Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

SillySal didn't come to 2+2 to force FTP to return her money. We don't have that power. The only way she gets her money back is if FTP freely decides to return it.

Her real purpose in coming here was to force FTP to listen and hopefully respond. That's obviously happened and some sort of private discussion is now going on.

Private negotiations almost always are more productive when they remain private. That's why no one is talking: not FTP, not SillySal, not Mike, and not the unknown mediator who is probably in the middle of this.

Hopefully when they are done someone will tell us what happened and why. In the meantime we just have to be patient. As much as we like to think we are the center of the poker universe, this actually is none of our business. It's a private dispute between a poker room and an account holder.

This is very true Stellarwind. I also hope we get to hear more facts when the case is over. Only time will tell.

Guys why not go easy on her she is probably taking advice from a lawyer and she is not saying anything as that is the advice she was given, guilty or innocent. She has 47K hanging in the balance and I would follow his advice too.

Maybe someone simply used CopyBot to model and reproduce pokergirlz winning strategy?

Any updates?

I find it really hard to go either way here, remember in the last big bot scandal we had 4 players with identical stats and it turned out they played from the same location and some how they got cleared of everything and I thought there was absolutely no doubt about their guilt.

sillysal-

I originally posted the following in this thread on Oct 26 at 1PM (this is a thinly-veiled BRAG, inasmuch as I was the first of many to speculate about this):
At the time I made this post, I was only speculating based on two factors:

1. The substantive similarity in the circumstances of the two cases.
2. The stylistic similarity in the postings of the two OPs, i.e., you (sillysal) and BeatMe1.

I have only in the last two days revisited this thread and my original suspicions about you and BeatMe1 have only hardened. Admittedly, my suspicions are only based on circumstantial evidence, but in addition to my two reasons cited above we now also have the following:

1. You have admitted to knowing redgar3, who it has been proven is the same person as BeatMe1. Yet you have carefully answered this question about BeatMe1, which has been raised multiple times in this thread, by only admitting to know redgar3. I believe this is a conscious decision on your part to only make reference to redagr3 so that you can disassociate yourself from the BeatMe1 case in the eyes of this forum. Why would you do that? If you and BeatMe1/redgar3 are not the same person, you appear to have an on-going relationship. What is the nature and extent of that relationship? My belief is that if you're not one and the same, you are fellow female high-stakes LHE HU poker players at FTP who utilize the same sort of AI assistance to play and who consult/coordinate with each other.

2. Then there is the common tie to and obvious animosity toward Mr Gatorade/Crazy Mike. It's utterly fascinating that you and BeatMe1 both claim that Mr Gatorade/Crazy Mike has been "attacking", "harrassing", "accusing", etc., you for "years" in both this thread and the original BeatMe1 thread. The oddest thing about this, though, is that it sounds like BeatMe1 and MrGatorade/Crazy Mike have never met in person, and yet in this thread it sounds like you and MrGatorade/Crazy Mike have met in person. It's also obvious that you, BeatMe1 and Mr Gatorade/Crazy Mike are located somewhere in southern California based on the comments all of you have made regarding the Bicyle Casino and the San Diego area. Can you explain more fully the nature of your relationship with MrGatorade/Crazy Mike, and how it differs from the relationship between BeatMe1 and MrGatorade/Crazy Mike?

3. Your poker background/experience as described by you and others in this thread is strikingly similar to BeatMe1's avowed background in the other thread. Since you have admitted to knowing her, i.e., redgar3 aka BeatMe1, please explain to us how your poker backgrounds/experiences are dissimilar.

Lastly, there is the issue of this:

Yet earlier in this thread on at least two occasions that I could find, you categorically denied having two accounts at FTP. Why did you change your answer?

Honestly, I don't expect you to provide any direct or substantive answers to the questions or issues I have raised, nor to any of the other relevant questions raised by others since you made your last post in this thread. Surprise me!

I have a feeling that sooner or later we are going to hear that sillysal did have multiple accounts over the years but they were not active at the same time nor were they used to collude or play at the same time but bingo, violation of terms of service, take the money, end of story.

sillysal, you say your name is not Lisa, then why did you answer 'Lisa' on AIM when I asked you what your real name? Why did I once ask you a very specific question on AIM, yet have grego777 answer it in FT chat?

Im honestly not sure exactly what is going on here, but if you really didn't run a bot I'd urge you to come 100% clean, as the current sequence of events leaves you looking very shady right now.

Also, I know Gehrig IRL and he is definitely not trying to thin the field. I would take his word seriously, as he is well informed and won't pass judgment until he is sure of what he says.

Bump for resolution?

I too would like to know if there are any new developments.

I have received an e-mail from a consultant hired by FTP to review every aspect of the case.

He has stated that FTP has now, after receiving his full report, concluded finally all investigations and that, basically, the initial verdict and punishment stands. The case is closed.

The consultant recommended to FTP that they redistribute the seized funds to the victims.

And this consultant was an unbiased third-party?

Thanks Mike.


"a consultant hired by FTP to review every aspect of the case"


is there any reason why FT can't inform us of something as simple as this?
Seems weird that we hear of such stuff from MH who got an e-mail from somebody else about what FT is doing.

Microbob does this mean that she is 100% guilty?

Hopefully, we will soon hear from those whom sillysal victimized that they have received compensation from FTP.

What continues to mystify me is why sillysal, BeatMe1, ericjones, etc., continue to post these sob stories here when it should be quite evident that FTP is unlikely to be influenced by members of this forum in the conduct of its investigations of fraud and/or cheating. I've come to the conclusion that only a truly guilty person is going to waste their time pleading their case here since a truly innocent person would be making far better use of their time by pursuing whatever legal remedies are available.

Well, she's either guilty or she isn't.
To my mind this does not convince me 100% that she is guilty.

Mike has seen more of the evidence/data than the rest of us. I would be curious what he thinks the chances of her being guilty are although I understand if he doesn't wish to disclose his own personal opinion on it.

wahoo - we just had a poster a few days ago who had $83k mysteriously vanish from his account. After e-mailing FT a zillion times with zero responses his next move was to come here and ask what he should do.

We've had other 2+2'ers who had their funds locked on FTP who got their account unlocked..everything is fine...sorry for the inconvenience.

If my account was locked at FT or Stars or somewhere else and I had done nothing wrong and thought I was likely to be cleared of whatever it was they thought I did then I would not exactly be rushing to get legal counsel right away. That just seems extreme and unrealistic. And to say that anybody who doesn't do that is really likely to be guilty seems really extreme and unrealistic to me.

Why should they? FT security owes this forum nothing. Now I can understand if FT customers want an email or the like explaining the situation because they have some vested interest in the matter.

Don't get me wrong, I understand this forum has a lot of uses and the collective masses have righted some wrongs in various instances. But most of us as innocent bystanders should expect nothing in terms of an explanation.

BO

This just means that saying "we hired somebody to look into the case" is enough to steal 47K ? Who was the consultant ? I don't think they will tell us.

Well , they probably need the money. All the top pros want their share every month. And all the expensive TV ads all over the world. 50k every once in a while will certainly help a lot. And getting rid of a winner will make the fish last longer. This reminds me a lot of some back-gammon server that will just refuse to play winners because they are good. Must be bots after all. After AP and UB the next room to avoid. Which room is next ? Stars ?

It's up to them but if they have something to say I just think it makes more sense if they say it themselves.

They have reps on here. They are reading this thread. They even start their own threads on here to address other various issues/improvements at FT.

This is a gigantic thread that many people are curious about and they do seem interested in passing along some information or else they wouldn't have included Mike Haven in this at all.

They can share sensitive info with Mike. That seems fine to me.
But they don't need Mike to do their speaking for them and I just find that to be kind of weird.

I'm not quite sure how much of the consultant's e-mail I am allowed to make public. I will clarify that with him.

From a hard evidence pov, I am almost as much in the dark as you. The consultant has mentioned new and what seems to be highly relevant information that he has seen that I haven't.

With regard to the information that I saw, and the explanations for such that I received from sillysal, I still had some doubt that she was running a bot.

any reason why sillysal is not presenting those explanations in this thread?
There does seem to be the possibility that she hasn't been 100% forthcoming in all this.
By some of the reactions she's gotten around here I can hardly blame her but it seems like there might be a bit more to some of her evasiveness than just the general rudeness of the pack.

And I'm not even 100% sure she's been THAT evasive at all really. Just a hunch I guess which may be fueled by some of the accusations or interpretations made by gehrig and others.

A little effective comunication at key points during the process probably keeps threads like this in check.

There is a reason FT threads tend to get out of hand.
We don't have to look further than the thread about the account being locked, no explanation given, and no replies to emails while the person went out of their mind thinking they were hacked to see that.

Lack of communication is clearly a problem. Sure, Full Tilt owes the general public nothing. But they owe their customers more at times, and the appearance of serving customers well certainly has to be in their long term interest.

If sillysal was/is guilty obviously the outcome is fine.
These threads are as much about the process though (or more) than they are the outcomes at this point.

Surely one cannot argue the hours that other person had their account locked and no explanation given before finally being told "oh yeah... that was nothing, you can play again" by FT is an okay way of doing business.

There are clearly a faction of players who want to give Full Tilt more business than they currently do but who are frustrated by some things in the support/customer service area and cannot justify it at this point.
I would think Full Tilt would want that business also.


edit: bob, I agree that there was something that didn't always feel 100 percent forthcoming from sal and it probably got lost in the shuffle a bit. That said I wouldnt begrudge anyone reconsidering the publicness of any issue like this at any point regardless of guilt/innocence.

If she is guilty, then obviously she's going to try to give me reasonable explanations for the stats being what they were, in the hope that my contact with FTP would work to her advantage.

If she is innocent, she is going to give me explanations for the stats being what they were, because for a time I was a kind of middle-man, and both sides were, (apparently, to me), respecting my comments.

Having made the OP and, (definitely, imo), forced FTP to give a much higher priority to studying her case as thoroughly as possible, whether she is guilty or innocent, I can understand that she was "happy" to withdraw somewhat from the public debate. Her goal had been achieved, whatever we, here, wanted to read for our interest and/or amusement.

Maybe now that the case is finally closed for good, we will hear more from sillysal?