Sorry. I just stumbled on this thread. I haven't read it all but I went from: Wow this poor poster, FT's taking all her money, maybe I shouldn't sign up with them. to Hey maybe she's a cheater. Good job FT.
Now I'm back to Poor poster. This really really looks like a witch hunt.

I'm glad the bot statistic trolls have shown up to analyze some of this stuff, cause it appears neither party has given us enough evidence so far.

Agreed Bob. I feel a strange compulsion to inform those that think there is "no rakeback" on Stars

Where is Sillysal ?????

Where is FTP ?????

Do we have anything other than similar stats? is the use of advisory application OK unless you actually win?

Sparbot funny, I remember when the Poker academy had their pow wow in Las vegas a few months back. I have never seen so many tight scared players at a no limit table. They even admitted their best bot is very beatable but can be good practice for beginners lol.

I don't know why crazy mike or gehrig or anyone else who suspected this player of being a bot or multi-accounting couldn't have shared their ideas with us earlier.

Now we know a bit more and that a few people in those games have these opinions that some of them are playing freaky-similarly to players like beatme1 and others and I think it's great to get that much of it out there.

I just don't see what harm could have been done if gehrig or crazy mike or anyone else stated several days ago that they had been suspicious of sillysal's play for awhile and found her to be eerily similar to all these other players.

i didnt have any inside info until recently

once i had that i posted what is more or less publicly available information about pokergirl z which corroborates the inside info i have

i dont accuse ppl of things until im pretty [censored] sure

wrt to cenizo and rooster: i'm not accusing them of being bots but i posted their PT screens to hopefully get someone at FT's attention so an investigation can take place

I haven`t seen rooster in more than a month.

Also, WTF with cenizo, daurg, buying in for 3k always at 30 60, rooster I remember back when I saw him several times buying in for 5k at 50 100.

Daurg never came to my table ever, cenizo has come to my table once or twice and once asked me in observer chat if I wanted to play, and rooster came to my table a few times before when he was around.

rooster last played oct 20 unless i missed something while FT was down

This is an interesting point. It demonstrates how the evidence released so far is an illustration of what FTP knows rather than an actual standalone proof of guilt.

In this specific instance the possible discrepency doesn't matter. FTP has access to the hole cards and will be working at that level. It's not going to be Fred's overall PF stats versus Joe's overall PF stats. It's how does Fred play T6s versus how does Joe play T6s. But naturally they haven't shared that level of detail with us.

here is my question:

so what if 3 accounts had same stats?
I mean maybe the guy wanted RB or something, and then wanted a catchy name, so he signed his family up and had three accounts.

From what I understood, they charged him w/ botting.

Showing those stats is not enough (I should add, some of the stats are waaaay off by like more than 1 point).

That said, it really sounds shade b/c some regs who play called these guys out.

My guess: FT has no interest in screwing ppl over, and only ban ppl if they are fairly confident. There is no way they look at some pointless stats like PFR, VPIP, and close the case.

just to quote my earlier post...

Well the tone of this thread has certainly changed. No more “thieving FTP give sillysal her money back” comments. Perhaps this is a good lesson in allowing investigations to proceed before wading in against an obviously very honest poker site that is determined to weed out cheaters.

There is obviously other damning evidence that we have not seen yet and perhaps never will. Having seen other information it will be interesting to hear from Mike Haven whether he is comfortable with FTP’s decision to confiscate sillysal’s $47K.

I say well played FTP and if new players are looking for a trustworthy site to play and need rakeback you need look no further if you like an honest game.

The only thing I would say at this point is that FTP should post a detailed letter as to what information will or will not be given on a public forum such as this in future. It may stop people asking for information that is never going to be forthcoming. Also, what systems are in place for sillysal to challenge their decision because everybody should have that right.

Well played Fulltilt? I don't think so.
If Sal is cheater (and I am not completely convinced of that yet), what took them so long to catch her. How long did she bot for? It seems to me it went on for a long time if it did happen.
I think I read she has been there for 2 years and she is sitting with 47,000 in her account. What took them so long ot catch her. Badly played Fulltilt. High stakes HU should have been monitored a little closer in order to tell FT how wonderful they are. I would say mediocre job at best.

Perhaps group 2 are 'adviser' type bots, leaving the human to click the mouse? That means the most obvious bot-like timing/hang-up behaviour won't be seen.

It's pretty well known that HU Limit Holdem is the game in which the bots are strongest (and multi-handed deep-stack games the ones in which they are the weakest) - so I guess it pays for FTP to look for bots very aggressively amongst the high-stake HU limit players

How can you show you're not using a bot as an 'advisor' AI aide, with you clicking the mouse? At high enough stakes this would be well worth doing for a botter.

I don't think anyone is claiming you are running 12 unattended bots here, like the old school botters.

You are setting up straw men here, which never looks good when trying to make a case.

The process is in question more than the outcome. I don't think guilt or innocence was the cause of most concern here. For me and a lot of other posters, it was the way FT handled this situation. No communication with the accused, No disclosure of "facts" with the accused, No chance for the accused to argue his/her case.

You're being results oriented, imo.

The original concern about being accused and having an account frozen without being properly informed and updated went by the wayside once FT came out with their decision.

As you alluded to at the end of your post, most of us with concerns about the lack of an appeal process still have that concern, as many of us did in the BeatMe1 case as well. Guilt or innocence doesn't affect whether a person has the right to appeal a conviction in the court system, nor should it here.

WTF am I gonna do with 10000 "free silly sally" t-shirts?

cross out the word "free"

Bobo, I'm certainly not arguing against that point and have said so myself. FTP need to go that extra step now and convince everybody that we can appeal in some way should our accounts get suspended.

if i was silly sall and was innocent i would be all over this thread. if i was silly sall and was guilty id be doing what she is doing.

'cause if you lost $47k, arguing with a bunch of anonymous people who have no control over getting your money back would be your number one priority?

The number of posts she made in this post has no relationship with the fact whether she is guilty or not

if the proccess is more transparent then silly sal learns from her mistakes the first time she has a bunch of her accounts and monies seized