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Old 09-18-2020, 01:37 AM   #2826
megalomaniac23
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Don't think it will help, but I too had it crash somewhat often, and it randomly stopped.
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Old 09-18-2020, 08:15 AM   #2827
WnkyDnky
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruja_machko View Post
I am quite sure some nl500 Russian regs are part of some bot ring. They play completely unorthodox with super small sizings 3b pf, big sizings on flop in 3b pots which no one uses, they are super aggresive, they use donks in their lines, but who cares as long as they rake!
What do you think about the Albanians at 500nl? They all play the same, 3b/4b a ton for small sizes, use weird sizes postflop, I have had a few hands vs them where I really suspected they were colluding. They seem quite bad, I have them all marked as probable fish but they play every day and a lot of tables so I dont know.
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Old 09-18-2020, 02:23 PM   #2828
jeanchris
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by doctor877 View Post
I've tried all the fixes mentioned in this thread to help prevent the client from crashing on windows 10 and none of them has had any help. The only way I seem to be able to run the client without crashing is just completely disabling my 2nd monitor that is 4k res and only have laptop display enabled.

Obviously its impossible to grind poker on only one monitor so would appreciate if someone has a solution how to enable the 2nd monitor without it causing client to crash 5 times a day.
None.

Had same issue, you need all your monitors with same resolution in 4K.

So solution is to dump your laptop and get a desktop and two monitors running with exact same resolution and settings
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Old 09-19-2020, 08:17 AM   #2829
danfiu
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Hello

I am having technical difficulties while grinding on GGpoker. I notice very frequent client crashes(normally tables freeze and client doesnt respond or client just suddenly closes).

Anyone knows what I could do?

Thanks
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Old 09-19-2020, 01:08 PM   #2830
sturutter
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

If you feel that the games on GG are good, that the rakeback seems generous, but you find that cannot beat the games after rakeback, and can't quite work out why, this post is crucial.

There is an absolutely key misconception about PVI, which GG really get away with.

The misconception is that the average PVI is 1.

It is most definitely not. Part of the reason this misconception comes about is that the starting PVI is 1. It of course quickly changes. Think of all the PVI's you hear of, and read on here. Yes, we may hear from regs only, but fish make up only roughly 15% of the player pool, and their absolute max PVI is 2.0. My best guess is that the average PVI is 0.4, but I would bet my life it is no higher than 0.6.

Along with their deliberate hiding of PVI, and the absolutely crucial nature of it (a ton of regs would win after rakeback if their PVI was 1.0, but are losing after rakeback because their PVI is 0.4), the average PVI misconception is one of the true scummy things that GG do. The worst part is that on, say, a $1,000 fish wheel, it advertises the top $1,000 prize as "100% cashback." This is bad for two reasons:

1) It implies that everyone's PVI is 1.0. For a player with a PVI of 0.2, getting even the top prize is only 20% cashback, not 100% cashback.

Many people would know this. But very few are aware of the second.

2) Even if you allow them the leeway of "cashback" meaning "average cashback", this is NOT the case. That implies that the average PVI is 1.0, which it most definitely is not, and so is a deliberate misrepresentation.

A further misconception that some have is that they assume that someone that breaks even in the games has a PVI of 1.0. This is already wrong because of course breaking even after rake in a high rake game means you are performing far better than average.

However, some would then say, that if you break even before rake, you are indeed an average player, and so surely must have a PVI of 1.0. This is also not correct.

After briefly starting at 1.0, anyone who shows that they are a winner before rake (a better than average player) quickly gets moved down to 0.5 and below. The CEO of GG has many times admitted that GG is not meant for winning players, and does not want to produce winning players. The PVI system is deliberately designed, and parts of it well disguised, to make it impossible for almost everyone to win

And we haven't even yet mentioned the 1BB for the High hand jackpot, from which the average cashback is alot lower than people think.

Last edited by sturutter; 09-19-2020 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 09-19-2020, 02:15 PM   #2831
MangoBall
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

IS PVI affected in tournament rake or just cash
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Old 09-19-2020, 02:28 PM   #2832
jeanchris
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

is the 1BB jackpot bullshit calculated in HEM3 for rake paid?
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Old 09-19-2020, 04:59 PM   #2833
megalomaniac23
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by sturutter View Post
If you feel that the games on GG are good, that the rakeback seems generous, but you find that cannot beat the games after rakeback, and can't quite work out why, this post is crucial.

There is an absolutely key misconception about PVI, which GG really get away with.

The misconception is that the average PVI is 1.

It is most definitely not. Part of the reason this misconception comes about is that the starting PVI is 1. It of course quickly changes. Think of all the PVI's you hear of, and read on here. Yes, we may hear from regs only, but fish make up only roughly 15% of the player pool, and their absolute max PVI is 2.0. My best guess is that the average PVI is 0.4, but I would bet my life it is no higher than 0.6.

Along with their deliberate hiding of PVI, and the absolutely crucial nature of it (a ton of regs would win after rakeback if their PVI was 1.0, but are losing after rakeback because their PVI is 0.4), the average PVI misconception is one of the true scummy things that GG do. The worst part is that on, say, a $1,000 fish wheel, it advertises the top $1,000 prize as "100% cashback." This is bad for two reasons:

1) It implies that everyone's PVI is 1.0. For a player with a PVI of 0.2, getting even the top prize is only 20% cashback, not 100% cashback.

Many people would know this. But very few are aware of the second.

2) Even if you allow them the leeway of "cashback" meaning "average cashback", this is NOT the case. That implies that the average PVI is 1.0, which it most definitely is not, and so is a deliberate misrepresentation.

A further misconception that some have is that they assume that someone that breaks even in the games has a PVI of 1.0. This is already wrong because of course breaking even after rake in a high rake game means you are performing far better than average.

However, some would then say, that if you break even before rake, you are indeed an average player, and so surely must have a PVI of 1.0. This is also not correct.

After briefly starting at 1.0, anyone who shows that they are a winner before rake (a better than average player) quickly gets moved down to 0.5 and below. The CEO of GG has many times admitted that GG is not meant for winning players, and does not want to produce winning players. The PVI system is deliberately designed, and parts of it well disguised, to make it impossible for almost everyone to win

And we haven't even yet mentioned the 1BB for the High hand jackpot, from which the average cashback is alot lower than people think.
Post is spot on.
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Old 09-19-2020, 08:34 PM   #2834
danfiu
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

IMPORTANT

Im gathering information about client crash on GG network and to identify the bottleneck of the problem. If you experience client crash, please contact me here.
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Old 09-19-2020, 08:38 PM   #2835
jeanchris
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

I do.

My issues are probably related to 4K resolution. This seem to have been always an issue with GG software.

Usually software crash when I open replayer, pokercraft etc and have some tables, happens a few time a day.

More table opens worst it is usually
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Old 09-20-2020, 04:47 AM   #2836
Esa_Perse
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by danfiu View Post
IMPORTANT

Im gathering information about client crash on GG network and to identify the bottleneck of the problem. If you experience client crash, please contact me here.
I have issues with getting kicked out from the tables / client. It doesn't allways crash it just kicks me out.

And a question about the handhistories to trackers are those anonymous like party?
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Old 09-20-2020, 04:52 AM   #2837
maletaja81
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

I Play low MTT promotions for ranking also. Now i discovered that final event is 100$heats 2mil guranteed...
I do not know what GGpoker thinks, but formula sqrt(total prizepoool/place)*2 for first... isnt work
Winner of that event will get aproximately 3000 points. Small 5$winner gets 200 points...
So basically you are locked 1 event ranking winner...Even final table guys get very high in ranking...
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Old 09-20-2020, 05:58 AM   #2838
danfiu
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

I created this spreadsheet to be able to find out what could cause the crash on GG. It takes 5min to fill and I hope we can find a pattern together

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:35 AM   #2839
KakiTee
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

anyone happen to know if the guys at PT4 are going to fix so GG hands that have been "run 3 times" can be uploaded to DB?

or what are u guys doing about that?
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:42 AM   #2840
Hood
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by sturutter View Post
There is an absolutely key misconception about PVI, which GG really get away with.

The misconception is that the average PVI is 1.

It is most definitely not. Part of the reason this misconception comes about is that...
It's not simply a misconception. GGPoker explicitly state that PVI on average is 1. From the new Fish Party rewards page:

Quote:
Originally Posted by https://en.ggpoker.eu/promotions/fish-buffet/
Poker: On average, players will be rewarded 100 Fish Buffet points for every $1 paid in rake and fees.
Im not saying you're wrong, I'm just pointing out that this isn't really a player misconception - GG state up front that this is the case. So you are claiming GG is being dishonest.
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Old 09-21-2020, 03:27 AM   #2841
d2_e4
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood View Post
It's not simply a misconception. GGPoker explicitly state that PVI on average is 1. From the new Fish Party rewards page:



Im not saying you're wrong, I'm just pointing out that this isn't really a player misconception - GG state up front that this is the case. So you are claiming GG is being dishonest.

"On average, players will be rewarded 100 Fish Buffet points for every $1 paid in rake and fees."

I don't even understand what a claim like that might mean. Doesn't it depend on the PVI of the players contributing the rake? E.g. if Player A and Player B play a pot which is raked at $10, if they both have a PVI of 1, they will both receive 500 points, right? What if they both have a PVI of 0.5? Or 1.5?
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:54 AM   #2842
beastlord
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickyb View Post
Oh wow, the percentages have all changed on that page - when I looked before it maxed out at 50%, now it maxes out at 60%. Much happier now, and I guess this makes up for the loss of rakeback via affiliates.
There aren't affiliate rakeback anymore? What about those that offer "rake races"?
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:30 AM   #2843
Mickyb
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by sturutter View Post
fish make up only roughly 15% of the player pool
This sounds low to me - even if you intended it to mean that fish only account for 15% of play, as opposed to only 15% of (active) accounts belonging to fish.
I could believe that the mean PVI across all accounts is 1 but that those with lower PVI tend to play more.
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Old 09-21-2020, 07:30 AM   #2844
harry potter()
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Apologizes for dumb question !

But what does PVI stand for ?

Cheers
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Old 09-21-2020, 08:38 AM   #2845
Esa_Perse
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry potter() View Post
Apologizes for dumb question !

But what does PVI stand for ?

Cheers
Personal value something I imagine. Basically it's a formula that makes sure winning be players get the minimum from the rb system.
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:11 AM   #2846
Ninja1989
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4 View Post
"On average, players will be rewarded 100 Fish Buffet points for every $1 paid in rake and fees."

I don't even understand what a claim like that might mean. Doesn't it depend on the PVI of the players contributing the rake? E.g. if Player A and Player B play a pot which is raked at $10, if they both have a PVI of 1, they will both receive 500 points, right? What if they both have a PVI of 0.5? Or 1.5?
One gets 250. One gets 750
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:14 AM   #2847
d2_e4
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja1989 View Post
One gets 250. One gets 750
Why would they get different amounts if they both have a PVI of 0.5?

If you mean that the total 1000 points get distributed based on their relative PVI and they both get 500, that's an interesting theory, but there is no evidence it works that way. They could easily just get 250 each and the other 500 "disappears". But then if two 1.5 players get into the same situation do they both get 750? There is no information on how it works.
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:04 PM   #2848
pokzen
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

The player accepted insurances two times on Flop and Turn.


[Flop]
Outs: 8 (QdQhJsJdJcTsThTc) >> Odds: 2.7
Payout: $20.25
Premium: Payout / Odds = $7.50
[Turn]
Outs: 11 (QdQhJsJdJcTsThTc7d7h7c) >> Odds: 1.7
Payout: $7.51
Premium: Payout / Odds = $4.42


One of Outs (7c) was dropped on River, so the player succeeded the second insurance.
The payout was $7.51 and the premium ($7.50) for Flop insurance was deducted from the payout.
So, the player received $0.01 in this case

--------------------

OK someone explain this to me like I'm 2.

Villain has an 8-outer and hero takes insurance.

Villain improves to an 11-outer on the turn, and GG forces the second round of insurance on the terms above.

Villain hits his 11-outer, and hero receives a net payout of $0.01 for insurance.

Hero has the best of it all the way through, 85% and 75% (roughly) on the flop and turn, insures the hand for almost 25% of the total pot in premiums, and winds up with a penny.

How does that work?
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:55 PM   #2849
sturutter
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood View Post
It's not simply a misconception. GGPoker explicitly state that PVI on average is 1. From the new Fish Party rewards page:



Im not saying you're wrong, I'm just pointing out that this isn't really a player misconception - GG state up front that this is the case. So you are claiming GG is being dishonest.
It is indeed dishonest. I agree that the statement you have found is the same as saying 'The average PVI (per hand played) is 1. These are three ways of arguing this to be incorrect

1) That would mean that a player who breaks even before rakehas a PVI of 1.0. I have tracked PVI figures from the start of a new account, and that is not the case.

2) For a reasonable estimating process, think of the PVIs you as a reg have had, have read from regs on here, and have heard reg friends quote. They average far less than 1.0. Yes, that doesn't take into account fish, but they make up a small percentage of the player pool. However, then the fact that regs play alot more hands than fish makes the average PVI *per hand* (which is what the GG statistic refers to) far lower than 1.0. What actually lets down the average PVI is the cap at 2.0. Not that we would want this to be the case, but it would need the big losers to have much higher PVIs for the average to be 1.0

3) Think of the average lineup of a table at any point. This of course represents the PVI per hand played, not the PVI per account (which would be weighted up by alot of rarely active fish accounts). Its fair to say that the average lineup is at best 5 regs, one fish. I.e. its more often 6 regs, 0 fish than it is 4 regs, 2 fish. I think a very fair estimate of those 6 PVIs would be 0. 2, 0.2, 0.3, 0.5, 0.6, 2.0. The 2.0 for the fish may not even be that high. This overly fair estimate gives us an average PVI of 0.63.

For GG, dishonesty is not an unthinkable thing. They are in fact dishonest, or at the very least deliberately misleading, on the main fish wheel page. On the $1,000 fish wheel ($1,000 in the sense that it takes $1,000 of rake to get there if your PVI is 1.0, and the top prize is $1,000) it lists, for example, the $400 prize as being '40% cashback.' There isn't even an asterix to say, *this depends on PVI, and assumes an average PVI of 1* This is deliberately misleading, to the point of being dishonest.

There is another strong example of dishonesty from GG. Until about May 2019, there was no PVI system evident, but the fish wheel was completely rigged, depending on how you had done in the play making up that wheel. They effectively completely admitted this in an email of May 2019, talking about a change in the fish wheel. This was an unofficial PVI system, before the actual system. This definitely qualifies as deliberately misleading. Firstly, they know that presenting it like a casino fish wheel gives the implication that it is random. Worse, they had the same advertised probabilities, for example '1,500 in every 10,000 spins.' This as good as stated that it was random, which was a lie. After heavy criticism, they changed to what is now a random fish wheel, but, by changing the PVI system to slow the rate at which players accumulated points, they achieved EXACTLY the same outcome. For example, in the previous system, a player with a PVI of 0.3 would reach the fish wheel after the same amount of rake as everyone else, but would on average receive only 30% of the stated average prize. Now, they get the stated average prize, but it takes them 3.33 (1/0.3) times as much rake to get there. 30% of the average prize over time, EXACTLY the same outcome.

GG really highlighted that they were not afraid to be deceitful by sending an email to all players, stating that they were happy this meant 'fairness and equality for all players.' They knew fully well that they had found a different way of achieving the same thing, and that in fact nothing had changed.

Another example of GG being more than happy to be deliberately misleading is being happy for agents to advertise a '60% flat rakeback deal' Almost no agent even mentions the crucial asterix of *This depends on a well disguised PVI system. If you are a reg, PVI will mean that you in fact only receive 30%, probably as little as 12%, rakeback.
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Old 09-21-2020, 03:28 PM   #2850
AmbitiousDreamer
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

wow gg just flashed crashed on me for 2 mins. tried logging in said unstable server connection. its back on now
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