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Old 11-16-2017, 05:47 PM   #101
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

How exactly are your algorithms going to find bots?

And once you find them - I assume you won't be able to confiscate funds? Since it's decentralized and on the blockchain? If so, what's stopping me from trying to cheat as much as possible, and once discovered I can just withdraw and create a new account?
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Old 11-16-2017, 05:58 PM   #102
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Something is really really fishy here

Tonybet is owned by Betsson since 2016

https://betssonflash.com/2016/09/09/...uires-tonybet/

So... is this a "stolen" database from old Tonybet? So much with "keeping your data secure"...
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:25 PM   #103
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by imfromsweden View Post
And once you find them - I assume you won't be able to confiscate funds? Since it's decentralized and on the blockchain? If so, what's stopping me from trying to cheat as much as possible, and once discovered I can just withdraw and create a new account?
In my understanding you'll need to deposit chips you want to play with into your poker account. (Practically, deposits will be simple money transfers to their Ethereum wallet and they'll have an internal bookkeeping of accounts.) So withdrawals can be reviewed and refused if necessary. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imfromsweden View Post
How exactly are your algorithms going to find bots?
This is what I'm very curious about, too. As I explained in my earlier post the promise of anonymity seems to defeat this goal. These concerns haven't been answered so far.
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:41 PM   #104
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by karambolo
In my understanding you'll need to deposit chips you want to play with into your poker account. (Practically, deposits will be simple money transfers to their Ethereum wallet and they'll have an internal bookkeeping of accounts.) So withdrawals can be reviewed and refused if necessary. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Then:
Quote:
.1.1. You are not in control of your funds!
And the retort "Well how else would you police this", is really not acceptable. You can't claim to address problem, then not address it, and then point out the difficulty of addressing it.

This problem is cited and NOT solved by their model:
Quote:
Game integrity fears reached fever pitch during the Absolute Poker scandal when it was uncovered that there was systematic cheating via a backdoor entry that allowed some accounts to see other players hold cards.
As I understand their client is not transparent (ie open source):
Quote:
1.1.2. The technology is not transparent!
This is the most concerning. Winners aren't allowed to win. This was poker stars model and it was a player profit rape in disguise of making the game more fun. Will coin poker be profitable and skilled poker?
Quote:
1.1.4. Sharks swallow fish
Quote:
.2. How CoinPoker can tackle these problems
You don't tackle these problems
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:48 PM   #105
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by American Express View Post
Something is really really fishy here

Tonybet is owned by Betsson since 2016

https://betssonflash.com/2016/09/09/...uires-tonybet/

So... is this a "stolen" database from old Tonybet? So much with "keeping your data secure"...
good find.

Lots of funny stuff going on here. And by Coin Poker's own statements it seems that they need to clear a few licensing issues as well.... (legal stuff is the word he used)... but in the meantime buy up some chips gents and hopefully this site will actually come to fruition and you can play on it. Right now US is a maybe... and depending on "legal stuff" UK might not be a viable option as well. But players ability to buy chips is clean as a whistle.
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:56 AM   #106
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

@Coin_poker

Im in the US and Regulation is what we want to get away from

The US Govt doesn't care about cryptos being used to play poker... they are not even interested in regulating bitcoin because they know they can't ... they are not going to care about CHP tokens in the slightest


Why do you need permission or a legal team when we are using cryptos ?
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:46 AM   #107
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontiltinchicago View Post
@Coin_poker

Im in the US and Regulation is what we want to get away from

The US Govt doesn't care about cryptos being used to play poker... they are not even interested in regulating bitcoin because they know they can't ... they are not going to care about CHP tokens in the slightest


Why do you need permission or a legal team when we are using cryptos ?
This has been discussed already: because the system is not fully decentralized. Transactions are since they go on the Ethereum network. But there are central gaming server(s) (as in the case of traditional sites) that could be blocked by govs. In other words, govs cannot supervise trading but can gaming.
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Old 11-17-2017, 06:06 AM   #108
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by American Express View Post
Something is really really fishy here

Tonybet is owned by Betsson since 2016

https://betssonflash.com/2016/09/09/...uires-tonybet/

So... is this a "stolen" database from old Tonybet? So much with "keeping your data secure"...
Guys,

Slow down

Only TonyBet Lithuania (the local license and the betting shops) was sold to the Betsson Group. And the reason for it was mostly Tony’s political presence there.

We can 100% confirm that TonyBet.com (under a global Estonian license) and TonyBet.co.uk (under a UKGC license) are still successfully operated by us.
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Old 11-17-2017, 06:56 AM   #109
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by imfromsweden View Post
How exactly are your algorithms going to find bots?
We're going to use the information available to us to make our best judgment about folks who break the rules. I do not envisage that we will be publishing "exactly" how we do this, but rather, have a variety of techniques to mitigate the risk.
Quote:
And once you find them - I assume you won't be able to confiscate funds? Since it's decentralized and on the blockchain? If so, what's stopping me from trying to cheat as much as possible, and once discovered I can just withdraw and create a new account?
The player fund process will work like this:

1) Player adds their CHP wallet address to the CoinPoker system
2) Player transfers CHP tokens from their wallet to the CoinPoker wallet
3) The CoinPoker server records the transaction and updates the player's balance. Further game transactions are processed internally.

Thus, when your funds are ready to be used to play, they'll be processed and stored internally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karambolo View Post
...But there are central gaming server(s) (as in the case of traditional sites) that could be blocked by govs. In other words, govs cannot supervise trading but can gaming.
While it is true that this is theoretically possible, it is difficult to imagine governments trying to (let alone succeeding) block access to the CoinPoker servers - in the case of other online poker sites, they've typically only sought to block access to web domains.
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:31 AM   #110
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiXeR View Post
CoinPoker is not really what they are promoting to be, they are not decentralized poker site (they are hybrid of common poker sites and blockchain)
We are not claim or promote that CoinPoker is full decentralized poker site. As an opposite, our statements such: semi-decentralized or hybrid model are presented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
It claims to fix the problem of superuser accounts, but perfectly designed a back door for one.
We are not claiming that CoinPoker solves all centralized server problems. But we are here to start solving them.
So, yet again - CoinPoker is not fully decentralized, at least for now.
At the moment decentralized model is not realistic for some reasons: transactions cost and current speed of them doesn't allow to make decent playable full decentralized poker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imfromsweden View Post
How exactly are your algorithms going to find bots? And once you find them - I assume you won't be able to confiscate funds? Since it's decentralized and on the blockchain? If so, what's stopping me from trying to cheat as much as possible, and once discovered I can just withdraw and create a new account?
Finding bots would be a composition of various actions and findings, using tools we described in whitepaper, at section: 1.6. Fairplay (fairblock) program and initiatives.
CoinPoker will not use decentralized transactions for it's game play, so bots will be stopped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
This problem is cited and NOT solved by their model:
Quote:
Game integrity fears reached fever pitch during the Absolute Poker scandal when it was uncovered that there was systematic cheating via a backdoor entry that allowed some accounts to see other players hold cards.
In this section we named problems that poker world are currently facing. And we stated:
Quote:
Blockchain can solve this problem!
Meaning, at CoinPoker, we will work had and develop solutions to solve them all.

So far, we solved this one:
Quote:
The first concerns were whether random number
generators (RNG) are truly random or could be exploited. Until now, this has never been fully resolved and
remains an area of distrust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
As I understand their client is not transparent (ie open source).
In our case software shouldn't be open source in order to check RNG transparency validation. On the other hand open source software would be a enormous help for bots creation.
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Old 11-17-2017, 09:11 AM   #111
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coin_poker View Post
So far, we solved this one:




In our case software shouldn't be open source in order to check RNG transparency validation. On the other hand open source software would be a enormous help for bots creation.
You realise that you're claiming to solve a problem that doesn't exist? No-one doubts the RNG on any of the major sites. The players that do doubt it use highly irrational thought processes, have a look at the huge rigtard thread on 2+2.

You think those same rigtards - the guys that rationalise their lack of poker skills by telling themselves it's all one big conspiracy - are going to come to your site, lose, then shrug and go "well at least I lost to a fair RNG!". Of course not! They're going to come up with even more crazy theories because that's what they do.

I'm curious, was the RNG what Tony G was referring to in that tweet when he said "online poker is sick"?
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:45 AM   #112
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

For the 3rd time CoinPoker rep... who are the owners of this site? Easy answer.
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:57 AM   #113
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I don't think this will last.. Part of what makes Poker so great is being centralized and controlled to prevent cheating and fraud. Without that its just the wild west and people will collude the first day they can. The RNG sounds fishy.

I think the RNG should be open source so that everyone can see that it's not always picking numbers in the middle the majority of the time like 123[4567]890

Last edited by Mike Haven; 11-17-2017 at 01:22 PM. Reason: 2 posts merged
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:52 PM   #114
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xBIGx View Post
I don't think this will last.. Part of what makes Poker so great is being centralized and controlled to prevent cheating and fraud. Without that its just the wild west and people will collude the first day they can. The RNG sounds fishy.
This project has a centralized security model. The RNG is perfectly provably secure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xBIGx View Post
I think the RNG should be open source so that everyone can see that it's not always picking numbers in the middle the majority of the time like 123[4567]890
If the players publically commit their random number contributions then the coinpoker contribution to the random number cannot be frauded. And so its (should be if done this way) verifiable what number they contributed.
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:28 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Imp View Post
You realise that you're claiming to solve a problem that doesn't exist? No-one doubts the RNG on any of the major sites. The players that do doubt it use highly irrational thought processes, have a look at the huge rigtard thread on 2+2.

You think those same rigtards - the guys that rationalise their lack of poker skills by telling themselves it's all one big conspiracy - are going to come to your site, lose, then shrug and go "well at least I lost to a fair RNG!". Of course not! They're going to come up with even more crazy theories because that's what they do.

I'm curious, was the RNG what Tony G was referring to in that tweet when he said "online poker is sick"?
The only reason you think its a problem that doesn't exist is because its very hard to nearly impossible to detect .

I've been a professional poker player since 2006 . Do I know if I'm actually getting my fair share of winnings online? Of course not , no one really does .

Do I think online poker is rigged? NO ... Does anyone know for sure ? NO

Major sites are raising rake , bringing in "luck" games and lowering rewards for players . Not to mention governments taxing it to the gills or banning it entirely.

Cryptocurrency and the blockchain is EXACTLY what online poker needs!

I welcome the transparent RNG and real-time payouts.

Online poker needs a reboot and I hope coinpoker does it .

Quote:
Originally Posted by xBIGx View Post
I don't think this will last.. Part of what makes Poker so great is being centralized and controlled to prevent cheating and fraud. Without that its just the wild west and people will collude the first day they can. The RNG sounds fishy.

I think the RNG should be open source so that everyone can see that it's not always picking numbers in the middle the majority of the time like 123[4567]890
This couldn't be further from the truth . Usually players themselves have to detect any type of cheating and some sites don't really care.

If hand history is recorded on the blockchain it will be easier to detect and thus reduce the number of people that are going to try.

you can't really comment on the RNG itself right now because it is not even fully live yet

Quote:
Originally Posted by karambolo View Post
This has been discussed already: because the system is not fully decentralized. Transactions are since they go on the Ethereum network. But there are central gaming server(s) (as in the case of traditional sites) that could be blocked by govs. In other words, govs cannot supervise trading but can gaming.
What on earth are you talking about ?

I play in the US and Bovada , ACR and BetOnline cannot be blocked by the government - They tried but there's always a way to work around it and these sites for the past 6 years have been doing just that

Last edited by Mike Haven; 11-17-2017 at 03:24 PM. Reason: 3 posts merged
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Old 11-17-2017, 03:32 PM   #116
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontiltinchicago View Post
The only reason you think its a problem that doesn't exist is because its very hard to nearly impossible to detect .

I've been a professional poker player since 2006 . Do I know if I'm actually getting my fair share of winnings online? Of course not , no one really does .

Do I think online poker is rigged? NO ... Does anyone know for sure ? NO

Major sites are raising rake , bringing in "luck" games and lowering rewards for players . Not to mention governments taxing it to the gills or banning it entirely.

Cryptocurrency and the blockchain is EXACTLY what online poker needs!

I welcome the transparent RNG and real-time payouts.
Securing the profitability of the games (for skilled players) is not necessarily solely tied to the RNG.

Quote:
This couldn't be further from the truth . Usually players themselves have to detect any type of cheating and some sites don't really care.

If hand history is recorded on the blockchain it will be easier to detect and thus reduce the number of people that are going to try.

you can't really comment on the RNG itself right now because it is not even fully live yet
A blockchain isn't really for recording data/records, but rather keeping it immutable. The RNG here is provably secure for fairness sakes (other than the back door superuser thing but sites share that problem traditionally).
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:21 PM   #117
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by imfromsweden View Post
How exactly are your algorithms going to find bots?

And once you find them - I assume you won't be able to confiscate funds? Since it's decentralized and on the blockchain? If so, what's stopping me from trying to cheat as much as possible, and once discovered I can just withdraw and create a new account?
Hello thank you for your message,
The CoinPoker Fairplay security and fraud system will monitor user actions to identify and eliminate unethical/robot play on a per account basis. For example, our algorithm will analyze all actions and characteristics of each account to distinguish between human and bot-like behavior. This will help identify unfair play, malignant solutions and programs, bots etc. Techniques that will be used are explained in details in our White Paper, Section 1.6:
https://coinpoker.com/downloads/coin....pdf?v20171116
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:23 PM   #118
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by karambolo View Post
In my understanding you'll need to deposit chips you want to play with into your poker account. (Practically, deposits will be simple money transfers to their Ethereum wallet and they'll have an internal bookkeeping of accounts.) So withdrawals can be reviewed and refused if necessary. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


This is what I'm very curious about, too. As I explained in my earlier post the promise of anonymity seems to defeat this goal. These concerns haven't been answered so far.
Hello thanks for your message,
I hope this will answer your question concerning fair play:
The CoinPoker Fairplay security and fraud system will monitor user actions to identify and eliminate unethical/robot play on a per account basis. For example, our algorithm will analyze all actions and characteristics of each account to distinguish between human and bot-like behavior. This will help identify unfair play, malignant solutions and programs, bots etc. Techniques that will be used are explained in details in our White Paper, Section 1.6:
https://coinpoker.com/downloads/coin....pdf?v20171116
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:25 PM   #119
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontiltinchicago View Post
@Coin_poker

Im in the US and Regulation is what we want to get away from

The US Govt doesn't care about cryptos being used to play poker... they are not even interested in regulating bitcoin because they know they can't ... they are not going to care about CHP tokens in the slightest


Why do you need permission or a legal team when we are using cryptos ?
After we finally got solid legal advice – we want to clarify, that we don’t see problems for US citizens to get coins. However, this still not guarantee 100% chance that U.S. citizens or residents will be able play at the site.
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:33 PM   #120
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

So if its decentralized... how would you enforce against cheaters?
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:50 PM   #121
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xBIGx View Post
So if its decentralized... how would you enforce against cheaters?
Hello thank you for your message,
Actually, we are presenting a semi-decentralized / hybrid model in our project.
Concerning the bots, Blockchain technology will help by identifying the unethical accounts. The CoinPoker fairplay and security system will monitor user actions to identify and eliminate unethical/robot play on a per account basis. For example, our algorithm will analyze all actions and each account to distinguish between human and bot-like behavior. You can find all information on our fairplay program in section 1.6 of our White Paper:
https://coinpoker.com/downloads/coin....pdf?v20171116
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:08 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
Securing the profitability of the games (for skilled players) is not necessarily solely tied to the RNG.


A blockchain isn't really for recording data/records, but rather keeping it immutable. The RNG here is provably secure for fairness sakes (other than the back door superuser thing but sites share that problem traditionally).
It has to record the data/records first before it becomes immutable ....Hello McFly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
Securing the profitability of the games (for skilled players) is not necessarily solely tied to the RNG.
No sh*t Sherlock
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:19 PM   #123
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontiltinchicago View Post
It has to record the data/records first before it becomes immutable ....Hello McFly
You can store them elsewhere and store the hashes in the blockchain. This would make more sense if i've said it correctly.
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:50 PM   #124
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

You are derailing here is my response go there: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=514
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Old 11-17-2017, 09:17 PM   #125
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coin_poker View Post
After we finally got solid legal advice – we want to clarify, that we don’t see problems for US citizens to get coins. However, this still not guarantee 100% chance that U.S. citizens or residents will be able play at the site.


Why wouldn't US residents be able to play ?

If you are going to side with the government or stupid poker laws I am not buying any tokens
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