I'll be honest and say the OP + stats = looks like they're either bots or nation-style pushbotters playing off a hand chart. Obviously, you should probably email support about it and get them kicked off.

Of course, instead of doing that, you post a thread saying that Cake is behind the whole thing (because there's so much extra rake to be had off filling up those empty seats at 20NL).

Well done OP.

i have pokertraker and i have at least 1000 hands on all these guys but i have never bothered to figure out how to get the hand histories from cake...maybe ill do that tonight...

im interesed in seein my own stats.. ummm

You come across like the guy who builds and runs the Cake House Bots...
Or some mouthpiece from Cake's PR department...
Except you do not seem to know much about Bots as Shills.

Finally... an intelligent post.

If these bots are run by Cake, then what difference would it make to tell them about it? All they would do is change their names and keep them there. This is so obvious and it makes me wonder why you smart greens would suggest this as a solution.

Because we are skeptical that they are run by the site.

Would you explain why you are skeptical? It's not like this is anything new in the poker world. Brick and mortar casinos have props to induce action. Online casinos have bots. Give me an intelligent reason why you are skeptical...I'll listen.

First off, I do believe there are bots on pretty much every poker site. Not to much we can do about that except for withdraw all of our funds and go to the casino. If someone here thinks there is a site without bots, your absolutely nuts.


If you know how these bots play then shouldn't you be able to beat them? I mean you know which hands they will call/raise with then you should definately know when to fold/raise.

All of this is entirely imo.

You seem to have this backwards, sir. You're supposed to give me a reason not to be skeptical.

And if you go back up, you'll see why I don't think that they're filling seats with bots instead of just diminishing the number of open tables. And the reason I believe that is what Adanthar said about them not really making a killing at those stakes, raking their own funds.

I have a program that is used for pokertracker to record your hands on cake. Keep in mind it will only save your stats and default everyone else hands as AK.

Since shills increase Casino profits...
And Vegas Casinos have been using shills for generations...
In a heavily regulated environment...

The onus is on YOU...
To explain why UNREGULATED offshore, online sites would DECLINE to use shills...
At, say, 5% of the cost of human shills...
And forgo increased Casino profits.

Why?

wow - the saying goes...

"The burden of proof is on the accuser."

It ain't on me to tell you why you shouldn't accuse them.

One strategy for Cake using bots is to increase the number of "players" on their site and make it more attractive. That makes sense to me from a business prospective. Most fish want to play where the crowds are. As others have mentioned, the bots don't have to be winning bots to be profitable for Cake in the long run.

You can also look at the pokertracker issue from two sides. You can say no PT helps Cake if they ever decide to unleash the occasional superuser or if they don't want their bots to be tracked. You can also say Cake doesn't want their players to be tracked by others and this helps by leveling the playing field - although I'm sure people will find other programs to use. Just my two cents.

edit: Redman said it better than I

If they are "in house" bots, then don't you think they would change their screen names very regularly and therefore PT analysis is meaningless.

drmdogg in question... this is pretty standard for the bots


https://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?H...zIjAzcfNzMM%3d


this one is cakeuldate..

https://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?H...wojAzcfNzMM%3d

As a software engineer...
I could have a break-even Bot up and running in a few weeks...
As could any talented 16 year old...
And I think non-engineers should realize they lack a lot of even basic knowledge.

It gets worse.

Since Shill Bots are far easier to develop...
Then external Bots...
Loading them with features like "cold-decking"...
Will be too tempting to resist for many ** marginal sites **.

I've datamined enough games like the Party 55s enough to know...
That 15-20% of all seats are filled by serious +ROI players...
Making anywhere from 5-20% ROI.

Note that +ROI players may only be 2% of all players...
But they play many tourneys/day...
So it adds up to close to 20% of all tourneys played.
That's 2 Pros per table.

Just "cold-decking" this Top 2% once in a while...
And dropping their ROI by 5%...
From 20 to 15, 15 to 10, or 10 to 5...
Would actually increase the Casinos rake by 10%...
And it would be completely undetectable.

I have no need to explain human nature to people like Markusgc.

pintO

https://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?H...xIjAzcfNzMM%3d

because it makes perfect sense for a poker site where you can change nicks weekly to program bots to raketrap the lowest possible limits, never change their names and then make them all come from the same general area. no way it could ever be somebody actually writing a poker bot on their own/coming up with a pushbot strat that works at uNL and then giving it to all their friends, because we know *that* never happens (it's why OP didn't even bother to email support).

don't let me stand in the way of the conspiracy though

here is cakeuldate again... adds to the cold deck theory???

https://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?H...wIjAzcfNzMM%3d

redmanplus, what you're saying is exactly the same as saying "anybody who could possibly benefit from any crime is immediately guilty of that crime"

i worked at a local bank for 4 years. i could rob the place and get away with it. therefore, i have robbed the place, right? because it's too tempting to resist.

rawghotta


https://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?H...wIjAzcfNzMM%3d

dude, I said I was skeptical that Cake is running bot shills. You invited me to give you reasons why I was skeptical.

Again, the point is, if someone thinks that there is an illegal/immoral act going on and I don't agree, then it's up to the accuser to convince others there's something to that belief, not the other way around.

Ever watch Law & Order? They convene the the Grand Jury to decide if there's reason to prosecute. But then the DA has to show why there's reason to go forward. If they can't, the don't. It has to do with the "innocent until proven guilty" premise. The judge works off that (stay with me...) idea. So when the Prosecution says "We think Cake is guilty of running bots." The judge says, "Why do you think that?"

**** HERE'S THE TRICKY PART THAT YOU'RE HAVING TROUBLE WITH****

The DA does not say "Well, how about you tell me why you don't think that, Your Honor."

Ya see how this works? I said that I'm not convinced. What you're supposed to do is present more evidence to convince me. Not challenge me to explain why I don't believe you. I'm not convinced because I believe that Cake runs a legit operation and that they have been consistent in their enforcement of software that is against their T&C's - which includes bots. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't play there.

I also don't believe that my local grocery is putting extra beef knuckles in my ground chuck or that they don't put 10% donkey piss in my milk. I might be wrong about both of those things, but until someone gives me a reason to think otherwise, I'm going to keep shopping there, KNOWING FULL-WELL THAT IT IS RUN BY HUMANS AND THAT HUMANS ARE SOMETIMES DISHONEST. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm not going to start a farm OR stop eating either.

I do agree, based on some of the evidence, that these "players" exhibit very peculiar tendencies, but I'm not ready to blame Cake for it yet. I whole-heartedly feel that they have much more to lose than to gain by doing something like that.

And I really still haven't heard any good reasons why people who think that they are bots haven't reported them to Cake to investigate. "Because if Cake is running them, then they won't do anything..." yeah, you're right. But if you ask them to look into it and they brush you off and you continue to see them, THEN I might listen a little more. However, I still think that if someone emails support about this, Cake will look into it and more likely than not (again - I could be wrong, but here's your chance to prove it!) they'll put an end to it.

Now if someone complains and it stops, someone can/will always cry "Oh, Cake stopped running bots 'cause they got caught." But ya know what? I don't and can't function in a state of mind where the place I make my living is just looking to screw me every chance they get the instant I stop looking over my shoulder. I know, I know - I'm just a babe in the woods when it comes to thinking that an organization run by people is happy with just making money hand over fist by NOT cheating its customers when it could make a little more in the short-term (while destroying its long-term) by stickin' it to them with horrible-playing, money-donating robots to fill seats in microstakes games.

You've mentioned some possible reasons why they might do such a thing - basically they all boil down to greed. I might take your Mom's purse because I'm greedy. But if it turns up missing, you better show some proof when the cops come by to take a report. You can't just say "I think Mark has it, and unless you explain why you don't agree that he took it, put him in jail."

Well, ya could say that, but I think you'd probably get some funny looks, and possibly (hopefully?) Maced in the eyes.

Adanthar,

Are you referring to 2+2 poster/mod Nation?

yeah, search through the archives if you're curious

waddyba

https://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?H...xYjAzcfNzMM%3d