Hey guys, I just wanted to introduce myself as the new Betcoin rep for 2+2. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to ask in the thread or send me a private message. Good luck all!

On bitcointalk you said "I have a lot of experience in poker forums"

What is your username on other forums?

Will you be modifying your software to include lower stakes soon? Already, the smallest game is pretty large, .01/.02 is like a 14USD buyin currently...there should be smaller cash games for people like .001/.002

Betcoin owes me .4 - .5 Btc since last December and I still have gotten no winnings and no reply.

Almost exactly one year ago when the site was new, I won a Daily Coin PLO freeroll. IIRC there were 30-some players. I Never received any winnings. I sent an email to support. This entire time I've never received a reply. Bitcoin was not worth as much at the time and so I didn't remember until recently.

Here is the confirmation email for my support ticket from 12/28/2016

---- Reply above this line ----

xxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com,

Thank you for contacting us. This is an automated response confirming the receipt of your ticket. We usually respond to emails within a few hours, however, sometimes it can take up to 24 hours to get a response. When replying to future responses, please make sure that the Ticket ID is kept in the email subject so that we can track your replies.

If you have an account you can view your ticket at:

Subject: Ticket #69532: No prize after winning tournament Message: hi, a couple days ago playing poker i won a freeroll plo tournament, but i received no coupon or tournament bucks. I've even tried registering for all the steps tournaments but it seems I was issued nothing.

tournament name – Betcoin Daily Coin PLO Freeroll id – ? time – 4pm cst? date- 12/26 or 12/27

please check for me. thanks

Sincerely,

Betcoin Support


Perhaps I can get a response putting this out in public. Due to the nature of cryptocurrency, I'm curious what legal recourse I might have, if any.

There is no chance, ZERO, ZIP, NADA that you won 0.5btc in a freeroll. Especially a daily one. The most you could have won is probably 0.0005 btc. You probably got confused by the exchange rate. If they don't respond to you, hell, I'll send you the .0005 btc, give me your username.

It would have been .4-.5 chips, not Bitcoin itself.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I was just playing in the MoMoMo PLO series.

27$ plo, was doing good at the table.

3bet pot, I raised big on the flop, software crashes.

logged in again, all tournaments seem to be down/gone.

also only 28 players online.

what happened, where is my money?

Hey Gamblor,
This is definitely a high priority for us. The problem is the software provider does not offer us this ability at this time. It is something we are looking into.

Hey Bansky,
The entire network went down briefly this morning, but as you can see things are back up and running. Thanks for playing!

Hey Ares,
Had you posted this somewhere near the time of the event, I could have helped you find the tournament ID number and then looked into it. Obviously that would be impossible at this point. I can tell you that there was never a PLO freeroll that offered those kinds of winnings. So while I am sorry to hear about your situation, it is too late to even investigate at this point. We do still offer great freerolls on a daily basis and hopefully you will take advantage of them

When are you going to fix your sports book so we can see our pending wagers? This should be a priority, I def won't be betting any sports till that's functional

Also a top priority. Even more so.

Im asking again: where is my money? I was in a tournament, software went down and I got now info on whats happening.

Did the software come back up? Did the tournament continue? When a WPN tournament goes down, we follow WPN guidelines. You have given no information that could be used to respond to your inquiry. Please feel free to send me a private message or fill out a support ticket so we may look into it.

Hi,

You've ignored my question about who you are on both bitcointalk and twoplustwo. Am I being unreasonable?

I'd also like to ask if you currently play on Betcoin - and, if not, have you ever played on Betcoin?

Also, how long have you worked for Betcoin?


Just to keep everyone up to date, Betcoins "new poker room manager" posted the following on bitcointalk. ( here's a link )

Twitchy, if this is some kind of effort to verify that he is truly a rep of Bitcoin, you may notice he has a custom undertitle. We don't give those out unless we verify they are legit reps - in this case, by receiving an email from a betcoin.ag email address comfirming validity.

TwitchySeal - I am still waiting on the 2 bitcoins you owe me when you said I did not have a certain number of chips in my account on SWC and I provided screenshots to you. Please stop with all the high and mighty until you pay on your debts.

Are you ever going to repay the rakeback that Xaio stole that you guys promised to pay on his behalf? How about the table starter rb that was supposed to be coming back? How about the vip tier level freerolls?

I played on your site for 1.5 years but eventually enough is enough. You guys never do what you say you are going to do. You promised to pay me back .2btc in rakeback if I "kept playing". After I did then you changed your mind and didn't pay me anything. Also I had 10ish step tickets for various level of step tournaments. You guys discontinued the step tournaments but refused to reimburse me the tickets which were worth roughly .5btc or so.

I would highly recommend staying far far away from this site unless you like being lied to and/or stolen from.

I know they verified with you guys. I'm just trying to figure out if they actually went out and found someone to run the poker room, decided to just pay a regular player to be one, or if it's one of their long time managers assuming a new persona.

I have a bunch of other questions too, including those WichitaDM posted. But I find with Betcoin if you ask too many questions at once, they are even less likely to give a straight answer, or any answer realy.


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I also said the chips had to be real, not chips that just appeared in your account due to a glitch (which is what happened with the 22,000,000 chips lol).

Also, you never accepted the bet, so don't worry about paying me.

Hey Wichita, even though you seem to have made up your mind about us, I will respond to you out of courtesy. The Xiao players were paid for a couple months and then a statement was made saying that it would be discontinuing. He is the one who burned you. When you sign up for extras with an affiliate and that affiliate stops paying those extras it is not the site's responsibility to make up the payments. We agree that the entire Xiao situation was unfortunate and everyone involved, including us, lost a good deal because of it.

Like all promotions, table starter and VIP freerolls are subject to be discontinued at any time. The rapid increase in the price of bitcoin have made it unsustainable to run 3 $15,000 freerolls every month. We still run daily freerolls and have a lot of exciting new promotions going forward that you can private message me about.

As you can see, by my responding to your post, player concerns are a number 1 priority for me going forward. If you or anyone else who decides to play on our site has an issue, you can contact me directly and I will be as honest and helpful as I can possibly be.

Summary:
-Betcoin affiliate (xiaoxiao) got really good rakeback deal for his signups(way better than ant other affiliate)
-Eventually xiaoxiao lost all his players rakeback.
-Betcoin locks xiaoxiaos account for not paying players.
-Betcoin tells players they will pay them from what xiaoxiao would of normally be paid.
-Betcoin keeps all or most of the money for themselves.
-Betcoin banned/censored/ignored players who tried to get to the bottom of issue.

==================
Here are some facts on the xiaoxiao rakeback issue:

For several years, xiaoxiao was able to offer a very good rakeback deal - with a decent VIP level, players were earning a little more than 100% rakeback with ~70% of it coming from xiaoxiao. Most regs who hadn't signed up under xiaoxiao created new accounts because normal affiliates were being paid less than half of what xiaoxiao was actually returning to players. Here is one of xiaoxiaos original thread on Bitcointalk.

He also ran betcoinrakeback.com (now defunct)

Last spring ( april/may 2017) xiao degened everyones rakeback. After months of excuses and empty promises he admitted he was broke and came clean in this post.

Betcoin responded on their own forum in this thread. (cliffs below)

Betcoin posted saying that they had frozen xiaoxiaos account, and would be using the funds from his account to pay his players:

===========================

===========================

A couple months late, they decided that the funds that xiaoxiao would of normally been paid would not go to xiaoxiao, or the players that signed up under xiaoxiao. They would simply be kept by Betcoin:



They have since refused to respond to requests for explanation, blaming xiaoxiao for stealing all that money. (which he did steal, until they locked his account and began to keep it all for themselves)

Also, they still offer affiliate program: https://www.betcoin.ag/affiliates
==========================

There were 3 ways Betcoin could of handled this situation.

1) Do nothing. The relationship between an affiliate and a player is just that. Let the players and the affiliate work things out.

2) Do something. Lock the affiliates account and pay the players what the affiliate had previously promised - including the cut that the affiliate was keeping for themself until all players were made whole.

3) Lock the affiliate account, and keep all of the funds that would of otherwise been paid to the affiliate (and then the players) for themselves.

Betcoin chose option 3.

You will respond to me out of courtesy? How about returning the $10,000 in bitcoin that you stole from me between rakeback you promised to pay and didn't and the step tickets I was told I would be compensated for and yet never was?

This has to be one of the most dishonest posts in 2+2 history. You promised to pay the rakeback for 2 months thats true. You told people that if they raked a certain amount you would pay them. The problem is people played and then your site didn't pay people. I got paid exactly zero and I was one of the largest affected players. I have the screenshots still from the "support" tickets to prove it I can post.

You never had 3 $15000 a day freerolls or even 3 1btc a day freerolls back when bitcoin was cheap. This is another lie.

You don't even address the step tickets that you stole the value of from me. I am guessing this is because you have no excuse for this one.

Lastly you aren't being honest or helpful. Player concerns are not your #1 priority. I am quite certain you are here because most of the long time customers you had (like me a Ruby level VIP player) left because of the blatant dishonesty and theft that occurred there over the last year.

Bottom line is that it used to be a great place to play. Good games, good rakeback, fairly fast banking. In the last year though I don't know if managment changed or what but it went from that to what it is now. And what is now is an entity that has proven time and time again that they are willing to literally lie and steal from their customers. You would have to be a fool to put money or play on this site. It is just a matter of time until the next scam.

I posted many times in your forum and sent support tickets trying to get any of these issues resolved and you did nothing except to continue to lie. I am surprised that 2+2 is allowing you to post here to be honest because anyone with a brain knows that the site is as dishonest as a site can be.

1. All your rakeback owed by Betcoin was paid. Betcoin is not responsible for Xiao's rakeback deal.

2. You asked about the VIP level freerolls. Those were 1 BTC gtd. Hence the $15000.

3. You asked questions you didn't want answers to and I don't have time for trolling. If you would like to have a conversation about this, please send me a private message. If not, then clearly answers are not what you are looking for.

If any of our current players or potential players have a genuine issue, please let me know. I am here for you!

1a. Yes you were. You gave him a special deal that no other affiliate had and allowed people to make 2nd accounts to sign up under him.
1b. After he flaked out you said you would repay us all if we kept playing. We kept playing and you didn't repay us. Even if 1a isn't true you are totally in the wrong based on this.

2. When were there 1btc guaranteed freerolls? I would assume not since the price has been above 1k. I've never seen this ever in the 3 years I have been aware of you guys. If you mean the daily coin you had to pay .05 btc to buy into that, it wasn't a freeroll. Coming here acting like you had $15,000 daily freerolls (or really any freerolls at all for anything significant) is just typical dishonesty from you guys.

3. This isn't trolling. Your site literally stole thousands of dollars from me and tens of thousands of dollars from other players. Yes I wan't to have a conversation about this. That is why I made many forum posts on YOUR forum that you deleted and started a dozen support tickets that either got ignored or the responses were filled with lies. After a year of being ignored and stolen from I no longer feel like having these conversations in private is fruitful.

4. You once again ignore the fact you never reimbursed people for step tickets they had earned. I assume this is because it is egregious theft that you hope is just forgotten amongst the rest of the allegations that you have an actual flimsy defense for.

I know you want to come here and pretend all of your past sins didn't happen but they did. I long ago gave up on you actually making any of them right after numerous attempts.

Unlike you I have been a member of this forum for over 13 years. I have played online poker professionally and otherwise for 15 years. By mistreating me (and others) you created a lifetime enemy who will never stop telling people how brutally unethical you are. You made the bed, now sleep in it.

I understand the way you feel. I truly believe we could reach a mutual understanding. I am here to support the poker players in a way that they hadn't been supported previously. If you decide you would like to discuss, I am here. If not, then there is no reason for me to continue this so you do your thing and I'll do mine.