Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,502 34.89%
No
5,607 55.86%
Undecided
929 9.25%

08-21-2010 , 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thStreetHog
Btw, who are the admitted FTP shills that have commented in this thread Gordias? Or did you just make that up because your word is completely meaningless thus being caught in a blatant lie is of no concern to you?? Just curious.
Typical shill tactic. Try to change the subject and attack the commentor. Toodleloo.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-21-2010 , 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusr82
Its only rigged if its meant to benefit certain individuals which im not saying it does, my point was the win %'s of hands seem wrong to me from what ive been seeing everyday at the tables.
Okay. Let me simplify things for you.

You say, a) the win %'s of hands are off and b) they do not benefit any one individual. So, under that assumption, follow this example:

Pretend that you and your opponent are the ONLY two players on Full Tilt. If AK loses to AQ an incorrect amount, one player would have to be the beneficiary otherwise it can not be off. This does not change as you add more players.

If you think it does, then you probably think the probability of being dealt AA changes as more players are dealt in the hand.

Think about that example until it makes sense or you're willing to admit you think it's rigged.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-21-2010 , 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordias
Typical shill tactic. Try to change the subject and attack the commentor. Toodleloo.
[ ] Tried to change the subject

[ ] Attacked you

[x] Simply asked you to expand on your accusation knowing you wouldnt answer because you are a liar. Just in case there are new posters that actually think your word means anything they now can see it for what its really worth, nothing.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-21-2010 , 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordias
Check out this blog. It's a real eye opener: http://fulltiltpokerrigged.blogspot....31942233872942
This blog is ****ing insane, please merge this thread with the rigtard mammoth thread asap
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-21-2010 , 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusr82
Like i said it depends on post flop variables including suit's etc hence why i said its around 28% mark meaning you should lose around 1 in 4 but this isnt the case

Actually it is the case. You have selective memory and are also just being kind of dumb. You remember the beats more because they are more noticeable. That's all it is. You are stubborn and dense and also wrong which is why you also get people making fun of you. But your observations are just stupid. Slow down, get some damn tracking software to really see what is happening in your hands, and stop saying the percentages are all wrong when they are not. This isn't something to have an opinion on so it is stupid to ask. It is super easy to check.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-21-2010 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop
A 3 outer is around 7%.Again, saying that it isn't the case implies that you've done more research than just saying "Oh, that seems wrong".

Poker Tracker and Hold 'em Manager both have free trials. Download them, import your hands, and filter your hands to see if 72% preflop favorites are losing vastly more often than they should.
Is this possible with HEM
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfie
Is this possible with HEM
There's a way to filter hands by preflop equities, I think. I don't have HEM installed right now (I'm on a mac) so I can't check for sure.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 12:18 AM
ok i do not have my sample size either but i have noticed a ton of 3 and 3 outers hitting both against me and for me and with others at the table in hands i am not involved in. so it has been noticeable to me lately.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 12:33 AM
this thread is on the verge of a merge.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 04:25 AM
In before merge.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 05:53 AM
Its your memory. Peoples emotions will affect there recall. If someone is tilted they will often mis-characterize what transpired so it fits with there emotional state.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 06:42 AM
people who defend this are beyond ****en stupid

I can call these 2 and 3 outers before they come its so ****en pathetic.

2 outer next 3 outer next case ace next case ace


and these faggits talk about sample size, its every ****en 5 minutes.

You can't ****en play 5 minutes with out a 3 or 2 outer.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 06:48 AM
skcu - Wow. If you can call them you must be a monstrously profitable player. This would be a huge advantage. Any tips for how I can more accurately work the pattern of 2 and 3-outers hitting into my game? I know it's probably difficult to describe precisely but if you can get me started I would love to work on this because I think the potential payoff would be huge.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 08:15 AM
These are even better, 3 people have an ace, I have a pocket pair, the case ace will still come lol its automatic.

Good luck trying to get case anything live in 3 out of 4 hands.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusr82
I do not have months of statistical information to back up any claims so im sure the flamers will have a field day, however its just something i have noticed as a regular sng player on full tilt particularly over the previous 3-4 months or so. The % just dont seem right. I am only interested in the opinions of regular ft sng players as imo there seems to be something wrong with their software and wondered if any others had noticed this.
I play plenty of SnG on FT, & my all-in ev is about right, so I reckon you got on the wrong end of 2 or 3 bad beats, which isn't an awful lot in anybody's language, & you are looking for some consolation. Wipe your mouth, battle on, build a sample, I'm sure you will have to agree with me then.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skcuSnawD
These are even better, 3 people have an ace, I have a pocket pair, the case ace will still come lol its automatic.

Good luck trying to get case anything live in 3 out of 4 hands.
I sure am glad that FTP is rigged for players like you to give your money to players like me.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 12:03 PM
It's not rigged, but it's crazy streaky. I go days when I bubble over and over with crazy river hits against me, then win way more than I should for weeks at a time.

Just because their software is questionable doesn't mean it's fixed.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 01:14 PM
Stinky - the times when you bubbled are when you had a shorter stack than your opponent. The hands leading up to that are just as much a factor as to why you were in a position the be knocked out in the first place. Think about it.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 01:25 PM
I hope this post will put some thought on the alleged criminality and collusion going on at PokerStars and other online poker sites, unproven as it will be I still hope you keep an open mind and make your own assumptions. They are opinions, they are my thoughts and you do not have to accept them. I am exercising my 1st Amendment right and this is what I have to say.

I quit online poker several months ago and was a high stakes ring game player at all the sites, I played daily and have seen success but there was always a feeling that something was not right. I questioned the RNG that Stars was using, I questioned the collusion aspect and I questioned the fact that maybe Stars might just have it rigged to get their 3% off the top.

The one thing that I kept seeing was that when I was heads up in a ring game with an opponent who had more money than I did and I clearly had the best of it the river card would magically give my opponent the win. It would award the win to him, I would be busto and hence go re-buy. This happened all the time in too many situations where I should have won and it just got to be too much. I poured over the data and hand calculations and just felt although still within the realm of possibilities that something just didn't feel right. The great author Malcolm Gladwell calls this feeling intuition and in his book "blink" talks about how those feelings are usually right.

It got me thinking.....

So I quit and I devoted myself over the last few months to investigating this topic of collusion, cheating, RNG's, the industry of gaming etc. Here are just my thoughts on this topic and they are open for discussion and I have so much more to show you all in more posts as to the proof of criminality in poker.

First of all PokerStars uses a company called Cigital, which provides security for the online gaming industry, one of their clients is the good people at World of Warcraft. In case you didn't know WOW has 8,000,000 members all paying $14 a month, so this is big business. There is cheating there as well. PokerStars allowed Cigital to test the randomness of their RNG but does not publish the results only saying it's above board and fair using some US born testing method. The head honcho at Cigital is Dr. Gary McGraw a very smart cyber security expert who is the Chief Technology Officer there who oversaw the RNG testing, I want you all to watch an interview from this man telling you that collusion in online poker happens and is unavoidable and I will let you come up with your own ideas about the rest of the interview. The point is he is smarter than you, knows more and is directly involved in the gaming industry. I think he would know. Focus on minute 2:20 of the interview.

The link is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkeWG...eature=related

Other things I think I know at this point which I can't prove ofcourse are the following (once again just a thought, don;t shoot me):

1. PokerStars, FullTilt and others need the 3% rake; to achieve that people must continually be buying in not cashing out. This is why you see strict cash out maximums. I truly believe they target players who have shown a willingness to re buy and bust those players, the players who get all in with not alot vs the opponent who has 4 times the money more often than not loses. Remember if the amount of money coming in to PokerStars is less than the money getting cashed out the model doesn't work. I would imagine Stars pays out 5% of what they take in and I'm certain they have a formula for keeping it at that number.

2. Would you play online blackjack if they said it was just as random as playing at the casino? The answer is hell no! But think about it, that's what your doing now. 99% of people regard online blackjack as some crooked rigged game that they would never play but that's what your already doing.

3. You cannot achieve true randomness in online poker. You have to program a computer to shuffle the cards and although you can get very very close to random you can't achieve it. It is not possible.

4. PokerStars and FullTilt are not subject to US laws, they do not operate their servers on US soil, they do not publish their P & L reports and you will have a very hard time finding out much about them. PokerStars probably makes as much as some Fortune 50 companies do, I mean WOW makes 1.3 billion yearly, don't you think Stars makes that much? Knowing that don't you think a company should disclose who the board of directors are? Where they are? How much they take in? Nope.....you'll never know because what they are doing is already illegal. My point is if they are already commiting a crime why wouldn't they go a little further? I mean christ the President lies, Enron goes under, we attack a country without weapons but ole PokerStars is all legit? Greed is there and present and people and companies and goverments lie all the time, they do too.

5. I think they produced without the person knowing online superstars like Sahamies and Tom Dwan. I think the sites need spokesman like that to sell the dream to all the fish out there. I mean Tom Dwan went from playing small SNG's to the highest stakes in a years time. I think they said hey this kid is young and would be a great poker ambassador to sell the dream to all the other 21 year olds. It would not be hard to push some pots Tom's way and allow him to become who he is today. Now that being said I think he is a great player and did get 2nd in a WSOP event, I think he is great. But if I had millions of dollars in the bank I would certainly play without fear in the tourneys and the genesis of all that began when FullTilt allowed him to become who he is. I maintain that Tom would have no knowledge of this.

6. How much do you think FullTilt Pro's get from FullTilt? They get something and I would imagine it's hefty, enough to have no fear and buy into every tournament, play any ring game they want and push everyone around. You think that's fair? I know people are going to have more money than the next guy but if these are the best players in the world and these are the people we see on tv marketing this machine than you should know that they are staked. They are selling you an idea of wealth through great tight/aggressive poker pay and yet they are staked. I mean let's talk about unfair advantages and I think that's one of them. If a baseball player get's accused of taking steroids than he's crucified because it creates an unfair advantage, I feel that when Tom Dwan gets a rebate check from FullTilt for $1,000,000 it creates an unfair advantage. Don't you?

7. How do Pro's make these incredible side bets like the one against Tom Dwan to win a bracelet at this years WSOP? Most people may not know but alot of pro's put up million dollar wagers of their own money that Tom would not win a bracelet. It makes me wonder how Daniel Negreaneau can make that million dollar side bet when his results over the last 2 years playing poker have been horrible. No tourney wins, hardly any tourney cashes and boundless blogs about how bad he's running. Yet he threw his money in. My point is that because he's in commercials for Stars, on tv, wrote a book and gets a check from Stars that that is what fuels his play. He's really just a rich poor player who can buy into anything. Once again the people that make these huge side bets got the money not from their stellar poker play but from endorsements and that is misleading to the people who are not in the know.

8. The style of play on shows like Poker After Dark, the PokersStars Big Game, GSN's High Stakes Poker is unlike anything you'll ever read in a poker book. I read Phil Hellmuth's Play Poker Like The Pro's and in it he talks about premium hands, his Top 10 hands. Pre flop play, post flop play and generally creating a tight/aggressive style. All other poker books mirror this in some way but check out an episode of one of those shows and you'll see a different game. Now I know they aren't goint to play like Phil say's but calling with any two cards? Raising with nothing, getting called and getting busted on tv is just gambling. My point is that you have 8 rich staked poker players endorsing the poker sites and all you see is gambling in essence. It's a fabrication. It's like watching arena football, amusing but not the real thing.

In closing I feel that the industry of online poker and where we are at with it today and what it sells to the young kids is an outright scam. I think young people should know that the landscape of poker is alot like Hollywood, you see Tom Cruise on tv but you just can't drive out to LA and make a movie no matter how big your dreams are. You might but most fail and lose thousands. The online poker world is comprised of criminal offshore companies making billions of dollars yearly sellling something illegal in the US. They do not report anything and you know nothing about them. They have created an almost cult like following by staking and paying young good looking men and woman to sell the dream. They make you think you can be Tom Dwan when in reality Tom Dwan was created and you'll only be depositing, never cashing out.

I know people will have rebuttals about this post and say I'm just mad but I am mad. I'm mad that I tried the best I could, deposited all I could, always got my money in right but lost. I cannot sit here and say I'm a horrible losing player because I don't think I am. I think people need to really look at the online game and ask themselves is it possible this is not entirely random? Is it possible there is collusion at my table? Is it possible I'm getting cheated by the house? The answer is you don't know. But in a casino the answer is no, the cards are random, the people are real and the house cannot screw you.

It's the only way to play poker.

I think Phil Ivey and Tom Dwan are great poker players but I think they recieve so much money from the sites that it allows them to play in manner that the average joe can't. I think side bets are a product of endoresments and staking and not the result of saving money from poker wins and that is misleading. There is a fear factor in cards, the entire game's foundation is based on bluffing and when your heads up with a guy who get's a million from Stars and is on tv he really isn't thinking about the money. My point is makes a difference, it's an unfair advantage and these unfair players sensationalize the game on TV and sell this bull**** to the masses only to line the pockets of the online poker sites.

It's a great business model.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 01:28 PM
[ ] epic first post


tl;dr

cliffs plz
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 01:29 PM
Your screenname alone is enough to stop me from reading this. Also, cliffs please

edit: I read it a bit and I'm getting the idea that this is just some guy whining about running bad and blaming it to faulty RNG and stuff, but a little more extensive than the average post
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 01:29 PM
Insert winning player's graph

/thread.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokersrigged23
3. You cannot achieve true randomness in online poker. You have to program a computer to shuffle the cards and although you can get very very close to random you can't achieve it. It is not possible.
Online poker shuffles are much more random than a live person shuffling the deck.

Why I am responding to rigged poster #2764568497, I'm not sure.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 01:33 PM
Very original post by the OP.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-22-2010 , 01:34 PM
Rabble rabble rabble
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
m