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Old 04-04-2011, 01:29 PM   #76
ih8pocketas
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

I recently had 2 unauthorized transactions over a 6 days span hit my account. After 2 days and about 6 attempts at calling the number, i finally got a hold of somebody who informed me it was a "glitch" in their system and they will reverse the charges. Took about 2 days got got my money credited back.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:37 PM   #77
SabaAba
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

I started the thread in NVG.
I'd like to re-iterate that I do not blame FTP for this. I have NEVER had deposit or Withdrawls from FTP go through this PMI company before. Also, the charges do not match ANY amounts that I had deposited.
This was also charged with my wife's name, so assuming they got that information from FTP, my wife has not played or deposited money onto FTP in over 18 months.

I think people started assuming this had a connection to FTP because a couple people had suggested that the only thing they have done that wasn't "legit" was make a deposit onto FTP. I believe I read that there were some people who got these charges who did not have a FTP account.

I'm hoping I'm right about FTP, and of course I'm not ignorant to think that they could potentially be involved somehow, however with all the evidence I have in my situation, I can't see the connection.

With that said, IF FTP has in fact used someone with the name PMI or other 3rd party vendors that this could be, hopefully they're doing some research on their end, I really hope they do address this ASAP.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:43 PM   #78
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SabaAba View Post
I started the thread in NVG.
I'd like to re-iterate that I do not blame FTP for this. I have NEVER had deposit or Withdrawls from FTP go through this PMI company before. Also, the charges do not match ANY amounts that I had deposited.
This was also charged with my wife's name, so assuming they got that information from FTP, my wife has not played or deposited money onto FTP in over 18 months.

I think people started assuming this had a connection to FTP because a couple people had suggested that the only thing they have done that wasn't "legit" was make a deposit onto FTP. I believe I read that there were some people who got these charges who did not have a FTP account.

I'm hoping I'm right about FTP, and of course I'm not ignorant to think that they could potentially be involved somehow, however with all the evidence I have in my situation, I can't see the connection.

With that said, IF FTP has in fact used someone with the name PMI or other 3rd party vendors that this could be, hopefully they're doing some research on their end, I really hope they do address this ASAP.
Have you even read any of the posts in this thread or any of the other threads about this issue? It's obviously related to ftp, hell one posters e-mail response from ftp even admits that they have used PMI as a processor.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:44 PM   #79
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ih8pocketas View Post
I recently had 2 unauthorized transactions over a 6 days span hit my account. After 2 days and about 6 attempts at calling the number, i finally got a hold of somebody who informed me it was a "glitch" in their system and they will reverse the charges. Took about 2 days got got my money credited back.
Thats how they keep the scam going. If you catch on they say "sorry it was a glitch and we will send your money back" and it looks like a simple mistake. Its the people who dont catch on that they make their money off of. People who dont catch on cant tell anyone about the shady activities they are doing.

Thats like being at a casino and having your wallet sitting next to you and some guy walking past picks it up....you see the guy do it and catch him and his excuse was "sorry i thought it was mine...you can have it back"...would you be okay with the fact you got your money back or should you be pissed at knowing he tried to steal from you and the only reason you got your money back was you caught him in the act.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:45 PM   #80
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SabaAba View Post
I started the thread in NVG.
I'd like to re-iterate that I do not blame FTP for this. I have NEVER had deposit or Withdrawls from FTP go through this PMI company before. Also, the charges do not match ANY amounts that I had deposited.
This was also charged with my wife's name, so assuming they got that information from FTP, my wife has not played or deposited money onto FTP in over 18 months.

I think people started assuming this had a connection to FTP because a couple people had suggested that the only thing they have done that wasn't "legit" was make a deposit onto FTP. I believe I read that there were some people who got these charges who did not have a FTP account.
I'm hoping I'm right about FTP, and of course I'm not ignorant to think that they could potentially be involved somehow, however with all the evidence I have in my situation, I can't see the connection.

With that said, IF FTP has in fact used someone with the name PMI or other 3rd party vendors that this could be, hopefully they're doing some research on their end, I really hope they do address this ASAP.
Gee what a shock, a shady company that does steal people's money with information from FT also steals from people who don't play on FT. ffs

True of nearly everyone who has had the problem with PMI.

Potentially all this means is that PMI got the information from FT 18 months ago.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:53 PM   #81
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

does PMI have anything to do with these e-mails and withdrawals FTP has recently sent me? are they the third party issues? the delay were 5-6 months...

Quote:
our 'Quick Deposit' transaction outlined below was successfully added to your Full Tilt Poker account.

However due to third party processor issues there has been a delay in debiting your bank account for this transaction.

TRANSACTION DETAILS
DATE

TIME (ET)

TRANSFER REF

TRANSFER AMOUNT
26 Nov 2010


$50.00

Your bank account... will be debited within 1-3 business days - please ensure that the appropriate funds are available.

Once debited, the transaction above will appear on your bank statement with the descriptor; "FTPayments".

If there are any additional transactions to be processed we will contact you in advance by email with the transaction details.

We apologize sincerely for any inconvenience - rest assured we are working as a priority to resolve these issues.

Sincerely,

Full Tilt Poker Support
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:56 PM   #82
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

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Originally Posted by walkinbacktopenna View Post
does PMI have anything to do with these e-mails and withdrawals FTP has recently sent me? are they the third party issues? the delay were 5-6 months...
No, what you are experiencing is just the delays most people have had since ~Nov. of last year due to DOJ processor closures in which FT continued to accept deposits (crediting them to your poker account) while not being able to debit them from your bank, they are just now starting to try and collect on legitimate deposits people made during the 'processor issue' period.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:58 PM   #83
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

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Originally Posted by SpaceGhost View Post
True of nearly everyone who has had the problem with PMI.
*edit* I might have missed your point. I'll leave the post stand for anyone who thinks this isn't FTP's problem, or that they shouldn't at least be doing SOMETHING about it.

Excellent. Please provide your supporting data. Please provide a list of "nearly everyone" so it can be compared to the 30+ paying customers of Full Tilt Poker that came forward and lost money to PMI.

PMI is obviously ripping people off on their own, but that still means Full Tile shared my (and at least 30 other people's -- see list and follow-up posts) banking information with a 3rd party processor (something they explicitly say that they don't do on the page where you provide them with your banking information, even though they know full well they do it), and then, when confronted with this information, they deny it.
  • PMI is bad.
  • PMI knows that they're doing this.
  • PMI, at least in some cases, is using exact amounts of FTP deposits to obscure detection.
  • FTP gave my info to PMI.
  • FTP takes no responsibility for doing so, despite promising not to do so.
So, again, since you're missing it, Full Tilt Poker shared my banking information in express violation of their own terms, and now takes no responsibility for that breech of trust.

Oh, sorry, I gave your bank account information to criminals.... ....good luck fixing it.

Last edited by The Palimax; 04-04-2011 at 02:01 PM. Reason: typos, disclaimer, potential pre-apology.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:04 PM   #84
ih8pocketas
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

I wonder how much $$$ PMI has made off this scam....i'm sure there's plenty of people that are getting slowly drained without knowing....
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:05 PM   #85
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Palimax View Post
*edit* I might have missed your point. I'll leave the post stand for anyone who thinks this isn't FTP's problem, or that they shouldn't at least be doing SOMETHING about it.

Excellent. Please provide your supporting data. Please provide a list of "nearly everyone" so it can be compared to the 30+ paying customers of Full Tile Poker that came forward and lost money to PMI.

PMI is obviously ripping people off on their own, but that still means Full Tile shared my (and at least 30 other people's -- see list and follow-up posts) banking information with a 3rd party processor (something they explicitly say that they don't do on the page where you provide them with your banking information, even though they know full well they do it), and then, when confronted with this information, they deny it.
  • PMI is bad.
  • PMI knows that they're doing this.
  • PMI, at least in some cases, is using exact amounts of FTP deposits to obscure detection.
  • FTP gave my info to PMI.
  • FTP takes no responsibility for doing so, despite promising not to do so.
So, again, since you're missing it, Full Tilt Poker shared my banking information in express violation of their own terms, and now takes no responsibility for that breech of trust.

Oh, sorry, I gave your bank account information to criminals.... ....good luck fixing it.
There have been multiple accounts of charges from PMI not matching past FT transaction amounts posted right here on 2+2 (my bad saying nearly all however, you are correct about that, I should have said MANY)
And if you think I'm going to go back and search them out you're nuts. I was refuting what that guy was trying to say (that it probably isn't FTs fault).

You're arguing with the wrong person anyway, read back through the thread, I've been one of the main posters saying that this problem with PMI IS FT's problem and should be addressed and rectified by them. I've even e-mailed Cardplayer mag. with a link to this thread to try and get the word out.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:15 PM   #86
Steve D
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

TWITTER is very very big among poker players . Everyone needs to post this link to every poker player and every poker entity/media that has TWITTER accounts so that this gets the VIRAL attention it needs. And then just maybe then it will be picked up as a story by some poker media outlet.

Bombard TWITTER replies to poker players (especially FTP pro's) with this link. Hell , bombard every TWITTER account associated with poker listing this felony rip off and link to this thread for more info/details
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:17 PM   #87
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGhost View Post
You're arguing with the wrong person anyway, read back through the thread, I've been one of the main posters saying that this problem with PMI IS FT's problem and should be addressed and rectified by them. I've even e-mailed Cardplayer mag. with a link to this thread to try and get the word out.
As I say in my edit, I missed your point. We agree that FTP needs to do something, even if its issue a useless apology. Right now they're denying something that's happening to their customers because they shared our banking info.

I understand that in some cases transactions match, and in some cases they don't. But the mere fact that some of them match is much, much, more than just dumb luck.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:22 PM   #88
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGhost View Post
No, what you are experiencing is just the delays most people have had since ~Nov. of last year due to DOJ processor closures in which FT continued to accept deposits (crediting them to your poker account) while not being able to debit them from your bank, they are just now starting to try and collect on legitimate deposits people made during the 'processor issue' period.
ty spaceghost. i guess i have avoided the PMI issue. knock on wood.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:27 PM   #89
The Palimax
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
TWITTER is very very big among poker players . Everyone needs to post this link to every poker player and every poker entity/media that has TWITTER accounts so that this gets the VIRAL attention it needs. And then just maybe then it will be picked up as a story by some poker media outlet.

Bombard TWITTER replies to poker players (especially FTP pro's) with this link. Hell , bombard every TWITTER account associated with poker listing this felony rip off and link to this thread for more info/details
Here's a link to this thread, nice an easy to remember.

bit . ly / PMIFTP
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:28 PM   #90
Steve D
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Folks. there is no doubt you all realize that FTP senior mgmt has probably conducted an internal investigation on this felony theft happening (to this day) to their customers/players. Again, who is to say that a FTP employee or some level of low to middle mgmt is not part of this criminal enterprise ring taken place here. (lets hope it is a former employee caught during this internal investigation if this was the case).

But FTP mgmt silence and non involvement is what is scary. If you have nothing to hide, come forward and tell everyone what is still happening so that ALL of FTP members can start checking their bank accounts. Let us know that you found the security breach, how you now have it corrected with future safe guards, that you are going after the former business partner of yours (FTP) that is stealing from your active customers monthly.

Something is FISHY about all of this BEYOND just the felony theft taken place.

And yes, PRESSURE on the NAME PRO's associated with FTP need to start happening if FTP mgmt is not stepping up to the plate.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:30 PM   #91
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

I'm only disappointed that it took three months to get some traction on this topic

Like some of the other posters mentioned, it this was UB, this place would have been on it like white on rice.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:33 PM   #92
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
TWITTER is very very big among poker players . Everyone needs to post this link to every poker player and every poker entity/media that has TWITTER accounts so that this gets the VIRAL attention it needs. And then just maybe then it will be picked up as a story by some poker media outlet.

Bombard TWITTER replies to poker players (especially FTP pro's) with this link. Hell , bombard every TWITTER account associated with poker listing this felony rip off and link to this thread for more info/details
This is a good idea. We should also get PokerNews to write an article on this. Although given their relationship with FTP, they may not do it. Does anyone have connections there?
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:37 PM   #93
Steve D
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

I am a newbie posting and do not know how to link this thread in Internet poker to a NEW THREAD in NVG that is titled better then 888xxxxx post that is currently in NVG

Maybe a thread in NVG linking this thread titled

"FTP and or business partner involved in active criminal ring stealing from customers bank accounts"

Now such a titled thread would be visited by everyone and catch the attention of many that may have power to do something more then what we are trying to do to bring awareness to the situation. I just do not have a clue how to do it.. can someone do this if indeed you feel it is a good idea.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:38 PM   #94
The Palimax
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

I've tried to redirect the 888 post here, as this seems to get the most traction from those having banking problems.

The NVG post didn't go anywhere in 3 months.

...but you're right, it may have something to do with the title -- which is why I chose this one.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:43 PM   #95
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ih8pocketas View Post
I recently had 2 unauthorized transactions over a 6 days span hit my account. After 2 days and about 6 attempts at calling the number, i finally got a hold of somebody who informed me it was a "glitch" in their system and they will reverse the charges. Took about 2 days got got my money credited back.
Sounds like the type of scam that has been around with credit cards for a long time. Protection for CCs is much stronger nowadays, but I got a $12.95 charge from some RandomInternetCompany.com a few years back. The website was full of air, but had a # that I called, left a nasty voicemail, and the charge was eventually reversed.

So they've got a phone #, they've got somebody who eventually might answer a phone and reverse your specific charges. A lot of people won't notice it though, and a lot of people won't make a huge effort, and they profit off of those people. Looks like this is a pretty damn ballsy operation though.



FTP needs to address this immediately. I don't know how they can do it without freaking out the poker community at large. Send emails to every customer telling them they need to get a new bank account? It would be worse for poker than UIGEA.

And how could PokerStars even avoid the backlash? Might be a small boon at first where FTP degens move there, but overall the poker community will be hurt.

This is bad.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:57 PM   #96
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixiterra View Post
Sounds like the type of scam that has been around with credit cards for a long time. Protection for CCs is much stronger nowadays, but I got a $12.95 charge from some RandomInternetCompany.com a few years back. The website was full of air, but had a # that I called, left a nasty voicemail, and the charge was eventually reversed.

So they've got a phone #, they've got somebody who eventually might answer a phone and reverse your specific charges. A lot of people won't notice it though, and a lot of people won't make a huge effort, and they profit off of those people. Looks like this is a pretty damn ballsy operation though.



FTP needs to address this immediately. I don't know how they can do it without freaking out the poker community at large. Send emails to every customer telling them they need to get a new bank account? It would be worse for poker than UIGEA.

And how could PokerStars even avoid the backlash? Might be a small boon at first where FTP degens move there, but overall the poker community will be hurt.

This is bad.
I got news for you, a large segment of the 'poker community' already is aware of it and anger is growing and backlash is coming so sitting with their thumbs up their collective backside is doing NOTHING to help the situation OR the customers who entrusted financial information and security to them.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:59 PM   #97
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

To be honest, I'm quite surprised it has taken as long as it has for something like this to happen (almost 5 years). These processors are KNOWINGLY breaking US federal laws. They know this before they set up shop, much like a drug dealer does. In other words, the risk and nature of the business doesn't attract the most upstanding businessmen. Eventually one of them is going to make a run.

Did you guys really think when you type in your SSN, banking details, etc., on the echeck form that this info wasn't going to be given to a third party? In fact, I'd be surprised if the info ever was retained by FT; it likely goes straight from the client to the third party processor (like it does for nearly everything else you purchase online).

Don't get me wrong - FT is handling this issue very poorly and in no way am I defending them. I'm just surprised by the shock. This was bound to happen. If you didn't think so, you have a poor understanding of the UIGEA.

Best of luck to you all. I'm sure it will get sorted out.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:09 PM   #98
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Quote:
Originally Posted by magent View Post
Don't get me wrong - FT is handling this issue very poorly and in no way am I defending them. I'm just surprised by the shock. This was bound to happen. If you didn't think so, you have a poor understanding of the UIGEA.
The shock is FTP's reaction, or lack thereof. And who knows, FTP may be completely powerless here. Who knows what exactly the relationship of FTP to payment processor is? Any response they give is going to cause a panic.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:11 PM   #99
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

In before Full Tilt (.......3+ months WTF)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixiterra View Post
FTP needs to address this immediately. I don't know how they can do it without freaking out the poker community at large. Send emails to every customer telling them they need to get a new bank account?
Well, I would be curious to know the volume of depositors that had their information sent through PMI. Obviously, this wouldn't be all depositors.

Really, any info at all from FTP would be helpful.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:14 PM   #100
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixiterra View Post
The shock is FTP's reaction, or lack thereof. And who knows, FTP may be completely powerless here. Who knows what exactly the relationship of FTP to payment processor is? Any response they give is going to cause a panic.
If any response (in your opinion) is going to cause panic, then why are you shocked they haven't responded?
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