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Old 08-24-2018, 11:15 PM   #76
terrytibs
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Re: Bots on Winamax

anyone know what nationality twopandas is?
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Old 09-03-2018, 03:56 AM   #77
Rivertiger
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Re: Bots on Winamax

Hello,

There will be a class action against Winamax regarding TwoPandas, VictoriaMo and others.

Any players damaged by their cheating and Winamax's lack of security, should definitely join the action.

Our lawyer is Maître Justine ORIER, https://www.or-avocats.com/

You can find the lawsuit here: https://actions.vpourverdict.com/inf...65059831775230

There will also be updates on the french poker forum: https://www.clubpoker.net/forum-poke...iper/?page=106
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:35 AM   #78
ThudNBlunder
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Re: Bots on Winamax

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivertiger View Post
Hello,

There will be a class action against Winamax regarding TwoPandas, VictoriaMo and others.

Any players damaged by their cheating and Winamax's lack of security, should definitely join the action.

Our lawyer is Maître Justine ORIER, https://www.or-avocats.com/

You can find the lawsuit here: https://actions.vpourverdict.com/inf...65059831775230

There will also be updates on the french poker forum: https://www.clubpoker.net/forum-poke...iper/?page=106
Interesting, but I have to say ultimately doomed to failure. Provided Winamax have bot-detection protocols in place, they can't be held responsible for some slipping through the net with a GTO solver. How, may I ask, are they supposed to prove GTO solver usage to a legal standard? How many judges/ regulators even understand poker properly, let alone GTO? Are they going to make a ruling based on one group of players saying another bunch players are playing "too well"? How do you think that's going to stand up in court/ in front of a regulator? I'll tell you for nothing- it won't.

I have a particular interest in tackling the growth of GTO solver use, and I'd be very interested to hear any practical suggestions. This case is just an expensive publicity stunt- I'm going to assume the lawyer wanted their retainer up front....
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Old 09-27-2018, 10:36 AM   #79
sputnik_salad
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Re: Bots on Winamax

I've never used GTO software but I thought that programs like Piosolver took minutes/ hours to run their calculations. Would you not need a supercomputer to make a GTO bot, especially if you were multi-tabling?
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Old 10-04-2018, 09:25 AM   #80
Piconzaz
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Re: Bots on Winamax

Quote:
Originally Posted by sputnik_salad View Post
I've never used GTO software but I thought that programs like Piosolver took minutes/ hours to run their calculations. Would you not need a supercomputer to make a GTO bot, especially if you were multi-tabling?
Solutions can be pre-computed and stored. And at those depths, the size of the tree is drastically smaller.
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Old 10-09-2018, 08:13 PM   #81
jeffreyPL1
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Re: Bots on Winamax

Hello,

lately I haven`t been playing much online and I found this thread after reading a news on one of polish poker portals.

Quite a funny story to me as in 2016 when I was playing frequently on Winamax I sent an email to their support reporting both twopandas and philivey2694. After a couple hundred of games versus them it was quite obvious they are using bots/cooperating. Except of that it was clear that twopandas is using a gto bot they both came to 100s out of nowhere same week making a huge volume. I had a big experience with playing for RB as I made SNE on spins playing a huge volume within a few months so it was quite obvious that no one can play such level this way for such long as twopandas. Then to be sure I compared their playing hours and I was extemely confident they are cheaters.

Winamax replied probably without even checking them:

"After verification we can inform you that our security team have already completed an investigation into these players and have not found any evidence to confirm the suspicions reported.

As such no action will be taken against these players."

I don`t speak French so could anyone update me what`s going on atm? I`m quite curious what will be the result of this lawsuit.

Btw. there were more funny stories on Winamax, check this screen I made back in the days

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Old 10-10-2018, 03:03 AM   #82
Zarshka
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Re: Bots on Winamax

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreyPL1 View Post
Btw. there were more funny stories on Winamax, check this screen I made back in the days


What are you trying to show us ?
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:34 AM   #83
TouchOfEVil
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Re: Bots on Winamax

I would guess that he did infact spin a 6x
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:53 AM   #84
jeffreyPL1
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Re: Bots on Winamax

Zarshka, first player got no note and winamax pro badge, second got a badge, third I got a note on. So basically like 3 different players with the same nick. Here you have two on one table lol

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Old 10-11-2018, 03:05 AM   #85
WeeBey
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 42
Re: Bots on Winamax

There's one guy named Loosli and an other one named LoosIi.
And I guess the third guy is just one of the above guy with a bug of the team pro tag.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:46 PM   #86
DonCheckRaiso
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Re: Bots on Winamax

I would suggest it's R.I.P. online poker.
I was concerned, guess like everyone else too, about this since the first time I heard about Polaris back in the day.

I think there is no real solution to this.
Even if someone plays perfect GTO it is hard to have a solid case,
because one can argue it's not prohibited to play perfect GTO.
So you would have to prove it is a bot and not just someone who is playing on a superhuman level.

But it will get even worse I would suggest, because over time we will see some improvement and better fine tuning of solvers A.I.
You will have perfect GTO mixed with just few leaks.
The bots won't play perfect but close enough to ruin the game for the vast majority or maybe even for every human player.
Then it will be way to difficult to prove or to distinguish.

Looks like it takes the same route like competitive online video gaming.
Just look at counter-strike for example that got totally destroyed by cheating.
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:28 PM   #87
concerned pro
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Re: Bots on Winamax

any updates on the lawsuit?? are they finally banning bots?
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Old 12-07-2019, 03:00 PM   #88
washoe
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Re: Bots on Winamax

So winamax has done nothing against the bots?
No posts in this suggests nothing happened right?
How can this be?
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Old 12-07-2019, 06:40 PM   #89
washoe
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Re: Bots on Winamax

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel707 View Post
Hey all

https://pokerfuse.com/news/poker-roo...s-allegations/

Seems like Winamax finnally took action, as i been pointet out earlier was very clear Twopandas was a bot, overall its good for online poker, i never thought Winamax was going to take any action, i was even suspecious about it was a player inside Winamax, just to create more rake and keep games running.

So hands in they air for Winamax, i hope they sue thoose 2 players for botting, and we will have some kind of a refund.

Sorry my bad. Just read first and last page. What's the current situation with bots at winamax?
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