My mistake. I'll go back to reading and rolling my eyes...

nobody is saying its rigged just that the rng is off. i am only 650 buyins below ev in my last 3100 9 mans on tilt.

Admitted in my original post that I'm not much of a math guy. I have a very basic understanding of SD and mostly get what's going on in the 2nd paragraph, but you lost me at confidence interval in the 1st paragraph...and it was close before that. But also, like I said originally, as frustrating as it is, if it were just the EV thing, I'd take it at face value and keep plugging along.

This is definitely something I thought about, the correlation to one group losing and the other winning, but I'm not sure one has to automatically = the other. I might argue that the majority of players in the pool fall somewhere in the middle.

It probably is affecting my mental state, but I'm not going to buy hands. I'm just about positive that's unethical.

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No i have no way of showing the rng is clean. So now what? For me to believe its rigged i need proof. Do you got any?

Here is one thing that never made sense though. UB/AP got busted for cheating by looking at hole cards. If you could just set the deck you dont need to see no hole cards.



I think Pokerstars released full hand histories but no one who thinks it rigged trusts the company who did the audit.

What patterns are we supposedly seeing in these cards?

1 - It's probably more than my computer can take right now to dig out my entire EV. I do however have those samples for this year alone, which counts 100BB games and hands on Full Tilt as well as Stars. It's similar, but a little more standard with most of the numbers right around the middle. Only 50% is right at 50% and 70% is right at 70% for the year. All others are in the 3-7% range.

2 - Your right, I just admitted in my last post that I considered that one might = the other, but wasn't positive that one definitely = the other. I haven't had much of a reason to look at these things previously, because I never noticed that almost all the regs I was sitting with had negative BB/100 and the biggest stack was the loosest player the majority of the time.

It just seems that all hell has broken loose and consistantly stayed on that pace since the 50BB games were instituted. I'm not making an accusation as much as asking what other people are seeing in these games. I'd be very happy to see other responses that show very normal samples in these games.

3 - My PT EV graph shows the same thing, but it doesn't tell me the specific hands. Unless you mean something different. But I also openly admit that EV calcs in total aren't a very good representation of the entire picture.

For example, I went through yet another mind blowing session today where my EV was actually slightly positive for a change. Things it did show...
- PFR 99, psycho min-3bets, I shove, he calls K2s. Hits his K.
- 66 vs 68 vs AA on 68J flop. 3 way all-in. A on the river.
- Same psycho as above. Does it again, but this time he has me crushed AJ vs JJ. Obviously this is the one I win so it looks like I play bad, but run good.
- 88 vs AA all-in on 89T flop. A on the turn.

Things EV didn't show
- I 3bet KK, villain calls. A on flop. He wins with A8o. (Says he had me on KK when he called too. Go figure.)
- Raise KK 6BB vs limpers. Get 1 call. Monotone flop A-hi. Villain has KQ with K of suit. Makes flush in a checked down pot.
- I raise KTs BTN, SB calls. Flops flush with Q5s on KJx monotone flop.
- 25BB stack limps BTN, I raise 5xBB 99. Flop 257r, bet and call. Villain has 1/3p bet left and hits trip 5s on turn with K5s before we get it in.
- 20BB stack, calls 3bet for 50% of stack with 98s. Flops flush+OESD draws before calling the rest off on a 1/2p bet on the flop.
- 3B AKs and get called in 2 spots. Flop A75. I bet $7 into a $12p and have $8 left. 1 caller. Turn is 6. He calls last $8 and turns over 66.

So yeah, EV is definitely only part of the equation at best, but it's the only quantifiable part because there's no way to measure the other stuff.

Scandalous, isn't it?

Last night I saw these two hands:

Hero Ah Js - Table: 2c 7d Th
Hero 7d 9c - Table: Kh Kc 2d

I sent them to a friend at MIT and asked, "What are the chances?"

Apparently, the probability of the first hand is 1 in 311,111,424

Amazingly, the probability of the second is exactly the same (what are the chances?)

And the probability of getting these two hands one after the other is a staggering 1 in 96,790,318,143,307,780.

How f**king rigged is that?

You guys been watching the WSOP? It's totally rigged for Darvin Moon. I mean you never see this stuff in online games, wtf.

Too bad in Wsop they have to "find" these hands to show out of thosands.

Online its every couple hands. one after another.

Beauties like this, I zero chance in this hand.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ah Ks]
dickdog11: raises 200 to 400
Dplay itCool: raises 600 to 1000
Hero: raises 3750 to 4750 and is all-in
dickdog11: calls 2030 and is all-in
Dplay itCool: calls 2855 and is all-in

Dplay itCool: shows [Ad Qd]
dickdog11: shows [Ac Qh]

*** FLOP *** [7h Qs 8c]
*** TURN *** [7h Qs 8c] [6h]
*** RIVER *** [7h Qs 8c 6h] [4c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero: shows [Ah Ks] (high card Ace)
Dplay itCool: shows [Ad Qd] (a pair of Queens)
Hero said, "**** you"
dickdog11: shows [Ac Qh] (a pair of Queens)



Next 88 < A2 Next KK < Ax

Would love to play live and have bad beat every hand. good luck.

Lol, just like you "found" that hand.

It's called "cherrypicking".




EDIT: You're real classy there in the chat too lol. It makes me laugh when people come unhinged the way you clearly do when somebody sucks out on you. Probably leads to you spewing off your chips for the next hour.

Please keep playing poker on line.

tilt dose need an audit. it is really getting to be bs. its not rigged for anyone but the numbers are not holding. 1st set of the day and i ran 6.5 buyins below ev for 12 sngs. the best was gettin aq into a10 for a chop hu then losing with qq to ak to the guy 2 hands later

Why are you surprised on the QQ hand? AK is a favourite over QQ. It has 6 outs, whereas QQ only has 2!

yep just love getting it in 2 times hu in 3 hands 1 time as a 73% fav then the other as a 56% fav to finish 2nd. the point is when u run 660 buyins below ev for 3k+ games its bs

Why do riggies almost always play tournaments?

Someone who sucks can run 660 buyins below EV in 660 games.

i wish u would enlighten me my bust out hands in that set were
ak<aq
ak<65
j10<aa bvb
qj<78o 3 handed hit a q and j but he spikes a 9 for str8
k2<aa bvb bubble
k2s<1010 bvb
35< 109 hu spike a 3 he redraws
a4<99 shv from btn hit a he catches 4 hearts i know i was behind but make a good push and the bb has 99 aa 1010 aj
k6<a3 bvb 3 handed
the whole aq a10 qq ak fiasco for 2nd
so either i make a standard push and the bb always has a monster or i get it in ahead and get sucked out on. its not rigged i said i just dont think the numbers are holding. nothing wrong with checking the rng.

aa<99

And the hilarious thing is that it was third time I played aces vs kings in that tourney, the other two I had the aces, and flopped the set, but on one of those, my opponent flopped the set of kings, too and ended up getting trapped after the flop. At least I was three for three with those hands tonight.

ydward well on the way to the banhammer

I'd be surprised if FTP wasn't one of the sites spade tested, in which case he probably did a more thorough job of testing their rng than anybody could. But you guys go ahead and keep ignoring that stuff and continue on believing what you want to believe.