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Old 06-03-2011, 12:49 PM   #776
Stardog75
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

I had 3 separate charges for $100 each....all of which were fraudulent and were all credited back to my account. Unfortunately, one of the credit backs to my account got reversed today. Calling the bank as soon as I can get away from work. Anyone else having similar issues with been credited and then it being reversed?
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Old 06-03-2011, 04:10 PM   #777
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

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Originally Posted by Stardog75 View Post
I had 3 separate charges for $100 each....all of which were fraudulent and were all credited back to my account. Unfortunately, one of the credit backs to my account got reversed today. Calling the bank as soon as I can get away from work. Anyone else having similar issues with been credited and then it being reversed?
Although the PMI saga appears mostly over, I updated your line on my spreadsheet to show 3x100, bank reversals, and a note that one of them was re-reversed.
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Old 06-03-2011, 05:54 PM   #778
Stardog75
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Sooooooooo....after talking to my bank, they were not able to collect one of my $100 charges back from PMI within 60 days of the charge so they reversed the credit to my account and told me I have to collect it from the payment processor myself. Anyone have any idea exactly WTF I can do now?
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:03 PM   #779
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Call PMI. It's your only hope. I have no idea if they still answer the phone.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:01 AM   #780
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

So now that more and more is being revealed about the illegitimacy of FT and the money problems they had/are having, anyone want to believe that maybe FT initiated and sanctioned the PMI scam? Just wondering if people might be changing their tune about FT?
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:37 AM   #781
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

I dont think they sanctioned the stealing of money out of peoples bank accounts but they sure gave out USA players bank details to some shady companies in order to try and get the money.
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:04 PM   #782
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

so by "solved", you mean the fraudulent charges have stopped, or most people got their money back?

also, to anyone hesitating to change bank account numbers: don't worry about it, it's trivial.

I had a bunch of mail stolen by an identity thief a while back while I was out of town. (evidently he got arrested before he got home with it, whew). I went in to my bank as soon as I found out and they cheerfully closed my accounts and opened new ones in about 5 minutes. Sympathetic doe eyes from the banker, no tough questions, free coffee.
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Old 06-30-2011, 01:44 PM   #783
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

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Originally Posted by gedanken View Post
so by "solved", you mean the fraudulent charges have stopped, or most people got their money back?
FTP figured out what happened, but not how.

Most people got their money back, but we don't have much data that suggests it happened without calling PMI directly and reporting the problem to them.
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Old 06-30-2011, 02:57 PM   #784
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

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I've seen the other thread as well and have the same sort of thoughts/questions.

It's certainly possible this is a rogue processor some sort, now trying to slip by innocuous looking $29.95 charges, but I'd be hesitant to say this is PMI, as I have good reason to believe the FTP story about PMI checks out -- bank submitted them on their behalf in an incorrect batch by error to the wrong processor for the wrong reasons.

$29.95 sounds like plain old fraud or "didn't realize you signed up for what you signed up for" sort of stuff...


No, I do not believe --'bank submitted them on their behalf in an incorrect batch by error to the wrong processor for the wrong reasons.'---

Maybe if it only happened once, but 3 freaking times?!?!!!!!??? And Full Tilt definitely knew about it after the first time.
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Old 06-30-2011, 02:58 PM   #785
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

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Originally Posted by The Palimax View Post
FTP figured out what happened, but not how.

Most people got their money back, but we don't have much data that suggests it happened without calling PMI directly and reporting the problem to them.
I dont agree with this statement. FT still never administered an email alert, never informed us what company PMI was or gave a contact info for them, and they never explained their relationship with the company (when it started, when it ended, why it ended). I still have serious questions about the PMI situation, but it has been quelled by the firestorm that was the indictments of black friday. However, these questions still need answers, and their may still be thousands of affected players out their who did not/ never knew about the fraudulent charges.
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:01 PM   #786
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

You can disagree, but FTP knows what happened - at least to the extent that they'll ever know.

FTP sent a batch of payments for processing. That batch got incorrectly marked Western Clear - per the email they sent people at the time. Some of that batch got mishandled by the bank, and ended up getting re-re-processed by PMI.

I'm not sure what you want FTP to tell us at this point.
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:07 PM   #787
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

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Originally Posted by poker viceroy View Post
So now that more and more is being revealed about the illegitimacy of FT and the money problems they had/are having, anyone want to believe that maybe FT initiated and sanctioned the PMI scam? Just wondering if people might be changing their tune about FT?

^^^
I will always believe this. 3 times they hit me before I changed account numbers. FT definitely knew that PMI was making fradulent charges to it's players in January, yet they never issued a warning or anything to anybody and ignored my e-mails.

In light of everything that has happened, the logical conclusion is that FT knew the schit was going to hit the fan, and they were trying to raise capital.

Are sealed indictments really that top secret? Do you really believe that FT had no prior knowledge of what Alderney was going to do yesterday?

The only people who have been ' Blindsided' by Black Friday and (Predictable?) Wednesday are the players.
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:15 PM   #788
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

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Originally Posted by poker viceroy View Post
So now that more and more is being revealed about the illegitimacy of FT and the money problems they had/are having, anyone want to believe that maybe FT initiated and sanctioned the PMI scam? Just wondering if people might be changing their tune about FT?
IMO, it's still a bit of a stretch.

Negligent nincompoops yes, complicit fraudsters, no.

Oh, and before I forget...

FT, téigh trasna ort féin.
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:20 PM   #789
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

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Originally Posted by The Palimax View Post
You can disagree, but FTP knows what happened - at least to the extent that they'll ever know.

FTP sent a batch of payments for processing. That batch got incorrectly marked Western Clear - per the email they sent people at the time. Some of that batch got mishandled by the bank, and ended up getting re-re-processed by PMI.

I'm not sure what you want FTP to tell us at this point.



And Full Tilt was down for " Scheduled Maintenance" most of yesterday. So yeah, I believe everything they tell us.

Back to the point, when I went to my bank for the PMI fiasco, I was going to initially put a ' stop payment' on PMI. My bank looked at the transactions and stated that each one was coded slightly different, and a stop payment would be insufficient, changing account numbers would be the only way to stop it.

My question is, if these were suppose to be legitimate transactions, why were they encrypted differently? To ensure that they went through? How can Full Tilt make a mistake in sending a batch of payments for processing for an amount that I never have deposited with them? It had been at least 2 years since my last deposit with FT.

IF Full Tilt actually sent e-mails like what you suggest they did, then this seems to be a flat out lie. The only logical conclusion is that FT was in on the scheme.
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:33 PM   #790
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

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My question is, if these were suppose to be legitimate transactions, why were they encrypted differently? To ensure that they went through? How can Full Tilt make a mistake in sending a batch of payments for processing for an amount that I never have deposited with them? It had been at least 2 years since my last deposit with FT.

IF Full Tilt actually sent e-mails like what you suggest they did, then this seems to be a flat out lie. The only logical conclusion is that FT was in on the scheme.
FTP didn't send emails about PMI.

FTP sent emails about the original Western Clear problem.

Quote:
The descriptor which will show on your bank statement for this deposit is "WESTERN CLEAR" and will differ from the descriptor originally communicated to you. The descriptor originally communicated to you was "MAS 8773094831"
The batch that got mishandled by the bank were some subset of the Western Clear batch.

PMI, like many other payment processors out there, looks shady because all of these processors have/had to do that during pre-BF to keep funds flowing.

A very small subset of people got charged anything other than duplicates of what they deposited in

I've got no love for FTP right now, and I had $600 in limbo because of this, but we've got all the story we're going to get. I received a series of very earnest mails from Doug with I honestly believe to be the truth - at least as it was relayed to him.

  • They should have been more responsive early.
  • I should have never had to make this thread.
  • They should have notified all their customers in the Western Clear batch.
  • They should have compensated us for our troubles.
  • They should have issued an earnest apology and a full explanation.
  • They should have openly pursued action against PMI and/or their bank*
...but there's no great mystery to unravel. An idiot at FTP's bank put some eggs in the wrong basket, and PMI just did what they're supposed to do - collect high risk funds transfers in the UIGA era. Idiots at FTP couldn't figure it out until we stuck it under their noses, and then idiots at FTP didn't manage to do enough of the right thing except repeat how they were looking into things and would have a full statement for us -- and then Black Friday happened. [We are actually mentioned in the final FTP updates...]
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:55 PM   #791
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

Ok, Palimax, fair enough. A lot of should have's there.

I guess my real problem is the fact that it happened 3 TIMES.

The facts as I see them,

1) PMI showed up on my bank statement 3 times- once in JAN,FEB, and March

2) According to several posters on 2+2, and in this thread, they e-mailed Full Tilt about this in January.

3) Full Tilt never notified me about PMI, which should have been at least after the second PMI transaction in Febuary.

4) Once is a mistake, Twice is a trend, 3 times is mother****ing problem.
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Old 07-01-2011, 01:05 AM   #792
poker viceroy
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

What about the payments that started in March that were changed from the PMI to PMIpayments or whatever it was? If they were legitimate transactions, why did PMI change its name?

If these were legitimate mistakes, why did PMI strike random dates once a month, instead of all transactions resulting on the 21st or something?

If these were legitimate transactions, how come PMI only refunded after we contacted them individually, and not refund the entire batch?

It seems like you have been given assurances that others have not. But I still have questions rattling around in my head that will never get answered.
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Old 07-01-2011, 04:11 PM   #793
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Re: FTP's Rogue Payment Processor PMI is back again! Double-Charged? Check your statements!

PMI is a shady processor. Full Tilt Poker never contracted them directly. The error was from FTP's bank.
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