I highly doubt you will have your money back in a few days. Even if best case, the funds are ringed off in a trust and not a company asset the liquidator would have to contact you and find out to pay you, remembering Tusk's ability to process transactions with various ewallets has probably ceased when the process was started. A good result for the players would be to have assurances about money being returned within the next week or 2with payment made soon after. This seems unrealistic with Tusk not willing to talk to MGS or the skins.

The worst case of course is they were trying to make money with the player purses and incurred significant losses and the remaining money is deemed an asset because the company was using it as such.

I get the impression MGS are in a similar position to the skins and as much as everyone would like to blame them they are just the software supplier. As shown with the ongame network this means they no have no legal responsibility over the money. As the skins are no more than glorified affilates they also probably have no responsibility.

I also think anyone hoping to get the rakeback is dreaming. That is 100% a company asset.

Maybe one of the skins can give players a direct way to contact Tusk and find out who the liquidator is?

We still know jack **** so maybe its better not to cause to much panic.

According to the rake back; I believe rednines (or BFP whtvr) is responsible for the payout of my outstanding credits the moment things are cleared up....

And no, nobody can give u Tusk's contact information, the 're unreachable remember?

p.s Tusks Website is taken offline since the last time I checked (2.5 days ago)

Double: What Tusk website are you referring to? www.mypokerprofit.com is still operating.

Just wanted to let everyone in this thread know that I started a thread in "About the Forums" directed at Mason asking 2p2 to stop taking ads from MGS skins:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=147608

And a thread in Affiliates/Rakeback asking affiliates to stop promoting any MGS skin:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=147598

I think that these businesses that we support need to step up and support us as well.

That is what makes it unlikly to get it back in the next few days. You need the information to start flowing before you have a chance of getting it back.

Your assuming Battlefield and Rednines will survive this. Obviously if they do then your chances of getting the rakeback increase but how are they going to get back on the network? But as things currently stand you should just be happy and consider yourself lucky if you get your money back in a timely manner.

I'd be surprised if a liquidator started paying out withing a few weeks. I'd guess we're talking about months.

I don't see Microgaming taking any action on this soon. As previously mentioned, they've created players' trusts in two cases in the past when licensees went under. At this point, however, they don't even know whether Tusk is able to cover it's liabilities or not, let alone the amount of any shortfall. The liquidator will have to evaluate Tusk's financial position first.

A couple of interesting pages that came up on a Google search on Brisbane liquidators, don't know if they'll be useful to anyone:
- Information about insolvency for companies and their directors
- SV Partners: Insolvency, Liquidation, etc.


No one here ever found a website for Tusk itself, and all the ones that have been discussed here are still online, so if you know of one please let us know.

Someone needs to come up with the answer to the question of whether the player funds are held in trust and entitled to any kind of priority payout, or if those funds are general unsecured debts to poker skins who in turn are ultimately liable to their players. One of you guys with tens of thousands on the line might want to talk to an attorney about that.

Enron?

BIG companies can be the most reckless of all. Especially in a situation like this where money is coming in from all directions and only the middle hand knows all the total sums.

There seems to be a pretty good reason for MG not to accept the smallest of skins into the network, it would be hard to control. Then if something like Tusk comes in with all the money needed - what can MG do but accept? It seems like heaven's sent for the small skins too to get started with.

But then there's all that money in Tusk people's hands. Wouldn't you want to "invest" just a little bit - say, 10 million $ or so, double up and get much, MUCH richer?

I'm speculating of course. It may all be right there in the bank.

still no news? **** you tusk **** you

Ok 1 week of waiting is more than enough and here is what i am doing about it....

I have 50K tied up with this mess and going crazy. I live in Canada and talked to two lawyers in here and they recommended that i should purse this with an Australian lawyer since tusk is based there. I email more than few lawyer in there already and have not got anything useful yet. I will email more later tonight. And i will start calling if nothing by tomorrow afternoon.

Basically I email them a quick summary from http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=303
and explain the situation to them and mentioned there is a potential that many players want to join me and push forward with this to gather more info/ sue tusk or anything else legally that can push us slightly ahead of the line in the liquidation mass.

Here is the email address that I have created for that purpose FundInTusk@hotmail.com.
I will post any info that i think would be in any use to people in twoplustwo forum. If you want to join me in pursing this legally further please send me an email and rough figure of how much Tusk owes you. you know lawyer like big numbers.

Here is the only response that i have got so far. I was trying to make sure if Tusk is going bankrupt and anyway we can get a hold of it liquidator and if there is any trust fund that we have to register to be in line with other creditor.

"As you are no doubt aware, in the United States, companies are identified by
the appellation of 'Corporation'. Not so in Australia. If someone is in or
from Australia using 'Corporation', it is just an assumed name and means
nothing; it does not mean that it is a company nor is it a legal entity that
can be sued, or own property. It may of course be a US company, albeit
wholly owned by Talbot Group Holdings Pty Ltd, an Australian corporation,
and therefore a subsidiary of Talbot.

Just as every person has a home, so does a company. I would strongly
suggest that before you go any further, that you ask Micro, what
jurisdiction Tusk is a corporation of. If Micro has been dealing with them,
this is a fundamental question that Micro would have asked. Further, every
company, just like a person, has the equivalent of a birth certificate. I
would almost guarantee that Micro would also have asked for that
certificate, which would have identified which government body, in what
state or territory registered the creation of this company. If it was the
US, the state of preference is often Delaware, for example. Until you
identify where the company was created, you are guessing, and you will spend
time and money chasing false leads.

Find this out from Micro, or someone else, if you can."

Please email me or post here if you know the answer to his question. all i know if tusk investment corporation it is Australian base and i think it was founded in 2001. Am i correct on this one?

Many thanks, cross my finger i get my money or at least some of it..
Please don't email me and ask anymore question i will post anything i found on this forum.

That's a brilliant 1st post.

just an update on the lawyer advice in regard to TUSK.

In response to the lawyer question in the previous post
1) what jurisdiction Tusk is a corporation of?
2) which would have identified which government body, in what state or
territory registered the creation of this company?

I responded by
http://investing.businessweek.com/re...capId=26605338

His response was
"I note your advice that this statement has been published; "Company Overview Tusk Investment Corp. owns and operates online casinos and poker rooms. The company was founded in 2001 and is based in Australia. Tusk Investment Corp. operates as a subsidiary of Talbot Group Holdings Pty Ltd. Australia Founded in 2001"

Just to repeat my previous advice. This is nonsense. The phrase Tusk Investment Corp. is not the name and style of an Australian company. In any event, Micro is still the best source to clarify this. They would 'have' to ensure that they knew who or what it is that they were dealing with."


Please let me know if i am doing something stupid here. i email MGS as well to get some more info.

Thanks

The company may be registered in Vanuatu. I don't think anyone here knows for sure though.

can u explain why with all the skins getin froze most of them being rake break sites and u would figure most players using them for that reason, that there has been no less traffic on MG? i no some players may have accts on skins not linkd with TUSK but i dont see others getin funds froze runing right out to any of the skins and depoing not linkd to TUSK. just something i was wondering

because Tusk licenced all those rooms that were shut down

There are plenty of skins offering rakeback that weren't shut down.

I came here for some good news and don't feel like looking it up right now:

I posted the address somewhere around page 5-15 together with links to Global Approach BP's in PDF. Yesterday when I looked it up it was a domain for sale, now I cant even find it thru google.... it was something like www.tusk.au or .org but im not shure....

Hi fellow Canadian here, don't have 50k but still substantial amount I am counting on as I am moving in a few months.

I think it would be a great idea if all players on here stayed together. I too am going to make a new msn name so this can be discussed. I suggest all those involved do the same as well and would be happy to hear from you. Maybe even a seperate thread can be used for contact info? I also suggest all emails/hotmail names be new ones for privacy reasons.

PS, did the laywers discuss the possibility of going after prima or the skins (then prima/skins could go after tusk)? I am asking this because it seems that all player negotiations were done through prima/skins. Tusk was then contracted through them to handle our funds. I'm certainly happy to go after tusk but would like to know there are other recourses if they can't pay us.

The skins don't have your money, Tusk and MGS do. The skins are glorified affiliates.

sigh, this thread is getting more and more depressing. seriously though, microgaming needs to release a press release that tells us how much ****ing time they expect this to take. leaving us in the dark like this is horse ****.

also, is it possible that someone like microgaming will wait for the liquidators assessment, find out that tusk does (or maybe does not) have the funds to pay players and provide player funds on another skin while itself waiting on the liquidater to be reimbursed?

I would just like to point out, for those of you unfamiliar with real world business and such, that things move pretty slowly at a corporate level, and slower still when courts and governing agencies are involved. People expecting this to be resolved in a week have no real grasp of this reality.

Now what might happen is some arrangement may be arrived at where Prima reimburses the money with the expectation of getting it back when tusk is liquidated. Here is my semi-pedestrian understanding of where our money is in regards to liquidation: It is not a company asset, but our assets that they are holding. As such it should not be in danger, but it could be tied up until the courts (or liquidator, or whoever has final authority in this situation in Australia) works through everything. They would likely be one of the earliest items released if I am correct, because again, they are not Tusk assets so they are not in dispute.

So what are the other options? Well, Micro knows how much money is in our accounts, so they could conceivably front us that money until ours is released, but the details there are hairy and would probably take them a fair amount of time to work out. Or maybe they are working with the liquidator to speed up releasing our assets, possibly to another micro skin to disperse, but again something like that is a procedural nightmare because those are OUR assets, so moving them around without our express consent could be tricky.

Basically, this is a very complicated situation, and unlike in poker where complicated situations get resolved in a matter of minutes if not seconds, in the real world they take a lot of time to work themselves out.

I would also like to echo that while talking to lawyers is not a bad idea, if you think they will speed up getting your money back you are most likely mistaken. About the only way I could see them doing that is if they were able to push your agenda through the liquidator or communicate your express consent to say transfer the assets to another company to hold (like moving them to another skin). If Australia is like the US, you will not be able to do anything with Tusk if they are in bankruptcy. All new law suits are off until that matter is resolved. Additionally, the idea of bringing legal action against Micro at this point is just silly. The matter will likely be resolved (or at least the eventual resolution will be clear) before you ever get into court. If that resolution somehow doesn't involve getting our money back, THEN is the time to initiate legal action against other parties if it is viable. (Though you can certainly have lawyers looking at contingencies in that scenario, if that risk mitigation is worth the cost).

Here is what I think is possible at this point, and what I hope all parties are working towards: Getting the former skins back on the prima network through a new channel. How I imagine this would work is that players sign or click through an agreement to sell their assets tied up in Tusk to Micro for face value, which will be deposited in the new channel. That is, we get our money in the new system (whoever takes the place of Tusk, maybe even Micro themselves) by selling our assets in Tusk. The reason I think this could work is that I think our assets in Tusk are safe, just tied up. If we cannot get the old skins back on line, then doing the above with a different skin is feasible I believe. The details of doing something like this are pretty involved, so I could see it taking a week or a month to hammer them out. (for instance, there would have to be a lot of research and communication with the liquidator to establish that our assets are indeed safe and that the owners of those assets (us) could legally sell them while the holder of the assets is in liquidation.)

At any rate, I would like thank the skins for posting that they have no information. It is nice to see you guys say something even if it is that there is still no news.

I understand the skins do not have my money, my issue is with the fact that the skins/MGS chose to handle my money through tusk. To my knowledge tusk is not mentioned anywhere in the TOS and therefore is my skins problem not mine, as I deposited my money through the skin which in turn sent it to tusk. Obviously this is somewhat oversimplified. My point is I feel that MGS and the skins should be at least partly responsible here for putting my money with tusk.

I couldn't have said it better in regards to the glorified affiliate comment. It seems like my casino is useless, as they seem to be waiting around powerless, and unless things change quickly players would be better served advocating on their own behalf rather than waiting for news. I like many other players don't have the luxury of waiting, I need to start thinking about loans if nothing developes soon. I am just about ready to post on every poker message board I can find, to relay this story, find fellow players, and express my discontent with MGS.

Hi fnord,

Thanks for the insight. I think most people understand that it will be months before we see the money. But we have been told for three consecutive days now that information is coming out, yet it never does. It seems like no one is advocating for us, the skins seem happy or unable to do anything on our behalf. I need to have some idea of how safe my money is.

I was involved with jetset and quite frankly many two plus two posters claimed that my money was safe there too, they claimed that all we had to do was sit back and relax... luckily I only had a few hundred on as I played on jetset purely for social reasons.

In short we don't expect to see the money right away but we do expect to be given information.

Freezing the bank roll for poker players is like sabotageing a truckdrivers vehicle. The bank roll is the poker players tool. Taking legal actions is not silly in my opinion. They're not only owing us the frozen money, they should also be sued and legally forced to compensate for our estimated loss of income.

Lets all email them and ask them about our money someone good with words make a good letter and post it here and we all send it to them with pictures of our bankroll or something. Tusk is not mentioned anywhere on the skins so lets blame them. What do yous think?

generalenquiries@microgaming.com

Show your lawyer this web page:
http://www.jumbocorporation.com/docs...nouncement.pdf

Of note is that on the balance sheet, Tusk considers the players' purse as trade debt - not funds held in trust (which would not show on a balance sheet). I encourage you to stay on this.

Wow. That may be very bad (but I don't know, because I don't know the Australian liquidation laws, etc., but it really does not sound good.)