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Old 11-30-2011, 05:05 PM   #1
lnt205
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Dispute with BETONLINE

Hello, I realize this is one of my first post on 2p2 forum because of my dispute with Betonline poker, I have posted my thread at SBR but unfortunately, my account at SBR has been time out untill they are trying to resolve my case with Betonline. From then, I havent received an email from SBR or BEtonline.
http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbook...betonline.html
I started play poker at BetOnline in September and fortunate to build my account to about 50k, I cashed out about 13k and still had about 37k left in my account. Last week, I received an email from BEtonline state that
Hello Quang.

While checking your account, we noticed that you played in the same tables as kenpham84.

Can you please explain your relation with this username?

Why are you playing in same tables from same internet connection?

Best regards,
Ricky
BetOnLine Payouts
payouts@betonline.com


I explained to the email that I responded to them that" kenpham84" is my friend. I invited him to Betonline 3 weeks ago to play poker. He only played at microstake such at $.25/$50 or $.50/$1.00. I played at the $5/$10 and $10/$20 so we did not play at the same table. Only one time that he came to my house and asked me to transfer to him about $50 because he lost most of his money in his game. I asked him how. He said that just sit down at the head up table and I would able to give him $50. I told him that most of the pokersite wont let 2 player at the same IP address sat down at the same table. He said just tried it because this sportbook website is kind of different. Surprisingly, the software did let us sat down at the heap up table and I was able to transfer him $50. And that's the only time we played at the same table. 3 weeks later, I received an email above and I did explained everything I did. However, they still closed my account and confiscate about 37k for " collusion and sharing information" . My question are:

1. " I knew that what I did was wrong but why did their software let us sat down at the same table initially, Pokerstar, FTP never let 2 player at the same IP address sat down at the same table" .
2. I never received an email warning that I should stop doing that transfer.
3. Their poker manager called me to inform that my account is closed due to" transfer chip, sharing information, collusion" but I never sharing information or we played at a team to take advantage of other player. I just unknowingly dump $50 to my friend to help him keep play at Betonline.

4. Other than that, I never played with him or played with him as a team to win money from other player, all the money I won at BEtonline is fair and they can review them as many time as they want.
The reason I post this thread is I feel that I do not deserve to forfeited 37k in my account due to that small mistake. I can say that I am an very honest player and never had any problem with the pokersite I played. If most of my winning came from collusion or chip dump, I have nothing to say if they confiscate my fund. I just think that money can be transferred from this player to that player because that's what happen to the website I played. I also wanna say that if you decided to deposit at Betonline, think twice because I feel like they just wait for your mistake due to their awful software and took all your money.

Their customer service is also awful, everytime I called them their poker manager is always not available. The live chat is absolutely no help and untill they make the final decision of account closed permanently, I never had a chance to talk to anybody in poker department. THey called me when everything is done. There is no way that I can involve in the decision making precess.

Any help about my situation would be appreciated. Thanks
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Old 11-30-2011, 05:07 PM   #2
lnt205
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

I also received PM from one of our member suggested calling to speak directly with the manager but I never have a chance to talk to them because they always hang up in the middle.
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Old 11-30-2011, 05:09 PM   #3
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

Guys who didn't actually chip dump have recently had a REAL hard time getting their funds back after BOL suspended their accounts....so after self-admitting that you did actually chip dump (even for a small amount)....well....GL bro.....
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Old 11-30-2011, 05:11 PM   #4
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

Quote:
Originally Posted by lnt205 View Post
I just unknowingly dump $50 to my friend to help him keep play at Betonline.
How can it be unknowingly when you dumped the money to him on purpose, this is against the terms and conditions.
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Old 11-30-2011, 05:12 PM   #5
AirborneSapper9845
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

and for the record....BOL is part of the Action Poker Network (tho they lie and say they aren't) and according to a recent post, you can sit at the same table FROM THE SAME COMPUTER logged into multiple skins on this network...so their software being trash doesn't mean it's OK to dump chips.

Is it fair for you to lose 37K for dumping $50 in chips? Probably not by most definitions of the word "fair".....but just to let you know, you are gonna have an uphill battle getting your money unfrozen.....
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Old 11-30-2011, 05:44 PM   #6
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

Quote:
Originally Posted by lnt205 View Post
1. " I knew that what I did was wrong but why did their software let us sat down at the same table initially, Pokerstar, FTP never let 2 player at the same IP address sat down at the same table" .
2. I never received an email warning that I should stop doing that transfer.
If you knew it was wrong, why does it matter that they never emailed you?

You definitely shouldn't lose your entire roll, but a ban is somewhat reasonable.

GL dealing with them though, as others have said even players who didn't break rules had to fight and scratch to get their money.
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Old 11-30-2011, 06:46 PM   #7
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

ouch.. yea probably not fair if this is what really happened but openly admitting to dumping is going to equal them takeing your 37k... esp in these rough times... sorry OP but id say you have about a .00000000001 percent chance of getting your account and money back
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:28 PM   #8
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

OP admitted to chip dumping, but if the alleged chip dump was only a fraction of the Bankroll does everyone think it's fair that BetOnline keeps 37K?

Obviously OP should be banned from BetOnline but they shouldn't simply keep those funds unless there was some other fraudulent activity involving his account. If there was fraudulent activity then those funds belong to someone besides BetOnline. I guess that's what I'm saying is that BetOnline shouldn't profit 37k from these types of incidents. I really that OP broke Terms and Conditions but just doesn't seem the punishment fits the crime, IF the info provided is accurate.
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:40 PM   #9
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

Heres the thing. They should have shut his account down AS SOON AS THEY SAW/SUSPECTED THE CHIPDUMPING. They didnt though. They let him run up a 37k balance and now its a problem. Of course its fine to penalize him for his wrong of chip dumping $50 but no respectable site would go about it like this. So what if he would have run it up to a million before asking for a cashout?(they have nl10k on this site so its not an impossibility) BOL gets to keep his mill over a $50 dump? Impossible to take BOL's side, they could/should have shut him down right away but instead they let him go on playing for what I'm assuming is months and its only a problem when when he asks for the cashout.
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Old 12-03-2011, 01:29 AM   #10
lnt205
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

flash237,
Thanks for your suggestion. I tried to call them everyday to talk to their manager. But it seems like their managers are always on the meeting or out of office. Everytime I called they always told me call back in 45 minute or some and when I call them back was different story :" manager is on the meeting or my supervisor is out of office" . I guess I would try to keep calling them
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Old 12-03-2011, 03:21 AM   #11
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

This room is ran by incompetent people and is currently undergoing serious cashflow issues, so in case you ever get your money back you get it out of the room and never back. Anyway, they have you where they wanted you: you dumped 50 usd to a friend, therefore you "broke the TOS", so they now can justify (in their minds) whatever moneygrab they can.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:02 PM   #12
lnt205
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

Hi guys,
UPDATE: I was able to speak with Betonline manager today and she said the management is investigating my account again ,she also promised she will call me back later today or tomorrow and let me know the result.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:01 PM   #13
danny4u
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

gl with it.

if you look at their site, it looks all so thrustworthy.
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:15 AM   #14
lnt205
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

Still havent received any things from them as promised.
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:43 AM   #15
lnt205
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

In the meantime, SBR denied to helping me in this matter. They locked my account for no reason and when I try to contact them they said " your account was locked because you have multiple account" which I did not.
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:59 AM   #16
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

does the TOS say "if you sit HU with a friend and appear to lose on purpose we will confiscate all the money in your account?" I get that chip dumping is against TOS but there are different levels of chip dumping and motives behind it. Dumping 50 bucks to somebody with no other players at the table being affected... idk that just seems so minor. For them to steal 37k over it is outragious.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:16 AM   #17
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamGB View Post
I get that chip dumping is against TOS but there are different levels of chip dumping and motives behind it. Dumping 50 bucks to somebody with no other players at the table being affected... idk that just seems so minor. For them to steal 37k over it is outragious.
I agree, but it seems to me that even this is something of an understatement.

Chipdumping can be very harmful and a serious (even criminal) offence. Instances of this would be where it's employed for the purposes of money-laundering or emptying a hacked account.

On the other hand, it can be both entirely innocent and harmless - as perhaps it was in OP's case.

This isn't to say that sites should implement policies which allow "harmless" chipdumping. This might just not be practical. They shouldn't however treat every case of it as if it's money-laundering or part of some criminal enterprise.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:26 AM   #18
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

Quote:
Originally Posted by lnt205 View Post
3. Their poker manager called me to inform that my account is closed due to" transfer chip, sharing information, collusion" but I never sharing information or we played at a team to take advantage of other player. I just unknowingly dump $50 to my friend to help him keep play at Betonline.
OP - if as you say, there was only one occassion on which you sat with your friend, and it was at a HU table,

and if Betonline's case against you is solely based upon your play with this friend - as it appears to be in the original email they sent you,

then

Under no stretch of the imagination can any reasonable person consider you to have colluded, or to have shared information in some nefarious way. You can't collude HU. It's a totally ridiculous idea.

If Betonline are intending to seize your funds, at the very least you are entitled to an adequate explanation of why. The explanation you've got appears to be nonsense.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:53 PM   #19
lnt205
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

So today I called them again I heard the answer that was completely different from what I was promised yesterday. Their supervisor was trying to blow me up saying" there is no ivnestgation, your account is permanently closed. We dont want your business, what are yoyr point of calling here". I said" I called to have dispute about my fund" She said" your fund will stay here, you cant expect to get the fund that you are colluded" I told her that I never involved in anything collusion and she said " I'm not a poker person you have to send email to poker department and whether they respond or not, you account will still closed, there is no change" .
It is ridiculous that she stated that all my winning came from collusion and that's why they keep the balance.
I believed SBR locked my account because they dont want to get involved to their sponsor book
I feel very hopeless now about my situation but I willl never give up, I will try to post this to another sportbook forum and anywhere else that I can.
Any suggestion would be welcomed.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:56 PM   #20
lnt205
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clicken View Post
I agree, but it seems to me that even this is something of an understatement.

Chipdumping can be very harmful and a serious (even criminal) offence. Instances of this would be where it's employed for the purposes of money-laundering or emptying a hacked account.

On the other hand, it can be both entirely innocent and harmless - as perhaps it was in OP's case.

This isn't to say that sites should implement policies which allow "harmless" chipdumping. This might just not be practical. They shouldn't however treat every case of it as if it's money-laundering or part of some criminal enterprise.
That's what I tried to explain to them when I call but they always said" it doesnt matter, we are not tolerated by such activity"
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:58 PM   #21
lnt205
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clicken View Post
OP - if as you say, there was only one occassion on which you sat with your friend, and it was at a HU table,

and if Betonline's case against you is solely based upon your play with this friend - as it appears to be in the original email they sent you,

then

Under no stretch of the imagination can any reasonable person consider you to have colluded, or to have shared information in some nefarious way. You can't collude HU. It's a totally ridiculous idea.

If Betonline are intending to seize your funds, at the very least you are entitled to an adequate explanation of why. The explanation you've got appears to be nonsense.
There is no explaination, " you transfer your money, that's good enough to take your money". What a ridiculous poker room
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:00 PM   #22
lnt205
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamGB View Post
does the TOS say "if you sit HU with a friend and appear to lose on purpose we will confiscate all the money in your account?" I get that chip dumping is against TOS but there are different levels of chip dumping and motives behind it. Dumping 50 bucks to somebody with no other players at the table being affected... idk that just seems so minor. For them to steal 37k over it is outragious.
That's correct. Whatever I tried to expain to them,they always restated that" chip dump is against the rule here, your account is closed and it will not be reopened,, that's it"
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:24 PM   #23
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

Confiscating 37k for alleged 50 usd chipdump?

What a shameless moneygrab. That's plain theft.

I'd use all my resources to make these ****ers pay, not only what they owe you, but a whole lot more.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:32 PM   #24
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

I don't care what anyone thinks about their tos, if you can't get a reasonable amount of money back from them, contact a lawyer and seek legal action.

Better then just leaving it imo
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Old 12-07-2011, 07:09 PM   #25
AlexanderGray
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Re: Dispute with BETONLINE

This room is so sick. There must be some justice!
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