I think the more pertinent question is why do all of these players that complain constantly about the bots still play on the network??

Yes we are the problem thank you /thread

Hey all, recently decided to cash out from global and come back to ACR. I played for maybe 3 hours last night and my only problem is the tournament pop ups that come up on every table at once. I went into settings and turn off the only option that seemed related to this. The pop ups continued, am I missing something?

Thanks

Anyone else’s time bank not working in MOSS tournaments? Cost me a stack the other night.

Any reason the MOSS ME this Sunday says 15 min levels in the description, but the structure info has 10 minute blinds?

I keep playing PLO with the bots because I am profitable against them - since they are bots - their play is consistent and easy to play against - because I know what they are doing.

They play so predictable - that is what a competitive poker player wants.

To the point - when the poster says we are the problem.
He is kinda right, (i know he might not think so - and is being sarcastic - and will flame for typing this)

If no one played on the site because of bots - the site would be financial encouraged to eliminate them - but when you/people keep playing on the site and pay rake, they have no reason to stop it.

Businesses only hear dollars signs - and when they are making profit - they are not encouraged to change.

Sad but true....

I don't play PLO so I can't speak to the exploitability of the bots in those games. I do know from firsthand experience that NLHE cash games bots from the micro to mid-stakes can be adjusted to how you're playing against them and can start to take a more balanced and less exploitable approach against you which makes playing against them less profitable, if at all after rake. While some of them are initially pretty exploitable for a solid poker player, very few of which play below the mid-stakes, they still cause significant damage to the poker ecosystem by continuously taking a ton of money from the weaker players with their ability to put in massive amounts of volume without tilting or losing focus.

I completely agree.

Playing against bots is not profitable. It is possible to be protected by variance for quite some time, and I understand that knowing that a program is playing optimally allows you to make inferences and decisions you never could playing against a human with more random patterns, but a good bot is going to continue to make adjustments based on your statistics and in the long run that's bad business.

I think there are three sets of players on ACR :

1 ) Players making a profit - these players are aware of some shady business at the tables, but it is hard to turn away from profit.

2 ) Amateurs who are going to lose their dollars no matter what, they may get frustrated losing to certain ppl but will likely just continue depositing no matter what.

3 ) Players cheating whether thru botting or simple collusion.

None of the above groups is going to boycott a site, and most of group 2 is made up of American players who don't really have much better options. They aren't on ACR because they have a choice, they are on ACR because they allow them to continue doing what the government has really done an excellent job stopping them from doing. I would never flame you because all your points are right, but asking the people who are NOT the problem to fix the market is a heavy ask, and people very rarely are willing to make changes in their life that benefit them if those changes have any initial perceived cost. Add to that that you're asking humans to do it, and woof you've got problems.

Winning TD actually does yeoman's work in this thread to help people with what he can, and has gotten responses on issues for me a few times already, but I don't think solving integrity issues within gameplay is something that is within his power. These problems are not unique to ACR, Stars/FT/AP etc all had issues with cheating and bots, and we did not have to boycott to get things done. Our problem here is that the site knows that a boycott is not feasible nor is it organizable, and that they are profiting passively from the issue. What we need is someone accountable within the organization at a higher level, and what we have seen in the past is that the site operates without that personnel. The best course of action is simply to report the issues here, so that at least people have the option to review and choose for themselves.

"Sad but true" is just a perfect phrase for the whole situation, and it does not look to be changing anytime soon neither from security removing these players from the site nor with the US changing their stance on gambool. We are not and never will be the problem. But there are laws stating that we are, and we will it seems remain unprotected until that changes.

^^ all that.

And yea the bots adjust. It's funny in a sad kind of way when 6 accounts unilaterally and simultaneously incorporate exactly the same new betsize or line into their play.

Do the bots exist at nl2 nl5 I'm trying buy hold em manager and play micro stakes pretty serious but if professional colluding bots exist it make me feel helpless.

I don't play those stakes but have no doubt they exist there. They are probably less sophisticated though. Don't let them discourage you from getting into poker as there is still money to be made even with them around.

^
Sure I'll have database so I hopefully after so many hands I can filter to see how many times certain players are sitting together etc.

The bots are scary but isolated bots are one thing but bots that give each other whole card info as part of algorithm would be such a losing scenario

@Winning_TD,

More satellites for the 1k buy in 200k GTD on Sundays please! Preferably ones that start a little later on.

Other than potential card sharing/collusion, this characteristic of bots is the one that bothers me the most. The bots do not tilt. They do not vary their strategy or make a mistake based on a previous hand (unless coded in by the bot maker to increase wr). Their ability to stay tilt-free is such a massive advantage in the long run. I'm much better now at not tilting, but thinking back, if I could erase just the top 5% of my worst raises/calls from tilt over my 5 million hand sample, that would have to be a HUGE gain in winrate/$.

Even though I think the bots are still slightly inferior - and it's getting closer every year - to the best human players, they do not ever play anything but their A game, all while they put in massive volume every week. Humans get tired, distracted, tilted and often perform sub-optimally relative to their best.



I do think it's very likely that the bots are colluding or card sharing. I have no definitive proof. Nor do I want to spend the time combing my database to try and figure it out. As others have pointed out, it's not in WPN's best interest to remove bots from their poker economy. And I (and other regs) would rather spend time grinding than trying to remove these bots, especially when WPN seems to have no interest in getting rid of them.

Does WPN have a license to operate somewhere? If so what kind of regulatory body are they dealing with and can we go to them?

Black Chip Poker is the worst! Nonstop issues all the time. This morning I tried logging in to the poker client and was told that an authentication code was sent to my email and I needed to verify the account before I could play. I checked my email....no code. I open and closed the client multiple times with it "sending me a code" each time and nothing ever came to my inbox or junk mail.

I contacted support over the phone who then asked me to change my email address. They assisted with having the email changed and then asked me to to try logging in with the new email. I did this and was told that the authentication code has been sent to my new email. What do you know? No code ever comes. Support emailed me multiple times and I received those emails fine so it's obviously an issue with the system.

So now after 2 hours on the phone the rep tells me that she has tried everything and that she is going to "create a case" for my issue and pass it on. Awesome....What a god damn joke of a site. This was the last straw. Bovada here I come.

@winningTD good job with the schedule for these series. no troll. seems like buyins are fairly well spread, guarantees being hit. much better than the last few i remember. could use a couple higher buyins on the micro heavy days, and 5 hour late reg is still garbage. maybe try to limit that to sundays? otherwise wp

now that i said a nice thing PLEASE FIX JACKPOT GAMES and obligatory mention of bots and mucked cards

Ya, if they had more tourneys with less late reg time I'd actually play some. As is I don't touch those half a day tourneys. I don't have the patience for that nonsense.

Some real sketchiness from ACR tonight (Shocking, I know)

Earlier I tried to send a buddy 3 different transfers totaling $288 ($100, $100, $88) that were all denied and he did not receive them. However, the money was still taken from my account. I was playing a bunch of tables at the time so when I noticed, I asked my buddy if he'd received anything and he said No. So I jumped on Live Support and told "Jose" what was up.

I unfortunately didn't screenshot the conversation but Jose initially tried to say that the problem was on my end - that they were normal transfers that went through. After much back and forth, he finally said something along the lines of "Oh I see that there was a transfer of $88 that got denied that we will now approve and send to xxxxxx"

I'm like "eerrrrm wut? There were 3 transfers for $288 total and why would they just be held in limbo like that? Also you need to send the money back to me, not xxxxxxx"

As I double checked my records and played some hands on my tables, he said he would send the $88 and asked if I needed anything else. No more than 90 seconds went by before I clicked back on the chat and he had said something like, "Anything else? Ok, due to inactivity this live chat is over"

There had been countless times earlier in the live chat where there were longer pauses than 90 seconds. So I get back on live chat, get Jose again and drill it into him that I'm still owed $200. I show him time stamps and all the numbers. Finally he says "Oh you are correct, I will send the $200"


Either this was a deliberate scam attempt or we're dealing with some of the dumbest people to ever run a poker site.

This please. It is almost unplayable when the software freezes up. We need to be able to use the client and when there is so much traffic on the network is just comes to a halt.

This is the only advantage they have against a good regular. And it is massive. WPN is a criminal syndicate that profits from their customers being cheated. I am in disbelief at the NLHE/PLO bots and how much they have stolen. Over 50% of rake being generated at WPN cash games is from bots. The bot operator literally doesn't care anymore because he knows there is 0% chance WPN will ever do anything (bots now 2-4 per table, playing PLO2000, ect). The PLO bots are making around 3-4 million USD/year after all the rakeback and beast prizes are factored in. God only knows how much the NLHE bots are making.

I am going to investigate if the bots do adjust vs individual players. Should be relatively easy to prove. Almost every single bot in my sample had off the charts AllinEV rungood. Now I will only play tables that have only a single bot, but when 15+ tabling you can easily miss when 2 or 3 more join a table, plus they keep making new accounts that take at least 100 hands or so to spot.

Any tips on spotting bots?

So you had an issue and it ended up being resolved? Sounds pretty crappy to me...

soo corrupt...blackjack 13 losses in a row which is impossible

wsop..I'm the 7th to register in a 5/wsop7 try to unregister for 15 minutes, thought I was good,i lose after leaving and blind out..they laugh at me for trying to get my money back

REally? Show your homework.