GGNetwork stole 5k$ - Internet Poker

Everyone who is playing on the network or is thinking about playing there should definetely read this, because it might happen to you too!:

After not playing on the network for a few years (I will get into that later, since it is not that relevant) I started playing on the GGnetwork at the beginning of 2017 again. I was a winner in the 5/10 & 10/20 games, but did some table selection, because of the ridicolous high rake.

After 1 or 2 months of playing I got a warning that I have been bumhunting, which is strictly forbidden on the site and if I would continue to do so I would get banned and my funds seized. Naively I decided to continue to play there and follow their rules. I started tables all the time and played anyone, pretty much never leaving a table until I quit my session. I played under the screenname TimsPhone (lesbian avatar) and anyone playing or observing those games can confirm this. During almost a year I can only think of 2 times where I quit a reg, because I had so much action elsewhere and I have been playing most days. While I was online I started every table on 5/10 & 10/20 and I am actually sure that this improved traffic at those stakes significantly.

On January 12th, 2018 I got logged off in the middle of a session, saying my account got disabled. (This already cost me, because I was in the middle of hands.) After writing them an E-Mail they told me I have not been following their rules, by "committing the act of bum hunting and and Predatory Behavior. As such, in accordance with the policy that we had outlined in our previous email, we will proceed to permanently lock your account. In addition, the balance that was locked in the table that you had unfairly profited from will be confiscated. The amount that was confiscated due to bumhunting will be distributed to the users who were adversely affected by your actions as compensation."

I am not exactly sure about the amount since I didn't check my balance at that time, but it was roughly 5k that they took out of my account. I asked them a few times to give me examples of breaking their rules, dates or at least the name of the player that got the refund. I always got the same E-Mail back, just with the addition that they can't provide me any more details. I obviously don't have any proof, but I am pretty sure they just saw that I have a high winrate and decided to ban me and kept some of my winnings.

I am not seeking sympathy, it was completely my fault. This network has so many redflags, including having had chinese superusers on NL200&400 in 2014/2015. Greed got the best of me.
But if you are currently playing there, please, consider cashing out or at least keep the minimum amount of money on there, your money is not save and they could steal it any time.
Also, are there any other regs who had the same fate? Given that I was the only one at 5/10 & 10/20 that actually didn't bumhunt I'm very curious.

tl;dr:
played nl1k&2k on ggnetwork
got a warning I shouldn't bumhunt
gave action to everyone
still got banned and my money taken
asked for proof that I breached the rules
they won't provide any

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01-31-2018 , 11:33 AM

pmarrsouth

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,123

Did they cash out any of your balance after they banned you?

Post all emails to and from the network/skin

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01-31-2018 , 01:05 PM

NINzent

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 922

My affiliate has access to my funds, moved the money immediately and cashed out for me. I don't know if and how I even would be able to without, since I was not able to access my account.

E-Mails:

Spoiler:

Dear TimsPhone,

We would like to inform that in a previous email of warning sent on the may 12th, we had outlined the security policy as well as point out the fact that you had violated our policy by committing the act of bum hunting. After the email of warning was sent; we had investigated the gameplay records of 'TimsPhone' after you had checked our email. However, when we had investigated your records, we had found that you had ignored our warning to recommit the act of bum hunting and Predatory Behavior. As such, in accordance with the policy that we had outlined in our previous email, we will proceed to permanently lock your account. In addition, the balance that was locked in the table that you had unfairly profited from will be confiscated. The amount that was confiscated due to bumhunting will be distributed to the users who were adversely affected by your actions as compensation.

We would like to inform you that you are no longer welcome to play on our network. If we discover that the corresponding user returned to sign-up and play on our network, then we will proceed to permanently lock and confiscate the funds of the user in accordance with our security protocol. We, at GGNetwork Security, are continuously striving to ensure a fair and safe environment for all our players.

Best Regards,

GGNetwork Security

Dear Security Team,
Can you give me some more details of the incident?
Because I did NOT bum hunt and trust me, most people on your network do. If you look at my history I played everyone who joined my table, was always opening new tables and trying to create action. During the time I was playing I started pretty much every table, again, check the records. Please give me the exact time and the players I was playing against and how my behavior was "bumhunty/predatory".
As I stated above, I was one of the few people who were willing to start new tables at 5/10 & 10/20 and play everyone who joined, without me I am pretty sure there is going to be a somewhat significant change in traffic on those stakes, please keep that in mind.
Also I would like to add that if you look at the game histories, I was not only always the first player to join the table, I was also ALWAYS the last player who left the table (unless I stopped my session).
This is very easy to look up. While every player from the Ukraine, Malta and Croatia on your network actually DID engage in bumhunty and predatory behaviour (always instantly leaving the table as soon as the mark left) I never did.
And please look up how much traffic there was when I was playing and when I was not, I created a LOT of action and tables. (To clarify: I am only talking about 5/10 and 10/20 since those are the only stakes I am playing.)
I really hope we will be able to resolve this in another way.

Kind regards

Dear TimsPhone,

The security team applies the network rules to all players of the network fairly, and due to the fact that its disclosure would may be a possibility of circumvention or abuse of the investigation, we are not allowed to disclose the detailed information about the investigation and its process. Therefore, please understand that we are not allowed to share the detailed information about the investigation and evidences. We ask for your understanding and cooperation regarding this issue.

Upon reviewing your entire game records, we had confirmed that you had engaged in the act of bum hunting. We had verified that you had targeted a specific user from your game records, and have collected enough evidence to prove this. In addition, we have sufficiently concluded from your records that you had left the tables to either avoid playing against specific opponents or to join other tables to target preferred players. As such, based on the results of our investigation, we had decided to ban your account from our network due to your participation in the act of bum hunting. The balance that was locked in the table that you had unfairly profited from will be confiscated. Our decision on this case is final and it will not be overturned. If we discover that the corresponding user returned to sign-up and play on our network, then we will proceed to permanently lock and confiscate the funds of the user in accordance with our security protocol.

Best Regards,

GGNetwork Security

Dear GGNetwork Security team,
You claim I was bumhunting, targeting and avoiding certain players, yet you can't give me an example or name one instance. Why? Because I created a lot of action and played everyone, just look at my game history! The 5000$ you distributed to other players, which you can't even name, was won by playing according to your rules.
As I said before, I support your choice to punish people who bumhunt and make recreational players feel uneasy, but it does NOT apply to me. LOOK AT MY GAME HISTORY!
Please rethink your decision or else I will have no other choice than to go public.
I would really like to resolve this in another way. Please check my game history to verify that I never breached any rules.

Kind regards

Dear TimsPhone,

Firstly, we would like to inform you that in our first contact of guidance and subsequent warning, we had explained the bum-hunting rule of GGNetwork’s policy. In addition, we had clearly explained our policy http://www.ggnetwork.com/security-and-ecology-agreement with regards to bum-hunting while attaching its exact word for word phrase within the email. However, we regret to inform you that you had repeated these actions and violated our policy.

As we have mentioned, we have sufficiently concluded from your records that you had left the tables to either avoid playing against specific opponents or to join other tables to target preferred players. In addition, due to the fact that its disclosure would may be a possibility of circumvention or abuse of the investigation, we are not allowed to disclose the detailed information about the investigation and its process. Based on the sufficient evidence and records, we would like to inform you that our decision will not be overturned. The balance that was locked in the table that you had unfairly profited from will be confiscated. In addition, the amount that was confiscated due to bum hunting will be distributed to the users who were adversely affected by your actions as compensation. If we discover that the corresponding user returned to sign-up and play on our network, then we will proceed to permanently lock and confiscate the funds of the user in accordance with our security protocol.

Best Regards,

GGNetwork Security

If you don't want to waste your time reading it, it's basicly me asking for proof and telling them that they're wrong and they copypastaing the same E-Mail over and over. I didn't even bother to reply to the last E-Mail.

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01-31-2018 , 01:26 PM

pmarrsouth

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,123

Who is your affiliate?

And what skin did you play on?

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01-31-2018 , 01:48 PM

Carl Trooper

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,681

Can confirm shady site.

Was Pmd by a rep asking if I wanted to play there. I stated I can’t since it doesn’t allow US players and rep said I can use a VPN , as others also use them.... and he would even help set it up.

Lol.

Probably wants me to use it , get caught and lose my $

Stay away.

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01-31-2018 , 02:05 PM

Bobo Fett

Carpe Diem

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 56,895

Would loooove a copy of that PM.

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01-31-2018 , 02:23 PM

MCAChiTown

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 3,532

I'm a little confused. Does anyone know if they discover that the corresponding user returned to sign-up and play on the network, if they will proceed to permanently lock and confiscate the funds of the user in accordance with their security protocol? They should have made that a little more clear.

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01-31-2018 , 02:34 PM

Carl Trooper

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,681

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

Would loooove a copy of that PM.

My bad an “affiliate”. Was a while ago. Just remember the GG name.

He’s already banned apparently. But prob set up another account.

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01-31-2018 , 02:46 PM

Bobo Fett

Carpe Diem

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 56,895

Thanks!

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01-31-2018 , 03:10 PM

#10

pmarrsouth

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,123

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCAChiTown

I thought that was clear from their emails - but their wording is terrible with using the words “corresponding user”. If you return to the network and are discovered, your account will be closed and all funds confiscated.

That’s standard for sites to have that btw

Quote

01-31-2018 , 04:16 PM

#11

MCAChiTown

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 3,532

Just a bad joke on my part pmarrsouth. I found it funny how they repeated it word for word in every response.

Quote

01-31-2018 , 04:38 PM

#12

pmarrsouth

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,123

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCAChiTown

Just a bad joke on my part pmarrsouth. I found it funny how they repeated it word for word in every response.

ah kk! I guess they are making it clear and stating their position on the matter so a "corresponding user" has no recourse if that user does decide to return.

pretty lol overall to seize funds for bumhunting. Ban from site and cashout funds sure, but the seizure is redic - hopefully that part will be overturned and OP will get his full balance

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01-31-2018 , 04:55 PM

#13

MCAChiTown

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 3,532

From the sounds of it he originally bumhunted and stopped after a warning. They likely realized he was taking too much money off the site anyway and decided to enforce a technicality associated with bumhunting to get rid of him, but not for actual egregious bumhunting. I agree that it would be nice to see all of the funds returned if what the OP says is completely true.

Quote

01-31-2018 , 05:40 PM

#14

NINzent

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 922

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmarrsouth

Who is your affiliate?

And what skin did you play on?

It's a private person, Skin was Snailpoker/AllNewPoker
Both are pretty irrelevant and unfortunately couldn't do much, since all the power is in GGnetworks hands

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCAChiTown

Even before the warning I really did not bumhunt as bad as most regs, just sometimes denied other regs HU action. After the warning I went into full run the site, never sit out mode, you can ask anyone who played the stakes I was playing. I do however have very little faith in getting my stolen money back, but least I can do is prevent other players from going through the same thing.

On a sidenote, does anyone know big asian poker communities where I could make this public?

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01-31-2018 , 09:10 PM

#15

Iampatzer

banned

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 5

Gg, gg network

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02-01-2018 , 03:47 AM

#16

Mr.DjiSamSoe

adept

Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 863

Quote:

Originally Posted by NINzent

It's a private person, Skin was Snailpoker/AllNewPoker
Both are pretty irrelevant

It is relevant, should've play on better/trusted skin like Natural 8 or Highstakes

Those two skins cater much Indonesian player esp the ANP-with software like Zynga-ish

But the thing is,if it's true you can get lock/banned because bum hunting,that would be ridiculous..I am thinking moving to Natural8..

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using 2+2 Forums

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02-01-2018 , 06:06 AM

#17

Kyyberi

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 54

Their rules: ”Predatory behavior is defined as an activity focused primarily on, but not limited to, exploiting others to gain monetary advantage.”

Pardon me GG, but isn’t that the whole idea of poker?

Quote

02-01-2018 , 08:43 AM

#18

NINzent

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 922

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.DjiSamSoe

Regarding this problem the skin you are on is irrelevant, since ggnetwork makes the decisions. It can happen to you on Natural8 just the same way as everywhere else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyyberi

How I (naively) understood is that they want to get rid of the hostile behavoir that is standard on most pokersites, where tables instantly fill once a rec joins and people instantly sit out once the rec busts.
Obviously they didn't enforce it on anyone who was doing it and only use it to steal peoples money

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02-01-2018 , 09:08 AM

#19

the4bettingmonk

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,596

Other thing is you'd be surprised how few accounts ever have more than 3-4k in them. Furthermore the term "predatory behaviour" is a ridiculously broad basis to ban someone's account.

Betfair previously used a similar term "spirit of the game" - in relation to a casino promotion - they lost the ruling. (Players took advantage of a bonus loophole)

Quote

02-01-2018 , 12:21 PM

#20

naggeri2

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 187

haha, you were lucky, GG stole 18k from me. The difference was that i played under AIA and cant remove my balance from GG, and affil was not able too

Quote

02-01-2018 , 12:27 PM

#21

naggeri2

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 187

For me the story was the following.
tl;dr:
played nl1k&2k on ggnetwork(juice poker)
got a warning I shouldn't bumhunt
gave action to everyone
still got banned but the allowed me to cashout
asked for proof that I breached the rules
they won't provide any
....
2 months later,
played nl1k&2k on ggnetwork(AIApoker)
DID NOT got any warning!!!
still got banned and my money taken(18 ****ing K)
asked for proof that I breached the rules
they won't provide any
asked AIA manager to do something, they cant do anything.

ohh forgot to mention, 18k was deposit, i did not win anything from GG on the second round.

obv i have all the mails but what can we do?

Quote

02-01-2018 , 01:19 PM

#22

NINzent

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 922

Oh jesus, I'm sorry to hear
What was your nickname?
When did you play?
Why didn't you make a thread?

Quote

02-02-2018 , 12:57 AM

#23

ChicagoJoey

Papi

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 15,464

I got a message from NINzent about what happened to him. As someone who lost money through those pieces of **** Muchospoker a few years back, this type of thing tilts the ever living **** out of me. NINzent mentioned i advertised GGNetwork/Natural8 on my pod. Outside of talking about how I've been messaged by agents a bunch to play on the site, I can't remember ever suggesting anyone play this site and haven't heard of GGnetwork until today. I would never recommend anyone EVER EVER play through a random indonesian skin lol, let's be smarter in 2018 my friends. Games are always really good somewhere for a reason and a big reason is you have to deal with dumb **** like this happening. With rake, agent fees, collusion, superusing, money stolen, etc having to be dealt with, you're better playing on a harder site often times.

Naggeri, give me more details on what happened and I'll see if I can help.

I wish more people messaged me like NINzent did, I usually know someone close to every poker site or am not very far removed from knowing someone. Or, I can always make a video about ****ed up **** poker sites are doing. I've helped a few people get back money in the past.

This rule of randomly banning and taking money from people without anything near clear parameters seems pretty ****ing ridiculous. I'm glad you got your money back NIN, I'm sure some people out there haven't been so lucky.

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02-02-2018 , 01:32 AM

#24

pmarrsouth

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,123

Quote:

Originally Posted by naggeri2

ohh forgot to mention, 18k was deposit, i did not win anything from GG on the second round.

obv i have all the mails but what can we do?

Post the emails.

While being banned from site #1 did you get the following, or something similar, in your email(s) from GGNetwork:

"We would like to inform you that you are no longer welcome to play on our network. If we discover that the corresponding user returned to sign-up and play on our network, then we will proceed to permanently lock and confiscate the funds of the user in accordance with our security protocol."

----

As an aside, playing through AIA is not safe either way:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...a-com-1688889/

Quote

02-02-2018 , 07:54 AM

#25

NINzent

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 922

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey

I remember you talking very positively about Natural8, which is in the same network. The skin was not an issue here. To clarify, I don't blame you for anything, I just thought it might be a good idea to get the word out, to avoid more damage to people.
To clarify, I did not get my money back, the 5k are still gone and "redistributed to the players I took advantage of". The difference to naggeri is that I was able to withdraw my remaining bankroll through my affiliate.

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