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Old 02-13-2018, 02:53 AM   #1
au2u
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Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

This thread was created to address an ongoing issue with cheating on Bovada and to investigate superuser possibilities.

I have posted my findings in the bovada regulars thread but as many have suggestion, It would be better to have this discussion here.

my original post:

I'd like to report a suspicious superuser-like behaviour at NLHE 5-10NL and 10-20NL
tables.
I suspect that someone was able to get access to RNG and can predict runouts.
It may sound like a bad beat crying post, I am only putting this out to see if there are
any other high stakes regs who have had same suspicion and can provide some information or hands.

Player's tendncies:
stats: 85-55 with 20-25 3bet
Plays daily between 10pm and 1am PST
in chat types ZZZZZZZZZZZZ and sends smiles every other hand
Gets it in behind most of the time and doesn't lose, almost like he can predict runouts.






Please post suspicios hands and findings, I`d like to collect as much data as possible and send it to bovada. I have also observed many other hands but don't have them recorded.
It almost seems like someone got an access or exploiting their RNG servers and is able to predict outcome of the hand. Player in question was not trying to hide it a month ago and was doing it very openly where now he seems to be more cautious.
I have 10 years of poker experience with last 3-4 years playing highstakes 1K+ and I can very well tell when it's a recreational player or someone who is folding 10 hands in a row just to stack off with 84o preflop and hit a boat.

There will be those on this forum saying that this happens to everyone and it's just a downswing, I only want to catch attention of those regs who also feel cheated and who think that last few months someone strange has been going on.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 02-14-2018 at 10:22 AM. Reason: 2 posts merged
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:02 AM   #2
JobRunsBetter
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Wow


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Quote:
Originally Posted by au2u;
.
I can very well tell when it's a recreational player or someone who is folding 10 hands in a row just to stack off with 84o preflop and hit a boat. .

This is kind of damning. I have some very suspicious 2.50/5 NL - 5/10 NL hands that I’ll need to dig up and poast. God I hope I tagged them.


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Last edited by Mike Haven; 02-14-2018 at 10:22 AM. Reason: 2 posts merged
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:53 AM   #3
MeleaB
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

You’re going to have to do a lot better than this. This isn’t even close to a proof. And you’re not helping your credibility by making up phrases like “exploiting their RNG servers.” Your plan in inviting others to post their own hand histories is going to result in nothing but a collection of bad beats, with little metric to gauge anything meaningful.

If a player does have access to information that allows him to know which hand would win at showdown then you’re going to have to rethink your approach. You’ll also need to distance yourself from sounding like a rigtard, because I doubt anyone credible would take you seriously based on what you’ve presented so far.
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:33 PM   #4
baannii4
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

the problem with this is that superusers don't need to do **** like this to crush you. they can make it extremely discreet and you will not know any better. that being said, there are probably superusers on ignition just based on the nature of the site and what a lot of people have said about the issue.

i really wish sites would actually take an active approach to ensuring their games are completely fair. just looking at this forum the past few weeks makes online poker look like a joke. how hard can it be to analyse the players winning the most?
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:59 PM   #5
tallonkeibler
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Everyone knows 8,4 is a perfectly fine hand to call all in pre-flop.
There's nothing suspicious here folks.
If you are suspicious, you are merely a (insert ad hominem attack here).
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:23 PM   #6
spew$
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeleaB View Post
You’re going to have to do a lot better than this. This isn’t even close to a proof. And you’re not helping your credibility by making up phrases like “exploiting their RNG servers.” Your plan in inviting others to post their own hand histories is going to result in nothing but a collection of bad beats, with little metric to gauge anything meaningful.

If a player does have access to information that allows him to know which hand would win at showdown then you’re going to have to rethink your approach. You’ll also need to distance yourself from sounding like a rigtard, because I doubt anyone credible would take you seriously based on what you’ve presented so far.
Do you think the the same about bots? Having others share their information is hugely important these days, especially as a lot of these sites have no security.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:23 PM   #7
dusk2dawn
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tallonkeibler View Post
Everyone knows 8,4 is a perfectly fine hand to call all in pre-flop.
There's nothing suspicious here folks.
If you are suspicious, you are merely a (insert ad hominem attack here).
This. These hands are ****ed up.
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:15 PM   #8
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Those hands do look suspicious. We need to let Druff know about this so he can talk about it on the next PFA radio show.
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:30 PM   #9
dusk2dawn
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Seriously, if these are real...this has to be a superuser. How do people see these and think anything else?
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:41 PM   #10
MeleaB
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spew$ View Post
Do you think the the same about bots? Having others share their information is hugely important these days, especially as a lot of these sites have no security.
Nothing in my post suggests that bots, collusion and other similar issues shouldn’t be taken seriously. The anti-bot group that I worked with in the past, and others who have been successful in identifying bots and the infamous superuser accounts took a slightly more regimented approach than posting bad beats and asking other to do the same.

What metric will you use to determine the usefulness of the bad beats that you receive? How will you distinguish between what is just a bad beat and what is superuser play?

Why do you think your superuser draws attention to himself by enabling you to identify him on an anon site each session by his chat tendencies?

Why do you think your superuser doesn’t show more guile in his play to hide his ability to win every hand?

As you’re able to identify him each session, what does the graph of all his aliases look like? How much above EV is he? Is it relatively variance-free? Presumably you have a fairly significant amount of data collected on him by now, please post the graph.
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:55 PM   #11
dusk2dawn
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

I stopped reading real quick in your post.

It's like you didn't even look at the hands.

Stop saying bad beats as if that is what a few of these are. They are worse than just bad beats. 84 is the worst, but a couple are just simply not ever being made by a human being at these stakes. PERIOD.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:31 PM   #12
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dusk2dawn View Post
I stopped reading real quick in your post.
Don’t worry about it. The post was predominantly aimed at posters capable of a small amount of critical thinking.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:08 PM   #13
cramble
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by au2u View Post
Please post suspicios hands and findings, I`d like to collect as much data as possible and send it to bovada. I have also observed many other hands but don't have them recorded.
It almost seems like someone got an access or exploiting their RNG servers and is able to predict outcome of the hand. Player in question was not trying to hide it a month ago and was doing it very openly where now he seems to be more cautious.
I have 10 years of poker experience with last 3-4 years playing highstakes 1K+ and I can very well tell when it's a recreational player or someone who is folding 10 hands in a row just to stack off with 84o preflop and hit a boat.

There will be those on this forum saying that this happens to everyone and it's just a downswing, I only want to catch attention of those regs who also feel cheated and who think that last few months someone strange has been going on.
These sites need to start encrypting the wires between their dedicated RNG servers and their poker servers.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:37 PM   #14
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

the hands listed do not line up with superuser play. in fact they just line up with the play of a tilting tard. other then bovada you can find play just like this on fishy sites like winamax, stars.fr etc.

as meleab pointed out it makes no sense for this anon player superuser to give himself away with a pointless identifier like his chat.

play just every few hands and getting it in pre or on the flop also does not line up with superuser play. ap/ub and more recently the superusers on the asian sites play tons of hands almost never raising and playing hands out to later streets to get max value from as many hands as possible. the hands listed in the op just do not line up with any of that.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:59 PM   #15
abracadabranuts
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Op how many hands do you have vs this opponent? you shouldn't have that many, If not as many post all hands, and post graph, otherwise it just looks like another standard thread posters will laugh off.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:14 PM   #16
azimma
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

I have a great plo hand to post. I luckily was not the victim and immediately left table

I don't even want to wait 24Hrs To Get The Hand history

I've never felt so much like people can see my cards/know what cards will run out in my poker career. I've been playing since years before black Friday and i really believe something is up.. I noticed it the most at 50plo but then I saw this hand at 200 and my jaw dropped. I play only plo for years, so I know wild hands but my gut is telling me something is wrong

It was blatant, and surprise surprise, it was bigstack vs bigstack


Is there a website i can plug it in or do I have to type it out myself?
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:21 PM   #17
Iceball
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeleaB View Post
Nothing in my post suggests that bots, collusion and other similar issues shouldn’t be taken seriously. The anti-bot group that I worked with in the past, and others who have been successful in identifying bots and the infamous superuser accounts took a slightly more regimented approach than posting bad beats and asking other to do the same.

What metric will you use to determine the usefulness of the bad beats that you receive? How will you distinguish between what is just a bad beat and what is superuser play?

Why do you think your superuser draws attention to himself by enabling you to identify him on an anon site each session by his chat tendencies?

Why do you think your superuser doesn’t show more guile in his play to hide his ability to win every hand?

As you’re able to identify him each session, what does the graph of all his aliases look like? How much above EV is he? Is it relatively variance-free? Presumably you have a fairly significant amount of data collected on him by now, please post the graph.
This. These are very good questions to ask.

Serious accusations require serious proof. The 84o hand is suspect, but the rest are not unexpected for an 85/55 player. Like the rest of us, even fish can get lucky.

In any case: accusations of superusing should be taken seriously and investigated, but the evidence provided - on its own - is just not enough.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:35 PM   #18
dusk2dawn
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

It's not enough to investigate the account of that player?

What ****ing hands are yall looking at in the OP? Do you not see what I see? It is a sick joke to sit here and act like that is tilt at those stakes. ****ing ridiculous.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:36 PM   #19
MeleaB
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azimma View Post
I have a great plo hand to post. I luckily was not the victim and immediately left table

I don't even want to wait 24Hrs To Get The Hand history

I've never felt so much like people can see my cards/know what cards will run out in my poker career. I've been playing since years before black Friday and i really believe something is up.. I noticed it the most at 50plo but then I saw this hand at 200 and my jaw dropped. I play only plo for years, so I know wild hands but my gut is telling me something is wrong

It was blatant, and surprise surprise, it was bigstack vs bigstack


Is there a website i can plug it in or do I have to type it out myself?
And so it begins...

What further proof is needed than an anecdote about one hand?
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:47 PM   #20
Iceball
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dusk2dawn View Post
It's not enough to investigate the account of that player?

What ****ing hands are yall looking at in the OP? Do you not see what I see? It is a sick joke to sit here and act like that is tilt at those stakes. ****ing ridiculous.
Enough to investigate further, but not enough to conclude "obvious superuser".
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:51 PM   #21
azimma
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6 handed 200plo


utg+1 -
Utg+2 K 8 6 A
Dealer 6 6 3 3

Utg1 call 2
Utg2 raise 9 ($383)
Dealer call 9 ($398)
Bb call
Utg1 call

Flop J45


Utg2 pot 35$
Dealer call

Turn 3

Utg2 pot $95
Dealer call

River 7

Utg2 pot $244
Dealer call allin, and cry


Very weird line and run out.

spaz.. Or? What do you think

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeleaB View Post
And so it begins...

What further proof is needed than an anecdote about one hand?
I said felt like there was something shady going on at Plo. im Not here to Proof Anything. I saw This hand, which led me to this thread and decided to share

Whats That Hurt?

Last edited by Mike Haven; 02-14-2018 at 10:29 AM. Reason: 2 posts merged
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:02 AM   #22
MeleaB
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azimma View Post
6 handed 200plo


utg+1 -
Utg+2 K 8 6 A
Dealer 6 6 3 3

Utg1 call 2
Utg2 raise 9 ($383)
Dealer call 9 ($398)
Bb call
Utg1 call

Flop J45


Utg2 pot 35$
Dealer call

Turn 3

Utg2 pot $95
Dealer call

River 7

Utg2 pot $244
Dealer call allin, and cry


Very weird line and run out.

spaz.. Or? What do you think
Damn. Where were you when Michael Josem was looking for help exposing PotRipper?
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:11 AM   #23
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

My good friend who plays 5/10 10/20 on Bovada religiously but does not participate here on 2+2 was just taking about how he thought some Villans knew his whole cards, or how the board was going to play out while he was at my house earlier playing in front of me. I’m going to ask to him to pull up some HHs and see if I can get him to post on here I know he has a lot of HHs at these stakes!


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Old 02-14-2018, 02:27 PM   #24
the4bettingmonk
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coinflipper View Post
the hands listed do not line up with superuser play. in fact they just line up with the play of a tilting tard. other then bovada you can find play just like this on fishy sites like winamax, stars.fr etc.

as meleab pointed out it makes no sense for this anon player superuser to give himself away with a pointless identifier like his chat.

play just every few hands and getting it in pre or on the flop also does not line up with superuser play. ap/ub and more recently the superusers on the asian sites play tons of hands almost never raising and playing hands out to later streets to get max value from as many hands as possible. the hands listed in the op just do not line up with any of that.
How can anyone say this after the Russ Hamilton scenario? Potripper called with 10 high to win an MTT and could easily have been caught - Prahlad still played against the account for months because it seemed so unlikely.

As a general rule perhaps people with access to superuser abilities on a site don't come from a poker background.

Very possible this account has a full-time job based on play style.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:47 PM   #25
dusk2dawn
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re: Bovada/Bodog Superuser / cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceball View Post
Enough to investigate further, but not enough to conclude "obvious superuser".
Fair enough, but that's ****ing something.

And if the basis of thinking for maleab or whoever else is that people have rights and tilting off horridly (UNBELIEVABLY HORRIDLY AND WITH TRAP-NUTS TO FOLLOW EACH TIME) is one of them without being investigated for cheating, then I straight up disagree with you. These hands in the OP alone should qualify for investigation straight off. And the user of this account, if he is really innocent, should be seriously buried alive if he has anything to say other than "haha I understand, those hands definitely look superuser, but I swear I was just tilting hard"

I know that's not how our justice system works. But our justice system ****ing sucks. Poker sites don't act in accordance with our justice system. Ignition/Bovada and WPN are black market companies. They don't ever care what rights the players have in accordance with American justice system. Where there's smoke there's fire and guilty until proven ****ing innocent should basically be the poker community's view about it right now. I seriously don't see how you can disagree.

Last edited by dusk2dawn; 02-14-2018 at 07:57 PM.
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