Sigh. Pulling up rando ******ed bad beats will never reveal anything. Bovada/iggy has the neat feature of revealing all cards 24 hours later. Show us villain stuffing 84o one hand, and then open folding AQ the next hand. i.e., showing ******ed hands does not demonstrate anything on its own. Showing erratic play, especially which seems to ignore hand rankings, would be the type of evidence you’d want to provide when outing a super user.

Its nearing 48 hours. Post the hole cards so we can find out once and for all. If he ever, EVER folds top pair while behind, then burn the witch

I have *literally* (using the original definition of the word) been dealt into hundreds and hundreds (probably well into the thousands) of hands on a par with these. Other experienced players have also witnessed first-hand far too many hands to remember of similar HHs.

OP claims to have played many sessions against this opponent. If that were the case then all he would have to do to come close to having some evidence would be to post a graph as described above. (However, OP also claimed many posters encouraged him to start this thread, whereas in reality just a single poster mentioned it, so don’t hold your beath.)

It’s not rocket science- post evidence (not bad beats or anecdotes) or quite likely this thread will get eaten by the Rigtard one.

Hopefully you reported these hands/tables to Bovada for review. But as others say these few hands mean nothing. You can see all cards (included mucked) 24 hrs after the hands on Bovada. You're clearly using a HUD and so likely have a lot of hands with this player. Post some graphs or hand histories to back up these statements.

Players spaz out and shove any two cards sometimes. It happens live too.

Also is their RNG certified as static or continuous shuffle? (don't know the official technical terms) If it's a continuous shuffle, the RNG is constantly shuffling, I believe during the hand, for the next card dealt. If it's a static shuffle, it's like live where the cards are dealt where they landed in the shuffle before the deal. If it's always shuffling there's no way the user could "know" the run out unless they were a super user. If it's static they "could" if they were a super user but then again why would they open shove to your raises? They could make more if they knew all the cards by getting you to build the pot anyways regardless of how the RNG operates. Just seems silly to say because the opponent spaz shoved pre flop they "knew" the cards to come.

I'm not saying to ignore it or not bother tracking your hands with these suspect plays, but you've got to have quite a hand history with this user to even provide any evidence to even consider possible unfair play. 3 or 4 spazzy hands means nothing.

Sorry for your losses OP, but to be fair, except the 84 hand, nothing else looks fishy to me.
I haven't even played 500K hands yet and I've seen many many BS like this 84o AIPF already!
So even that doesn't get my eyes!
Not to be offensive, but based on the language and mental state I see you post in, I just say you are a rec player yourself with bad-beat tilt issues.

Just my opinion though..

Out of all the ppl who are coming at the OP in this thread how many of you play 1k-2k nl and are familiar with the player pool at these stakes?

By actually thinking.

I don't even need to have looked at the hands (but I have) - all I need to know is that OP only posted 5 hands to know that you lose all credibility with your post. There are literally no combination of 5 hands that can make it certain there is a superuser. None. Suspicious? Sure. Very suspicious? Yes, I imagine there could be a set of 5 hands that would qualify as that. But to the point of "has to be a superuser" and "How do people see these and think anything else"? No, of course not.

I don't know who you think hyperbole like that, or ridiculous statements like "you might as well be defending Nazi Germany or slavery here." (from a WPN thread) is helping. Certainly not anyone actually trying to catch bots or superusers. All nonsense like that does is make thinking posters a little more dismissive of other claims, and encourage conspiracy theorists to post their anecdotes or single hand bad beats.

Cheating is a serious issue. This stuff isn't helpful. At all.

First of all, the comment from the WPN thread was based on the fact that a guy was acting like WPN was not in wrong at all when they STILL have the tournament late reg "loophole" open. I even said "ok even if you dismiss Joey's allegations about bots/collusion although I agree with Joey and his substantial stats he researched...it's the MTT so called loophole that really has me steaming" That's where yes, I absolutely believe it's like defending Hitler or slavery. Because the MTT thing is absolutely unacceptable and is not fixed and has been going on for a long time. It's unforgivable ****, and WPN doesn't care. People have banked off that crap and many other innocent, unknowing users have lost value from it. Damn right I will come hard about that.

Secondly, I shouldn't have said "has to be superuser"...I'm just pissed I keep seeing this type of stuff. I should have said though, "HAS TO CAUSE SUSPICION."

IN WHICH CASE, BOBO, how do they deal with such suspicion? Sample size shmample size. 5 absurdly played hands is consistent enough for me to at least know that support has contacted the user and asked to explain the thinking or something. These are big cash game hands. This isn't 2NL. It's not 10NL. It's not...ok no, not even at like 20 or 25NL would someone make these plays. These hands in OP are out of ordinary BIGTIME and I'm SO ****ING SICK of people like meleab and yourself really just trying to come off so level headed when there's CLEARLY something up here.

"Clearly something up? Where's your cold, hard, substantial evidence?"

Those 5 ****ing hands are substantial evidence in terms of PROBABLE CAUSE TO HAVE THE GUYS ACCOUNT FLAGGED BY SITE'S SECURITY AT A MINIMUM, and if you disagree, you are crazy. That's how I feel. So tired of yalls wanna be level headed bs.

If you can't see how comparing a MTT loophole to Hitler or slavery is ridiculous, never mind how offensive some people might find it, I don't know what else to tell you.

That sounds much more reasonable. And yet...

You've just gone back and said pretty much the exact same thing.

Gosh, yes, heaven forbid anyone try to be level-headed. It's so much more helpful when everyone unquestioningly grabs the pitchforks and torches and joins you, amirite?

I'm not sure who this is supposed to be quoting or paraphrasing, because no one in this thread has said anything even closely resembling this.

Oh, look, another strawman!

In case you're not familiar with the term - you're arguing against something no one has said.

Well, it's not wanna-be, and it's not BS. And I'll take it over ridiculous hyperbole any day. One is helpful, and one isn't. Do I need to explain which is which?

Calling the MTT thing a loophole is a joke. There's a reason I keep saying so called loophole - because leaving the capability open and not immediately banning all users who have ever abused it is absolutely among the worst and most unacceptable poker site practices ever. My Hitler/slavery comment was obviously indeed hyperbole and at this point I see it was out of line so please forgive me for going there, but I am just truly shocked how quick people are to defend a site that hasn't addressed that "loophole" in any way beyond a tweet in which they conveniently dubbed it a loophole rather than a major ****up, which is what it really is. The fact it exists is really bad, but the borderline ignoring it after fact is unfathomable, and people ignoring it while they say they have no problem with the site is where my distasteful hyperbole was generated.

Is this the MTT Loophole thread or the Bad Beat thread? (My set lost to runner, runner flush earlier and I was looking for the right place to post the HH.)

It's neither. It's the biggest yet luckiest spazfish mid-high stakes cash game bad beatz thread. Because there are thousands of hands each hs cash player has suffered like this that they can share. We're all waiting on yours still. No...set losing to rr flush doesn't qualify. A rr flush holding is far superior to any of villains holdings in OP

If this thread is going to stay up can we remove superuser from the title and specificy that the cheating is only suspected by one person

question,

what hand would need to be posted to be a valid superuser concern?

if no single hand can determine this then how many of that hand would you need posted to be concerned

if you have a number would those groups of hands all have to be from one single user or would you feel the same if it was the same size group of hands but from various users?

in online poker history how many cases of super users were actually confirmed besides
the one legendary case

I wouldn't mind seeing any links relevant to confirmed super using esp any links that led up to the legendary one. I was playing then but not a forum user at that time.

do you think the legendary one was the reason for that sites demise, as tomy understanding the DOJ was the final blow for reasons unrelated to superusing correct?

I guess I am in the camp of why couldn't there be super using by sites, but in the tent of I doubt most hands people post are results of a superuser, but sleeping snug in the sleeping bag of what would stop most unregulated sites from super using

interesting stuff to ponder

Why is this thread not locked? There is absolutely nothing suspicious about these hands. I’ve played with this guy. He’s just a fun player. OP just needs to move up where they respect his raises.

Mods can we move this thread where it belongs to BBV please?

So, did we decide it was a Superuser, or too close to call?

How would one even go about proving that cheating is taking place on an anonymous network? Even if you proved it then how could you be certain that those accounts were removed?

I have suspected something was fishy on Bovada/Ignition since Jan 1st 2017. The thread I posted this on was shut down.

2014 4bb/100
2015 8bb/100
2016 10bb/100
2017 4bb/100 - with -8EV in negative variance
2018 -4bb/100 - but not enough hands played as I transitioned to live. But the trend continues.

Most metrics are well off from normal. My winrate is so off that it is incredibly, astronomically improbable according to poker dope.. I pulled almost all my money off of online. An example is all my draws hit 20% less of the time. All my 12+ out draws hit only 1/4 of the time since 2017. I flop draws less often than I should. etc.

2 pro friends of mine cashed out of Bovada in 2017 for the same reasons

Someone I know who deals with many Bovada players heard similar complaints from good players.

I write down all HHs which were tough spots to review them later. It is not uncommon to get HHs in which the hand # doesn't exist. Maybe I wrote it down wrong. Dunno.

Anyways live feels more normal in frequencies than Ignition.

And queue Boba with the commentary.....

Is not someone capable of exploiting RNG servers better off doing other things with their time?

You're missing the point, which is that there is no such thing as an "RNG server." To anyone who understands the meaning of those terms, that phrase is laughable, and that's why the guy has no credibility.

Well this thread went ghost mode fast

probably silly question but if there is cheating would it be more likely in regular cash games or zone poker. Just curious what people think.

You have a really, really weird obsession with me. It seems that you think because I responded to a couple of your posts in the past, that now I'm interested in your PM and post updates on your situation. And given that the last time I commented on your post, you couldn't be bothered to respond, why would I do so again?

That's generally what happens when someone presents suspicions with little evidence, and then can't be bothered to answer any questions or respond further in 2 months.

What questions? More like attacks hoping I get emotional and call you a colorful metaphor.

About HUDs? It was a comment. Years ago Bovada did have a flaw in their program where you could track players by their ID login. They seem to have closed that up.