Solid question, did anyone outside of then US get burned?

It seems likely that PMI processes funds legitimately for someone, and there's also a good chance that Full Tilt Poker tried to use them or one of their business partners sometime last year.

...but I'm not sure we have reports of legitimate transactions from them that later turned into duplicate transactions.

There appear to be two major types of activity.

• PMI charged people amounts matching old already-cleared deposits from a time period in which processors had heavy difficulties mid-late last year, and PMI then set these charges as recurring.
• PMI charged people seemingly random amounts, and set these charges as recurring in their system.

I still don't know why there is a thread for this here and in NVG, neither stickied, obv not combined.

Here are some cliffs I did in NVG, please feel free to add on:



-There is a company called PMI, which FTP was using as a third-party payment processor.

-At some point, PMI apparently went "rogue" and started withdrawing money from player's bank accounts that looked like deposits to FTP, but were not, essentially siphoning money from player's bank accounts.

- When first advised that one of their 3rd-party processors was illegally withdrawing funds, FTP's response was: "Sorry, we didn't authorize that, so we can't help you."

- According to some FTP reps, they are now looking into this. This possibly could be a major security breach or an inside job, or just a case of a bad processor going into business for themselves. By this point, it seems FTP is aware of the great numbers of their customers that were adversely affected.

- FTP has made no public statements, however, or warnings to their players to watch for fraudulent charges. Many 2 + 2 users are frustrated by this.

- There are other websites complaining about PMI. Many of the robbed were also FTP players, and it is unclear how many, if any, are aware of the threads on 2+2.

- If you are able to reach PMI, they will claim an "error" and reverse the charges. However, many people can't get through, and there are countless others who are not aware of threads like these and probably doing nothing.

- It is unclear atm if this affects non-US players

I read this and I missed the part where this leaves PMI unrelated to FT. Data that players gave to FT is pretty clearly leading to the fraudulent charges.

Right. They gave our info out so easily so now just give us their info

I guess what I'm trying to ask is if PMI charged your account in November of 2010 then was that a legitimate charge?

Or is it only charges from January of 2011 to now that are fraudulent?

Although some of it just conjecture, this is substantively correct.

It's unclear what the original FTP/PMI relationship was - if they were indeed a 3rd party processor directly working for Full Tilt Poker but DBA as another entity; or if perhaps they were a 4th party sub-contracted; or if somewhere along the line there was a loss of data. There are numerous other scenarios, but most of them are shark-falling-from-sky likely.

In my particular case, I never had a legitimate transaction from PMI -- but to be fair, "PMI" is just a descriptor used when processing the ACH transaction. It's certainly possible that at some point I had a transaction from the company that later used a descriptor of "PMI SALE" and "PMI 8888758035" on later fraudulent transactions.

If "PMI" had never included their 888 number on their first two sets of transactions, we'd probably all still be scratching our heads and wondering where our money went -- although to be fair, we don't know a heck of a lot about them now.

Some info has been posted, but it hasn't been vetted for authenticity. I can't say for certain what their actual 10-digit processor number is, or who their actual bank is.

"...and never share your information with any third parties."

Has anyone just closed the account that was being "robbed" yet?

HOW is this not stickied?

After believing I had blocked them last month and then seeing this month's transaction, I was going to, yes - but I've got a lot of things tied to this banking account. It'd be...difficult...to up and close it.

People who have been hit: are any of you non-US players (ie. bank acct's based outside the US)?

Would also like to know this

just want to post that thanks to cardrunners doing a PSA on this thread, and thanks to OP, I found 3 different $100 withdrawals by PMI dating, 3/31, 2/23 and 1/18.

Hope this gets resolved soon. Probably closing my bank account tomorrow...

Now I know where to not deposit my money ever if one cannot get a straight answer from customer service...

I just sent this to someone via PM, so I thought I'd share it.

At last count, FTP is still in denial mode, at least though normal customer service/cashier emails.

If you call the 8888758035 number, it'll likely ring endlessly or go to voicemail. They will, however, eventually pick up the phone. A quick conversation of:

"I have a series of unauthorized transactions from you."
"What's your name?"
<tell them>
"Are the last four digits of your account XXXX?"
"Yes."
"Oh, I have a note here that says those were in error, and we'll credit your account in a few days. Call your bank or call us back if you haven't received it in 3-4 days."

...has had great success in getting money returned.

I hope we see some information from FTPSean since we're expecting it: "Soon"

...although I joked to a friend of mine (who also works for a giant corporation) in a live game about what "soon" meant to corporate legal departments. We figured Q1 2012.

just adding my name to the list of PMI victims... but I also wanted to note that FTilt is also making unauthorized withdrawals to my account. doing an Ftilt google search gives indication that vensure credit union is behind this... http://www.vensurefcu.org/Pages/faqs.aspx

What evidence have you seen in support of the highlighted belief and related assertion of fact?

_________

Please, someone who has been affected by this (I haven't been): Call the FBI. Only a tiny fraction of those affected are going to know what to do, and the perpetrators are going to get away with it if everyone simply tries to get his own money back and then figures it's over. As poker players we're sort of second class citizens, it's true, but the FBI is pretty unlikely to ignore a bank fraud of this magnitude. They are equipped to handle it while we are not (and Tilt is just covering its own ass).

My question for the PMI person on the phone would be:

"So, if you have a note in front of you that says the charges were in error, why haven't you already credited my account? Why did I have to call to get said error corrected if you had the information right in front of you?"

Ridiculous, they are obviously doing the back crediting so that they don't get reported to autorities/regulators so that they can keep their little cash stealing scheme going on with those who are simply overlooking the charges and not questioning them. MAJOR CRIME GOING ON and this thread STILL isn't stickied.

How PMI is still in business is beyond me. By now hundreds if not thousands of complaints/charge backs should have been made by customers who were effected. Federal investigation is probably underway already.

I think we need to try and narrow this thing down. It is clear that we all HAVE FT accounts. What else is similar?

I think it is safe to say it is only American's being affected. I say this because alot of people have asked if other non-american players have been affected and nobody has said that they have been.

It seems like the banks have little to no coincidence. I use Sov and I have seen some people using CH or BOA. So i think we can rule out the bank.

What about deposit date. I do not know if we can use this because it seems that some people's transactions do not equal the amount taken by PMI. Can we try and confirm this. Can everyone who has been affected WRITE IN CAPS how much was taken by PMI and YES or NO if that matches *any* previous deposits to FT. I really want to try and narrow this down.

YES. 100 DOLLARS

It's fairly clear that the person manning the phones is a call center drone. They're useless, and aren't going to just stop and explain the whole scam to you.

I've tried asking for this information, and it's hit and miss. I was hit by PMI for $200 three times, as per my thread starter.

I deposited $200 back in July of 2010, and cashed out 1k by check in late September. E-check in, paper check out.

I played on rakeback money for a month after that, and then eventually deposited $501 and withdrew $502 in the same day in November, leaving myself my profit to play with. [The $502 cashout was tied up for some time in non-delivered checks and failed wire transfers...] E-check in, eventual paper check out.

I then put in a measly $50 in back in January to start playing low-limit S&Gs again for practice. E-check in, no cashout.

Since the "issue" happened, I have not touched the cashier.

meh, prolly not but do you reckon these are the PMI dudes?

http://pmicashaccess.com/about-us.php

just seems a bit of a coincidence that these work in the Casino/Gaming Industry...

and this dude is the CEO of the above entity...


LOL

this maybe totally wrong like but meh... should try these contact details imo

Phone Number: 1-424-202-3691
Fax 310-464-3581

Email Address: sales@pmicashaccess.com

Oh and it almost certainly looks like a 3rd party hired by FullTilt...

LOL...