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Old Yesterday, 03:34 PM   #2851
pokzen
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Even if the PVI system broke even to 1.0; it would still mean that GG is effectively taking the winnings of good players and redistributing them back to the losing players. Money is back in play, and everyone can sit at the table longer and churn more rake for the site. Rinse and repeat.

This is the basic scam being paraded as if it's good for the players.

And I'm a fan of GG.
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Old Yesterday, 03:43 PM   #2852
Mickyb
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbitiousDreamer View Post
wow gg just flashed crashed on me for 2 mins. tried logging in said unstable server connection. its back on now
Same. May have been at exactly the same time.

Since logging back in all my player markings are missing and I had a table just close on me.
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Old Yesterday, 06:18 PM   #2853
AmbitiousDreamer
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

im deciding if I should take black octopus RB which puts u at 35%

I'm currently silver whale. trying to complete 275000 fish buffet points in 60 days ( which looks like the GOLD whale qaulifcation). I normally just play tourneys on GG. its not do-able unless I play some ALL in or Fold to generate. I'm doing it because the 100 hands promo. So aint tooo bad , but its a grind.

Looks like black whale is flat 50% RB. Do I have to be a platinum whale before I hit black whale? or after I finish this period I will be a black whale?
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Old Yesterday, 07:05 PM   #2854
Mickyb
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbitiousDreamer View Post
im deciding if I should take black octopus RB which puts u at 35%

I'm currently silver whale. trying to complete 275000 fish buffet points in 60 days ( which looks like the GOLD whale qaulifcation). I normally just play tourneys on GG. its not do-able unless I play some ALL in or Fold to generate. I'm doing it because the 100 hands promo. So aint tooo bad , but its a grind.

Looks like black whale is flat 50% RB. Do I have to be a platinum whale before I hit black whale? or after I finish this period I will be a black whale?
You have to finish Platinum Whale to get Black Whale
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Old Yesterday, 07:10 PM   #2855
KakiTee
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

nobody knows anything about "run 3 times" hands?

i just want an accurate database, but PT4 can't read those hands
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Old Yesterday, 07:42 PM   #2856
doctor877
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Originally Posted by KakiTee View Post
nobody knows anything about "run 3 times" hands?

i just want an accurate database, but PT4 can't read those hands
its 2020, accurate databases are loooooooong gone
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Old Yesterday, 10:11 PM   #2857
Ihooper88
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

I see that PT4 has started to show the rake for GG, is it accurate?
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Old Today, 12:20 AM   #2858
DingusEgg
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esa_Perse View Post
Personal value something I imagine. Basically it's a formula that makes sure winning be players get the minimum from the rb system.
I believe its Player Value Index
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Old Today, 12:28 AM   #2859
DingusEgg
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokzen View Post
Even if the PVI system broke even to 1.0; it would still mean that GG is effectively taking the winnings of good players and redistributing them back to the losing players. Money is back in play, and everyone can sit at the table longer and churn more rake for the site. Rinse and repeat.

This is the basic scam being paraded as if it's good for the players.

And I'm a fan of GG.
Thats pretty much what they are doing and I don't believe they deny it.

They aren't really taking winnings of good players, they are just redistributing some of the rake. Poker sites don't owe any player (winner or loser) rake back so to give those already winning less or losing a bit more rakeback to allow them to stay in the game seems like a good thing to me.

I certainly enjoy rakeback but have always felt that if I am relying on rakeback to be a profitable player, then I am simply not a profitable player and should probably work on my game.

When I started playing online poker there was no rakeback so I've always just felt that whatever I got was essentially a bonus and should not be used to determine my overall profitability.
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Old Today, 01:47 AM   #2860
CheckCheckFold
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by DingusEgg View Post
Thats pretty much what they are doing and I don't believe they deny it.

They aren't really taking winnings of good players, they are just redistributing some of the rake. Poker sites don't owe any player (winner or loser) rake back so to give those already winning less or losing a bit more rakeback to allow them to stay in the game seems like a good thing to me.

I certainly enjoy rakeback but have always felt that if I am relying on rakeback to be a profitable player, then I am simply not a profitable player and should probably work on my game.

When I started playing online poker there was no rakeback so I've always just felt that whatever I got was essentially a bonus and should not be used to determine my overall profitability.
That's not the point.

The point is they use a hidden formula and being completely opaque on what it does. Instead of being transparent and saying what PVI actually does, they try to deceive players. This is unethical and annoying.

As a user, I have no idea what my rakeback is even when GG says I have 50% rakeback because of blackwhale or what have you. No user have any idea what their rakeback is unless they spend time to guessitmate. Even then it's different for different game types and it can change any time.

What's the ****ing point of advertising x percentage but it actually ends up not x for any given user? And the user dont even know what it actually is?

That's like going shopping and the sign says 50% off. At checkout the receipt doesn't say what percent off at all. It just shows a seemingly random price. You ask the cashier, wtf? Cashier says they use a Customer Value Index. You say WTF! Next customer in line gets a different price.

THIS IS ****ED UP.

The fact that people are putting up with this **** shows the shitty state of poker industry right now.

If GG goal is to help losing players, there are many ways to do it without being deceitful and annoying. Simply give losing players deposit bonuses. Or simply tell people what exactly PVI is and each players PVI. Just don't be lying about 50% rakeback when it is clearly not.
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Old Today, 04:37 AM   #2861
Ninja1989
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

No one is forced to play there....

Any reg knows about PVI
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Old Today, 04:55 AM   #2862
easypil
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Hi all and sorry if it’s been asked before.. is there any hud working on Natural8 and/or hands review software?
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Old Today, 04:58 AM   #2863
Esa_Perse
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja1989 View Post
No one is forced to play there....

Any reg knows about PVI
So that makes the false advertising ok?
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Old Today, 07:13 AM   #2864
CheckCheckFold
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja1989 View Post
No one is forced to play there....

Any reg knows about PVI
this is a lazy useless argument
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Old Today, 12:30 PM   #2865
sturutter
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckCheckFold View Post
That's not the point.

The point is they use a hidden formula and being completely opaque on what it does. Instead of being transparent and saying what PVI actually does, they try to deceive players. This is unethical and annoying.

As a user, I have no idea what my rakeback is even when GG says I have 50% rakeback because of blackwhale or what have you. No user have any idea what their rakeback is unless they spend time to guessitmate. Even then it's different for different game types and it can change any time.

What's the ****ing point of advertising x percentage but it actually ends up not x for any given user? And the user dont even know what it actually is?

That's like going shopping and the sign says 50% off. At checkout the receipt doesn't say what percent off at all. It just shows a seemingly random price. You ask the cashier, wtf? Cashier says they use a Customer Value Index. You say WTF! Next customer in line gets a different price.

THIS IS ****ED UP.

The fact that people are putting up with this **** shows the shitty state of poker industry right now.

If GG goal is to help losing players, there are many ways to do it without being deceitful and annoying. Simply give losing players deposit bonuses. Or simply tell people what exactly PVI is and each players PVI. Just don't be lying about 50% rakeback when it is clearly not.

Massively agree. The fact that GG are happy to be misleading is not OK, and should represent a worry to people about the direction of the poker industry.

First of all, it is really important to differentiate between 1) high rake, and 2) a misleading rakeback system, as these two things sometimes become confused. High rake is greedy, and not good for us. However, GG are allowed to make the rake whatever they want, as long as it is as advertised. It is NOT any way deceitful or a scam. However, what is not "as advertised," and is not OK, is the rakeback system.

"But all regs know about PVI?"

I don't think it is necessarily true that most regs understand all the relevant information about PVI, but even if they did, GG must have reasons to be misleading. Against all regs knowing about PVI, I would suggest:

1) A group of regs on a forum or you who talk to regularly does not accurately reflect all regs.

2) Many regs may see beyond the disguise after a while, but may be misled at first.

I have heard of two cases of the most likely suffering of initial naiveness to PVI- two players who knew they would be down before rakeback, but judged they could be in profit after rakeback given GG's major agents advertise "60% flat rakeback," without mentioning the crucial concept of PVI. These two players then after a while couldn't work out why rakeback was not as much as they had thought it would be. In at least one case, that gap between what they thought was 60% rakeback, and what was actually 24% rakeback with a PVI of 0.4, meant that they were a losing player, as opposed to a winner after rakeback that the advertised 60% would have made them. A confusing, stressful losing period because of the deliberate deception of GG

3) Some regs will know broadly about PVI, but still be fooled by something like the new Black Shark fish wheel system being advertised as "60% flat rakeback." That sounds very much, given there is no explanation, like they will now be receiving 60%, not the 12%/24%/30% that it actually is.

It is really important to remember that GG, until May 2019, DID rig the fish wheel, doing everything they could to present it as being random, short of explicitly stating that it was random. They then made it "fair," but simply achieved the same, by changing the speed with which players with different PVIs got to it. Meanwhile, they presented it as if it was some major change. This is the level of deliberate misdirection which we are dealing with. It adds up to deciet, and something not far from a scam.
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Old Today, 12:35 PM   #2866
cephei
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

gg pvi is the new ongame essence. they claim fishes are getting better rewards but who knows, maybe gg is pocketing it all.
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