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Old 03-11-2008, 08:21 PM   #876
TheRaiderr
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by unluckyone View Post
The alexa rankings don't mean crap here.

After you have downloaded the software, why would you go back to their website?

everytime you load the software that popup about promo's loads a webpage.
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Old 03-11-2008, 08:29 PM   #877
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Guys we need to do something there all staying qiute lets make times to bombard the chat manager iam on european time good for that. Everyone is quite here this isint working . Lets ***** do something. Whos wants to organize?
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Old 03-11-2008, 08:37 PM   #878
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by TheRaiderr View Post
everytime you load the software that popup about promo's loads a webpage.
Use a sniffer and see where that popup comes from

It doesn't come from battlefieldpoker.com. It comes from pkrrm.com

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...ails/pkrrm.com
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Old 03-11-2008, 08:42 PM   #879
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by unluckyone View Post
If you are at a table in the client and contact the pkrmanager through chat, you will get someone employed by MGS (or one of their subsiduaries).

If you email the poker manager for your poker room (e.g. pokermanager@32red.com), you will get someone from your skin.

Hence the different responses.
But I initially contacted her at the table through chat.

I only e-mailed her later because she asked me to.
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Old 03-11-2008, 08:45 PM   #880
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Mmmm ok I must be wrong about that then.

I was pretty sure that the pkrmanagers in the client were based at MGS.
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Old 03-11-2008, 09:39 PM   #881
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by romanwarrior View Post
You guys don't get it do you, file a complaint with visa or mastercard, that processor for tusk has comitted fraud on grand scale, they will lock their merchant account. If there is still any money in their bank account visa/mastercard will hold it, I am sure that is better than some mysterious liquidator.
Maybe it's because my english is not that good but i still don't get what your plan is.
If you file a complaint with visa/mastercard they will lock some account? Do you mean that they will refuse to make any transactions with Tusk in the future and that will hurt Microgamings business?

Sorry I am probably way off here, but please explain it to me.
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Old 03-11-2008, 09:59 PM   #882
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

he thinks they can get the money back but i doubth they can and that will only cover the guys that put 100 on here and there.
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Old 03-11-2008, 10:42 PM   #883
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

The sites that are safest for deposits are the big UK bookies (like Will Hill, Ladbrokes and even to a lesser extent Bet Fred). They trade on every high street in the UK, have done for 30+ years and are worth a fortune. The poker rooms they run (and the player balances) are small beer to them. Of course Ladbrokes does charge an eye-watering 5.99% rake in cash games, but there you go.

Next come those sites that hold player funds in trust (preferably with a reputable bank).

Next would be those sites that are listed on some form of stock exchange -liquidity rules should mean they are OK barring some huge disaster (so I'd pick one that basically doesn't trade in the US if possible).

After that it's just down to reputations...

There is no legal reason that I know of why the monies used by players to fund their accounts can't be treated as just general (trading) debts of the gaming company that you lodge them with.
Whether they are treated as held in trust will depend upon the terms of the contract or possibly on the terms of third party contracts if those seek to impose terms upon say a licensee in order to protect the player base.
Also if the funds are held in a separate bank account with a name like 'players deposit funds' that might well be enough to give rise to an implied trust.

However if there is no express trust and the players funds are mixed in with the general monies of the company then the players get to join the back of the line.

If the funds are supposed to be held in trust but have either gone or been mixed with other funds or converted into other assets then there is a possible equitable remedy that involves 'tracing' the trust funds or their proceeds to get them back for the beneficiaries. This obviously can't be guaranteed however and if the funds can't be traced or an innocent third party without notice of the trust gets its hands on them, recovery would be difficult.

Our best bets are:
that the liquidation is a solvent one, or
the player funds were held in trust and are still available or traceable, or
that MGS steps in to make good any player account losses
(I think you can kiss unclaimed RB goodbye in all but perhaps the solvent liquidation scenario).

The players stuck in this for big $$$ need to get a lawyer in the same jurisdiction as the company to liase with the liquidator and if the funds are not held in trust and so do form part of the liquidated assets/estate prove their claims.
They may even have enough value of debt to have a say in who is appointed as liquidator or to replace the existing one.
They should also find out who are the secured creditors and liase with them to make sure that (if are funds are in trust) their receivers (if any are appointed)don't 'accidentally' take player funds and (if funds are not in trust) to see how much is likely to be left after they have satisfied their secure debts.


Obviously the extent to which MGS are prepared to come in as a white knight is possibly going to depend upon the reputational cost to them if they don't, so boycotts of MGS rooms/direct action etc would seem sensible steps to consider if they don't clarify matters in the near future
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Old 03-11-2008, 11:29 PM   #884
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by excession View Post
The sites that are safest for deposits are the big UK bookies (like Will Hill, Ladbrokes and even to a lesser extent Bet Fred). They trade on every high street in the UK, have done for 30+ years and are worth a fortune. The poker rooms they run (and the player balances) are small beer to them. Of course Ladbrokes does charge an eye-watering 5.99% rake in cash games, but there you go.
You should also mention Coral here - Formerly PartyGaming now an OnGame skin - IIRC they are a similarly huge UK bookmaker, and would cover all player deposits in a heartbeat to protect their B&M business should things go awry. IMO at least.

I guess the same is true of PaddyPower - another fairly big bookmaker, iPoker Skin - but of them I am not so knowlegable... I know there are two Coral Shops, two Will Hill shops and at least one Ladbrokes within 20 mins walk from my house, however I've not seen a PaddyPower shop - although they do advertize heavily on our TV.
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Old 03-12-2008, 12:00 AM   #885
Potabuser
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Paddy is irish, so maybe they only have shops
in Ireland?
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Old 03-12-2008, 12:02 AM   #886
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

They have something like 200 shops. They're not as large as the others mentioned, but I'd feel as secure with my cash there as pretty much anywhere (in the gaming industry at least).
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Old 03-12-2008, 12:24 AM   #887
DwarF
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Please, lets keep this thread ontopic and focus on trying to get our money back. And talk about safe pokerrooms or sportsbooks somewhere else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by excession View Post
Next come those sites that hold player funds in trust (preferably with a reputable bank).

Next would be those sites that are listed on some form of stock exchange -liquidity rules should mean they are OK barring some huge disaster (so I'd pick one that basically doesn't trade in the US if possible).

After that it's just down to reputations...

There is no legal reason that I know of why the monies used by players to fund their accounts can't be treated as just general (trading) debts of the gaming company that you lodge them with.
Whether they are treated as held in trust will depend upon the terms of the contract or possibly on the terms of third party contracts if those seek to impose terms upon say a licensee in order to protect the player base.
Also if the funds are held in a separate bank account with a name like 'players deposit funds' that might well be enough to give rise to an implied trust.

However if there is no express trust and the players funds are mixed in with the general monies of the company then the players get to join the back of the line.

If the funds are supposed to be held in trust but have either gone or been mixed with other funds or converted into other assets then there is a possible equitable remedy that involves 'tracing' the trust funds or their proceeds to get them back for the beneficiaries. This obviously can't be guaranteed however and if the funds can't be traced or an innocent third party without notice of the trust gets its hands on them, recovery would be difficult.

Our best bets are:
that the liquidation is a solvent one, or
the player funds were held in trust and are still available or traceable, or
that MGS steps in to make good any player account losses
(I think you can kiss unclaimed RB goodbye in all but perhaps the solvent liquidation scenario).

The players stuck in this for big $$$ need to get a lawyer in the same jurisdiction as the company to liase with the liquidator and if the funds are not held in trust and so do form part of the liquidated assets/estate prove their claims.
They may even have enough value of debt to have a say in who is appointed as liquidator or to replace the existing one.
They should also find out who are the secured creditors and liase with them to make sure that (if are funds are in trust) their receivers (if any are appointed)don't 'accidentally' take player funds and (if funds are not in trust) to see how much is likely to be left after they have satisfied their secure debts.


Obviously the extent to which MGS are prepared to come in as a white knight is possibly going to depend upon the reputational cost to them if they don't, so boycotts of MGS rooms/direct action etc would seem sensible steps to consider if they don't clarify matters in the near future
I believe, that this is great advice and I really hope that one of the highrollers that are affected by this mess is going to hire a lawyer who can do all the things that are listed above. Someone said earlier that it might be a good idea if players invested 2% of the money they had on R9, BFP or any other skin that closed so that someone can hire a lawyer who can help us.
I would definitely invest 2% of the money that Tusk owes me to do that, so if anyone is actually hiring a lawyer please feel free to PM me and provide me with details so I can help aswell. And I hope a lot of other people will, too.

Furthermore lets think of other good ways to make it clear to MGS that they need to do something if they don't want their reputation to suffer.
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:27 AM   #888
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

wow, bump this thread one time? First time I've seen it leave the 1st page of zoo. Scary scary scary, I'm never going to let this issue die.
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Old 03-12-2008, 04:35 AM   #889
Flopturnriver
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Hate to say it but by looking at the evidence at hand, it is going to take a miracle for you guys to get paid.
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Old 03-12-2008, 06:36 AM   #890
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

I searched for the microgaming location on their website and at another gambling portal and it says:

Microgaming Details
Address
Microgaming Systems Ltd.
MGS House
Circular Road
Douglas, Isle of Man IM1 IBL
United Kingdom

Website
www.microgaming.com

Email
sales@microgaming.com

Business Offices
+44 1624-647777

Fax
+44 1624-647778

But when you ask a poker manager where are they located or they say that they are not allowed to say or they say South Africa, so i guess that the software developers are at Isle of man and the poker related services are based in South Africa.

I investigate some other microgaming skins less known and some of them do not seemed to me very safe.

What you guys think about this kind of sites?

http://www.colosseumpoker.com/news/payout.asp

http://www.roxypoker.com/

Some have a 30 january of 2006 card shuffling audit by Pricewaterhousecoopers wich is clearly outdated, others have an ecogra seal wich is not as i thought a third party independent reviewer but it was founded by Microgaming, and they are licensed on kanahawke gaming comission wich some how do not looks like a very hard license to get or several times reviewed.

I didn't have heard the kanahawke gaming comission position on this Tusk situation are they aware of what happened?

Contact
Mailing Address:
Kahnawake Gaming Commission
P.O. Box 1799
Old Malone Highway
Kahnawake Mohawk Territory, QC J0L 1B0
CANADA
Fax Number: (450)635-1139
Email: kgc@mck.ca

I just dont want that this online scam stories keep repeating we have the right of safe and secure gambling.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:06 AM   #891
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

As much as it sucks guys you just have to wait until the legal guys give the parties involved the clearence to talk.

I am a UK based chartered accountant so have a good feel for how these things work. The finance profession is primarily concerned with covering their own ass and as such need to make sure that they legally have everything in hand before they act. Administrations can take a while. The parties concerned are WITHOUT A DOUBT currently deciding on the best action to take, it's obviously a big deal for the owners of TUSK and Microgaming as well as you guys. This action will fortunately/unfortunatley be governed by the law and what's ultimately best for the businesses involved.

For what it's worth i am very confident you guys will all get your money back, in full (no chance rakeback), through a variety of possible avenues. It will just take time.

99% of this thread is useless rumour spreading. The constant contacting of customer support will get you nowhere. As much as it sucks you need to sit tight and see what happens next.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:01 AM   #892
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideEdge View Post
As much as it sucks guys you just have to wait until the legal guys give the parties involved the clearence to talk.

I am a UK based chartered accountant so have a good feel for how these things work. The finance profession is primarily concerned with covering their own ass and as such need to make sure that they legally have everything in hand before they act. Administrations can take a while. The parties concerned are WITHOUT A DOUBT currently deciding on the best action to take, it's obviously a big deal for the owners of TUSK and Microgaming as well as you guys. This action will fortunately/unfortunatley be governed by the law and what's ultimately best for the businesses involved.

For what it's worth i am very confident you guys will all get your money back, in full (no chance rakeback), through a variety of possible avenues. It will just take time.

99% of this thread is useless rumour spreading. The constant contacting of customer support will get you nowhere. As much as it sucks you need to sit tight and see what happens next.
TY for this.
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Old 03-12-2008, 10:47 AM   #893
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideEdge View Post
As much as it sucks guys you just have to wait until the legal guys give the parties involved the clearence to talk.

I am a UK based chartered accountant so have a good feel for how these things work. The finance profession is primarily concerned with covering their own ass and as such need to make sure that they legally have everything in hand before they act. Administrations can take a while. The parties concerned are WITHOUT A DOUBT currently deciding on the best action to take, it's obviously a big deal for the owners of TUSK and Microgaming as well as you guys. This action will fortunately/unfortunatley be governed by the law and what's ultimately best for the businesses involved.

For what it's worth i am very confident you guys will all get your money back, in full (no chance rakeback), through a variety of possible avenues. It will just take time.

99% of this thread is useless rumour spreading. The constant contacting of customer support will get you nowhere. As much as it sucks you need to sit tight and see what happens next.
bump and indeed, thanks for this.... How long u think its going to take to get me monies?
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Old 03-12-2008, 10:57 AM   #894
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

well thats a nice idea SIT TIGHT, E A F D, funny when i go to pay my mortage an tell them just SIT TIGHT tusk has my money and is in liqudation ull get paid as soon as everything gets workd out they seem not to care a rats azz so pay the god dam money allraedy its going on week 3 weve allready sat god dam tight, im siting so god dam tight i couldnt stick a noodle up my butt
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Old 03-12-2008, 12:13 PM   #895
acethiest
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideEdge View Post
As much as it sucks guys you just have to wait until the legal guys give the parties involved the clearence to talk.

I am a UK based chartered accountant so have a good feel for how these things work. The finance profession is primarily concerned with covering their own ass and as such need to make sure that they legally have everything in hand before they act. Administrations can take a while. The parties concerned are WITHOUT A DOUBT currently deciding on the best action to take, it's obviously a big deal for the owners of TUSK and Microgaming as well as you guys. This action will fortunately/unfortunatley be governed by the law and what's ultimately best for the businesses involved.

For what it's worth i am very confident you guys will all get your money back, in full (no chance rakeback), through a variety of possible avenues. It will just take time.

99% of this thread is useless rumour spreading. The constant contacting of customer support will get you nowhere. As much as it sucks you need to sit tight and see what happens next.

If this was a normal company ok but its not... TUSK is run by a known criminal and the skins quite frankly are behaving very shady as well (why arn't they involved in the liquidating process)? Also turns out TUSK is located in vanatu, a location specifically picked because of the fact it is so difficult to prosecute. Oh and lets not forget that the company is in financial troubles which could mean the money isn't there anyways. Oh and finally, the fact this online poker is completely unregulated to begin with and as players we have little recourse, hard to find any lawyer who would know how to procede here. Plus the fact that no one, including the skins seem to understand how money is processed and how players would go about proving what they were owed. People are now realizing just how ridiculous this whole setup was, I would have never deposited money knowing that prima was not handling it.

Also I have no idea how you can be nearly 100% sure we will get our funds but at the same time be almost 100% sure we wont get rakeback. They both are held through tusk so this statement makes little sense. I personally don't care about my rakeback (maybe like 10 bucks in there). I just don't understand how you can be so confident about one but not the other.
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Old 03-12-2008, 12:56 PM   #896
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

so I have 10K in rednines, I cashed out yesterday, was that smart or not????? please anyone.... I still can reverse my withdrawal
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:05 PM   #897
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

i dont think it would matter but personaly i think u stupid to cash it out id rather have it on MG skin then sent on its way to tusk, i dont no if u heard but tusk is in liquidation so prob not to smart to send them money dont ya think, for all u no MG will take funds on skins an move them some other skin maybe if u funds are in cash out u may have less chance of getin them, again just my personal thought and i have no clue what is best
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:28 PM   #898
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Lightbulb Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigThangz View Post
well thats a nice idea SIT TIGHT, E A F D, funny when i go to pay my mortage an tell them just SIT TIGHT tusk has my money and is in liqudation ull get paid as soon as everything gets workd out they seem not to care a rats azz so pay the god dam money allraedy its going on week 3 weve allready sat god dam tight, im siting so god dam tight i couldnt stick a noodle up my butt

or you may just not get anything. it's an unregulated, off-shore business!!!!

what "rights" did you think you have?
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:31 PM   #899
astro
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

ok thanx... ijust reverse the withdrawal and have the 10K in my account, just hope u r right....
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:36 PM   #900
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by astro View Post
ok thanx... ijust reverse the withdrawal and have the 10K in my account, just hope u r right....
It is very unlikely to matter what you do in the end of the day. If you don't withdraw it then you can see it on your account balance, but that's probably the only difference. The account is already with Tusk, it doesn't move from the skins to Tusk like BigThangz is insinuating.
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