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Old 07-25-2017, 12:11 PM   #1
Wild Card
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This thread has two main purposes:
1) to help people understand what rakeback they get from their Pokerstars chests
2) to collect and compare data on the types of chests, point requirements, boosts and chest sequences that people receive (in order to better understand the system as a whole).

Select your chest from the list below, to find out your rakeback.

If your Chest Type & Required Points or Boost are not listed, please post them in this thread Also please post the sequence of chest upgrades you get, or boost sequences (so we can see how much they vary, up or down etc.)

The lists are in two main categories: boosted and unboosted.
Select the chest you most commonly receive, to get the most accurate answer.
If you usually have a combination of different ones (e.g. some boosted, some unboosted) you can take an average of those values.
These are all actual chests that a number of different players have received.

Unboosted Chests
Unboosted Chests: 1 point = 1 cent rake paid.

Type Points Rakeback
Red 200 7.365%
Red 240 6.138%
Red 280 5.261%
Blue 560 8.139%
Blue 650 7.012%
Blue 675 6.753%
Bronze 1400 8.362%
Bronze 2350 4.982%
Silver 3400 8.732%
Silver 6800 4.366%
Gold 18000 4.168%
Gold 22000 3.41%
Platinum 48000 4.692%

Low Point Chests (unboosted)
Type Points Rakeback
Red 165 8.927%
Blue 370 12.319%
Silver 1850 16.047%
Gold 4250 17.651%
Platinum 10250 21.97%
Platinum 20000 11.26%

Boosted Chests
Chest Points - Boost Points = Actual Chest Points Required
(with maximum 'Boost' possible = 1/2 of Chest Points. See notes below.)
These are the rakeback values of chests you play using one Boost, and complete in under 8 hours. The 'Play Thru' column is the total amount of rake paid to open the chest.

Type Points Boost Play Thru Rakeback
Red 200 75 125 11.784%
Red 240 unboosted 240 6.138%
Red 240 15 225 6.547%
Red 240 45 195 7.554%
Red 240 75 165 8.927%
Red 240 85 155 9.503%
Red 240 100 140 10.521%
 
Blue 560 100 460 9.909%
Blue 560 160 400 11.395%
Blue 560 175 385 11.839%
Blue 560 200 360 12.661%
 
Bronze 1400 200 1200 9.756%
Bronze 1400 215 1185 9.879%
Bronze 2350 215 2135 5.484%

Boosted Chest Info
  • a chest has its 'Boost On', when the yellow line is visible in the Progress Bar
  • You get a new Boost: 8 hours after each and every completed Boost
  • The Boost number, is the 'play through' requirement in rake (in cents), to receive double that amount in Chest Points
  • Boosted Chests mainly affect people who open red and blue chests, because higher chest types get less boost.
Unboosted Chests: you get 1 point, per 1 cent rake paid.
Boosted Chests: you get 2 points, per 1 cent rake paid, for the duration of the boost. (Example: 10 cents rake paid = 20 points, and removes 10 of your boost points).
The Pokerstars way of explaining it: you earn points at double the rate.
A possibly easier way to see it:
Chest Points Required - Boost Points = Actual Chest Points Required.
The maximum 'boost' possible for a chest, is equal to half of the 'Chest Points' Required. This is because the Boost is a 2x multiplier, which has a play through requirement of the value of the boost. One or more boosts that total half (or more) of the 'Chest Points', once completed, would also complete that chest. Any additional boost would be moved onto the next chest.


100% Boosted Red Chests
If you complete 1 Red chest per day or less , it is possible to complete it entirely on boost.
You will need to play only when the Boost is on, and stop immediately when that Boost has finished. Wait 8 hours for your next boost and repeat.
Basically only play when you can see a yellow line in the progress bar.
(Example : a Red 240 Chest, with 60 boost. Play until boost finishes, stop immediately. Wait 8 hours for another 60 boost, stop when it finishes. Chest completed. Wait for the next boost, repeat.)
You can complete your 1 Red Chest over a number of days, just make sure you only play when the Boost is on.

1 Red Chest per day or less , possible rakeback:
1 Red 200 Chest Points, 100% Boost = 14.729% Rakeback
1 Red 240 Chest Points, 100% Boost = 12.274% Rakeback
Points Boost PlayThru Rakeback
200 100 100 14.7293%
240 120 120 12.27441667%

(Higher Chest Types above Red, can get downgraded to a lower chest type, if you spend too much time completing them. For example, you start a Bronze Chest on Friday, you take the weekend off, when you come back on Monday, your next chest after completing that one may well be downgraded to a Blue Chest.)

If your Chest Type & Required Points or Boost are not listed, please post them below .
Please also post sequences of chest upgrades (e.g. Red Chest: 240 boost 75, Blue Chest: 560 boost 75) and boost sequences. Or if your Chest Points required suddenly went up or down, let us know how much, and what action you think caused it. Thanks

The rakeback amounts were calculated using this chart. The list of frequencies is from the Pokerstars website.


Last edited by Mike Haven; 07-29-2017 at 08:39 PM. Reason: 2 posts merged
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:11 PM   #2
omnishakira
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Card View Post
(Higher Chest Types above Red, can get downgraded to a lower chest type, if you spend too much time completing them. For example, you start a Bronze Chest on Friday, you take the weekend off, when you come back on Monday, your next chest after completing that one may well be downgraded to a Blue Chest.)
I think you can play a 0 chest / 2 chest / 0 chest / 2 chest / 0 chest strategy and play on boost almost full time if your boost is half the chest

you play day 1 twice with 2 different boost but you make sure you get your chest after midnight (0 chest for today, 1 for the next)
after that 2 you play during your 2 boosts but make sure you finish before midnight giving you 2 chests total for the day

repeat


ive 360 boosts for bronze btw

Last edited by omnishakira; 07-25-2017 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:56 PM   #3
squire1888
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***



legit got one stars coin in a chest lolol
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Old 07-26-2017, 02:49 AM   #4
DJSirMatthew
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You can move up or down the Chest types based on your *last* completed progress bars.

- If the four bars all have the same completion day and are of the same type, you move up a Chest level. Your 4th progress bar in a calendar day will be blue to indicate you can move up to the next Chest if you complete the progress bar by the end of the day.

- If at least two progress bars have the same completion day, you will remain on your current Chest level.

- If the last three progress bars have different completion days, you move down a Chest level.

This process applies for all Chest types, except you cannot downgrade below Chest type 1 and you cannot upgrade beyond Chest type 6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by squire1888 View Post


legit got one stars coin in a chest lolol
I once had +0 stars coins (and only 5 points towards next chest). Maybe it was a glitch but I was a bit stunned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Card View Post
1 Red Chest per day or less , possible rakeback:
1 Red 200 Chest Points, 100% Boost = 14.729% Rakeback
1 Red 240 Chest Points, 100% Boost = 12.274% Rakeback
Points Boost PlayThru Rakeback
200 100 100 14.7293%
240 120 120 12.27441667%
edit: nvm, didn't see the point requirement change (200 vs 240)

Btw, I play only fully boosted red chests for the time being and keep getting 240 points and 75 point boosts.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 07-26-2017 at 06:51 AM. Reason: 3 posts merged
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Old 07-26-2017, 04:25 AM   #5
coach999
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

Amazing! Can it get more complicated than this,stars pls? Time to cash out boys!
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Old 07-26-2017, 10:32 AM   #6
GoinGreen
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

this is confusing af
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Old 07-26-2017, 10:49 AM   #7
*CHOMP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squire1888 View Post


legit got one stars coin in a chest lolol
CONGRATS!

Maybe Negreanu will make a vlog about it!

Thank you Lee Jones!

Quote:
Originally Posted by coach999 View Post
Amazing! Can it get more complicated than this,stars pls? Time to cash out boys!
I guess thats the point- To try and hide as much as possible from people how badly they are being stuck in the butt.

Hi Lee Jones!

Hi Jason Somerville! Make poker great again!


In one hand you're holding the poster for the public fooling them to think you care about poker and it's growth

In the other it's revealed the only growth you care about is yours, and your hand is fighting the bots for every last penny

Last edited by Mike Haven; 07-29-2017 at 08:40 PM. Reason: 2 posts merged
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Old 07-26-2017, 12:00 PM   #8
EbutDrool
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

Really appreciative of this thread despite the fact it makes my head hurt trying to understand it. But thank you anyway.

I'm still confused by the structure of it all, the other day I earned 4 chests, got very little between any of them, didn't play much yesterday and then earned a blue chest today which awarded me 1,222 starcoins and $50 cash.

I've had the odd $25 cash, but mostly $1 or $3. Will try and keep track a bit better now using the information in this thread.

EDIT: Or was it a platinum chest? It may have been platinum. Why do this to my brain Stars?! :/
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Old 07-26-2017, 01:26 PM   #9
DonCheckRaiso
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

I guess it is also one of the motivations behind it, making the new reward system confusing and random.
This way costumers cant compare the rakeback with other sites.
Beside providing a way to reducing the rakeback in a not so obvious way to avoid upsetting the costumers.
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Old 07-26-2017, 06:55 PM   #10
hypergeometry
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

Is this the most untransparent and complicated VIP program ever conceived in poker history ?

How can a VIP program be so complicated, Amaya is ruining the site at high speed.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:36 AM   #11
Riverallin
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

It is not a vip program. It is something like a slot machine with crap rewards
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:20 AM   #12
RonDurante
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

It's a joke

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:07 PM   #13
Wild Card
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EbutDrool View Post
Really appreciative of this thread despite the fact it makes my head hurt trying to understand it. But thank you anyway.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by EbutDrool View Post
I'm still confused by the structure of it all, the other day I earned 4 chests, got very little between any of them, didn't play much yesterday and then earned a blue chest today which awarded me 1,222 starcoins and $50 cash.

I've had the odd $25 cash, but mostly $1 or $3. Will try and keep track a bit better now using the information in this thread.

EDIT: Or was it a platinum chest? It may have been platinum. Why do this to my brain Stars?! :/
Yes, that sounds like a platinum chest. Blue chests are blue with a black stripe, Platinum Chests are blue with a blue stripe.
See this link to Jdawg's post, to see his screenshot of a platinum chest:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...=#post52492122

The ones where you got around ~$3 are most likely Gold Chests. If you add together the starcoin and cash you can see which one you got. So 1,222sc + $50 = $62.22, means that you got that 7% chance Platinum reward on the frequency table (see the 2nd post in this thread). It is useful to know exactly how many starcoins and cash you get though, so we know what sort of split Pokerstars do on rewards.

Could you tell me the total Chest Points required for your platinum chests, please? Also the boost value, if you can see it. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by squire1888 View Post
legit got one stars coin in a chest lolol
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJSirMatthew View Post
I once had +0 stars coins (and only 5 points towards next chest). Maybe it was a glitch but I was a bit stunned
If you guys really got either 1 starcoin, or zero starcoins, as the total prize in a chest, that's really off the charts... in a bad way.

You should both definately:

1.) Email Stars and complain, because you are entitled to a bare minimum of 7 cents. (Or at least the minimum prize for your Chest type, which may be higher and a chance of winning the other prizes too).
2.) Write a message in the 'Software Improvement' thread, because clearly, if this is the case, they have made a mistake in their software and that should never have happened to either of you (or anyone else).

(Edit: it might not seem important, but it is, it could affect 1000's of players who might otherwise expect prizes anywhere from 7cents to $103.70. So definately let them know.)

Let us know Pokerstars' response in this thread please, thanks

Last edited by Mike Haven; 07-29-2017 at 08:38 PM. Reason: 2 posts merged
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:55 AM   #14
DJSirMatthew
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Card View Post
If you guys really got either 1 starcoin, or zero starcoins, as the total prize in a chest, that's really off the charts... in a bad way.

You should both definately:

1.) Email Stars and complain, because you are entitled to a bare minimum of 7 cents. (Or at least the minimum prize for your Chest type, which may be higher and a chance of winning the other prizes too).
2.) Write a message in the 'Software Improvement' thread, because clearly, if this is the case, they have made a mistake in their software and that should never have happened to either of you (or anyone else).

(Edit: it might not seem important, but it is, it could affect 1000's of players who might otherwise expect prizes anywhere from 7cents to $103.70. So definately let them know.)

Let us know Pokerstars' response in this thread please, thanks
Just asked for a player audit file. There is only one line with 0 starcoins but it has 0.1 TM . The chest I thought that also showed +0 seems to be +42 starcoins according to the audit file. However, there are 2 lines with only 4 starcoins (no TM) and 1 line with 2 starcoins (no TM). I know one of them included a weekly freeroll ticket which doesn't show in the audit file. Also, do they take into account the "value" of the points towards your next chest in their minimum 7 cent price? If not, then something's off.
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Old 07-28-2017, 07:46 AM   #15
smetiardopici
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

thanks for making the thread, it makes things at least a bit clearer
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Old 07-28-2017, 04:04 PM   #16
Slugant
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

thanks for the thread

the low points chests look more interesting but i never get those while playing. when do you get a low point chest instead of a normal point chest?
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Old 07-28-2017, 07:23 PM   #17
dogarse
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugant View Post
when do you get a low point chest instead of a normal point chest?
When you're a fish presumably. My chests are even lower than the low ones listed here.
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Old 07-29-2017, 02:58 AM   #18
Slugant
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogarse View Post
When you're a fish presumably. My chests are even lower than the low ones listed here.
once again the fact that i am a huge crusher works against me in rigorous ways
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Old 07-29-2017, 03:16 AM   #19
soinana
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by coach999 View Post
Amazing! Can it get more complicated than this,stars pls? Time to cash out boys!
LOL completely agree. Is the idea to make it so complicated that people don't realize how little they are getting back? Seems so to me.
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Old 07-29-2017, 04:08 AM   #20
dogarse
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

I can't believe anyone that can wrap their head around the game of poker could find the chests excessively complicated.

I quite like the chests and the way one progresses through them and I think they would be a really positive if they weren't coupled with a massive rake reduction and a lack of transparency regarding how much each chest will cost an individual player.
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Old 07-29-2017, 01:17 PM   #21
Wild Card
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugant View Post
when do you get a low point chest instead of a normal point chest?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogarse View Post
When you're a fish presumably. My chests are even lower than the low ones listed here.
I was going to suggest that he should ask you
I got the 'Points' value for some of those 'Low Point Chests' from your post in the other thread (where you mention getting that chest).
(I'm not saying you or anyone else is a fish or anything, by the way )

Could you elaborate on what things you think you might have done, that caused the 'Low Point' Chests?
Do you think if someone had some run bad they might get lower chest points? Or do you actually have to deposit? Or might it happen if you lose a certain amount of bankroll (but not deposit)?

Also, could you tell me about those chests you've got that are not listed here?
Please tell me chest type, points required, boosts etc.

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by smetiardopici View Post
thanks for making the thread, it makes things at least a bit clearer
Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugant View Post
thanks for the thread
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJSirMatthew View Post
Just asked for a player audit file. There is only one line with 0 starcoins but it has 0.1 TM . The chest I thought that also showed +0 seems to be +42 starcoins according to the audit file. However, there are 2 lines with only 4 starcoins (no TM) and 1 line with 2 starcoins (no TM). I know one of them included a weekly freeroll ticket which doesn't show in the audit file. Also, do they take into account the "value" of the points towards your next chest in their minimum 7 cent price? If not, then something's off.
Thanks for the update Yes, something sounds seriously wrong with the prizes they are giving you.

In answer to your question, no they should not count 'points towards next chest' as part of the advertised cash prize.
They have clearly stated, that when you open a chest you will get one of the cash prizes listed on their frequency table.

They do seem to sometimes split this prize, into part hard cash, part starcoins. Some of the lower chests get all starcoin.
Starcoins have a redeemable value of 1 cent per starcoin, and you can buy tickets or into some tourneys with starcoins.
(I think that giving out a lot of starcoins, rather than the cash $ amount advertised, is pushing it a bit, tbh).
You can always turn starcoins into cash when you have $10 worth.

However, 'Points towards next chest' is not a prize. You've already met the criteria for opening that particular chest to receive the advertised cash amount.
(if you want to call the 'points towards next chest' anything, call it a bonus, but it's not a prize. It has no immediate value.
And possibly, best to think of it only as a discount on your next chest, if you happen to decide to play the next one.)

You have completed and fulfilled the requirements to open a chest. Each chest has a cash prize.
Pokerstars is under an agreement, with every player, to pay the cash amounts that they advertised.

(If it helps, imagine if they only ever gave out 'Points towards next chest'... then you would never receive a prize, and Pokerstars would have breached the terms of the contract.)

So please either (or both):

1.) Email Stars
2.) Let them know in the 'Software Improvements' thread, because this is a software error

Let us know their response in this thread please, thanks

Last edited by Mike Haven; 07-29-2017 at 08:37 PM. Reason: 3 posts merged
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Old 07-29-2017, 03:55 PM   #22
ArtyMcFly
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Card View Post
imagine if they only ever gave out 'Points towards next chest'... then you would never receive a prize
Don't give Amaya ideas for 2018!
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:02 PM   #23
poker_newbie
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

Hallo Wild Card,

as a formerly "chrome"-player with roundabout 100 VPP every month I'd like to add the following numbers to this list:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Card View Post
...
1 Red Chest per day or less , possible rakeback:
Points Boost PlayThru Rakeback
200 100 100 14.7293%
240 120 120 12.27441667%
...
Points Boost PlayThru Rakeback
150 75 150 20.00 %
165 75 150 18.18 %

RB calculation for 165 pts is under boost conditions!

At the moment I'm not quite sure what's the reason for the increase from 150 to 165 pts: It happened to me today the 2nd time, when I EXACTLY filled the chest under boost conditions; unfortunately I can't remember the first situation, so I guess this has something to do with the number of pts in the chest when the boost ends.

On the other hand I'm guessing what caused the decrease from 165 back to 150 pts: I think that you should NOT complete the 165 chest the next day.
I'll do this tomorrow and report the result on monday.
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Old 07-30-2017, 02:48 AM   #24
Wild Card
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
Don't give Amaya ideas for 2018!
lol good point

Well if they do that...

With all the rake money that we now pay, we should demand a much more convoluted cash grab lol And all employees be made to say the word 'ecosystem' at the start and finish of every sentence, every single day, until at least one of them can think up a less rubbish PR excuse (or perhaps an even more rubbish one? that might be more amusing )
If demands aren't met, all of those responsible have to stay in a room until each one of them has written out the word 'ecosystem' 2.5 billion times
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Old 07-30-2017, 04:11 AM   #25
Wild Card
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Re: *** Chest Rakeback At Pokerstars ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by poker_newbie View Post
Hallo Wild Card,

as a formerly "chrome"-player with roundabout 100 VPP every month I'd like to add the following numbers to this list:


Points Boost PlayThru Rakeback
150 75 150 20.00 %
165 75 150 18.18 %

RB calculation for 165 pts is under boost conditions!

At the moment I'm not quite sure what's the reason for the increase from 150 to 165 pts: It happened to me today the 2nd time, when I EXACTLY filled the chest under boost conditions; unfortunately I can't remember the first situation, so I guess this has something to do with the number of pts in the chest when the boost ends.

On the other hand I'm guessing what caused the decrease from 165 back to 150 pts: I think that you should NOT complete the 165 chest the next day.
I'll do this tomorrow and report the result on monday.
This is a great post, lots of details

Your table should read this:

Points Boost PlayThruIF Rakeback
150 75 75 19.64%
165 75 90 16.37%

Your first calc of 20% is a close enough approximation, but your second one was off for some reason, it should read as above.
(Unless you meant that you played it using multiple boosts, to play it entirely on boost, then it should be 17.85%)

The 'PlayThru' column on the second one should be: Chest Points - Boost = Actual Points. 165-75 = 90.
(This equation works for any boost up to and including a boost equal to half the chest points. The minimum number you can 'PlayThru' to open a chest, is exactly half the Points required).

So, (Chest EV/(Actual Points/100))*100 = (0.147293/0.9)*100 = 16.37%
If you played through the 165 Chest entirely on boost (using multiple boosts). Then the rakeback would be 17.85%, which is the maximum for that chest.
(The maximum possible combined boost being 165/2 = 82.5)

I actually use these values when calculating the EV:

Type Chest EV
Red 0.147293
Blue 0.455779
Bronze 1.170647
Silver 2.968565
Gold 7.501556
Platinum 22.519063

In the image showing the prize frequencies, the EV values I wrote there are just to make it much easier to read and understand. So that anyone can easily see it is an actual cash amount (the long term cash amount).

I think with 100VPP you were giving rake of approx $18.18 a month and under ChromeStar you would have had approx 14% rb, under the old VIP system.
Part of the trouble with the new system is that, if you run bad with chest variance, you could get only 9% rb, but most likely you won't.

This is great info though, we need to find out how to get the best out of the new system.
I look forward to hearing those results, thanks
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