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Old 11-10-2017, 12:52 PM   #51
JohnCleese
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

So when did Josem leave PS? Having him on board will certainly inspire some 2p2ers to try this out.

Problem is I can't imagine there'll be any fish online at all?? Maybe lower rake while you get off the ground to something ultra low? Like 1%?

Are you relying solely on word of mouth at this moment?
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Old 11-10-2017, 01:32 PM   #52
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coin_poker View Post
Thank you! We also believe that CoinPoker, Blockchain technology and cryptocurrencies will be the solution to unite Poker markets again!
Yeah Pokerstars turned into greedy pigs and made luck games like spin and gos and other bad features that benefit the company , not the player

They screwed over their supernova players and raised rake.

I can't play there ,but even if I could, I wouldn't

CryptoCurrency poker is exactly what poker needs
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Old 11-10-2017, 02:15 PM   #53
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Omaha 2/5 letting me buy in for 10,000
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:50 AM   #54
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCleese View Post
So when did Josem leave PS? Having him on board will certainly inspire some 2p2ers to try this out.

Problem is I can't imagine there'll be any fish online at all?? Maybe lower rake while you get off the ground to something ultra low? Like 1%?

Are you relying solely on word of mouth at this moment?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontiltinchicago View Post
Yeah Pokerstars turned into greedy pigs and made luck games like spin and gos and other bad features that benefit the company , not the player

They screwed over their supernova players and raised rake.

I can't play there ,but even if I could, I wouldn't

CryptoCurrency poker is exactly what poker needs
Josem was instrumental in selling the unfavorable changes to the players. And many were quite upset with him for turning on them: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...anges-1485671/

He has also spoken out against decentralizing poker many times: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=136

its crucial to note because in the crypto decentralization is the crux of security, and coinpoker's head of security doesn't believe it. It's a blatant security leak in itself.


This is why I am asking about coinpoker's mandate in regard to security which from the players perspective really means profitability (ie I don't mind if their are bots or cheaters on site X if site X is more profitable to play on than site Y)

The stated policies in the whitepaper are about guarding the recreational players from the skilled players: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...1&postcount=35

Is there no interest in providing a skilled game in which the best players win the money?

Or is the mission to provide the same marketing plan as Poker Stars, which is to create rake policies that hide the fact that the effective rake is so high that no one can win?

Also this is stated:
Quote:
intelligent fairplay security and fraud systems.
Are we given any information about these, or we must take the security for granted?
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:11 PM   #55
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCleese View Post
So when did Josem leave PS? Having him on board will certainly inspire some 2p2ers to try this out.

Problem is I can't imagine there'll be any fish online at all?? Maybe lower rake while you get off the ground to something ultra low? Like 1%?

Are you relying solely on word of mouth at this moment?
Hello thank you for your message,
We believe our offer will be attractive to recreational players as instead of providing traditional rakeback, CoinPoker will use a Blockchain based community reward system to transfer each month no less than 25% of tokens collected via the smart contracts back to the community, so it will insure that the recreational players are competing on an even playing field, instead of delivering rakeback to a selected community of members.
I am not sure about the exact date that Josem left PS but I will ask him to come precise that information for you!
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:26 PM   #56
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontiltinchicago View Post
Yeah Pokerstars turned into greedy pigs and made luck games like spin and gos and other bad features that benefit the company , not the player

They screwed over their supernova players and raised rake.

I can't play there ,but even if I could, I wouldn't

CryptoCurrency poker is exactly what poker needs
Thank you for your message,
We totally agree! Do not hesitate to try out our app with play money and leave us your feedbacks
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:40 PM   #57
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCleese View Post
So when did Josem leave PS? Having him on board will certainly inspire some 2p2ers to try this out.
Josem's been a notorious cheerleader for Stars post-Amaya, having him on board is a red flag if anything.
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Old 11-11-2017, 06:27 PM   #58
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Can we see how much fund has been raised so far?
Also can we see notable investors?

Looks promissing, but it doesn't seem like you brought peoples attention.

GL
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Old 11-11-2017, 08:09 PM   #59
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenjac View Post
Can we see how much fund has been raised so far?
Also can we see notable investors?

Looks promissing, but it doesn't seem like you brought peoples attention.

GL
Thank you for your message, The pre-ICO will start on November 15th until December 1st, so there are no fund raised so far as the process has not begun yet. Please feel free to let us know any feedback or comments and we will be back with more updates
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Old 11-11-2017, 08:47 PM   #60
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Josem may be a nice guy (I don't know him) but his stance on a lot of Pokerstars' recent changes makes me far more concerned that he is involved in this project than if he wasn't.

That's not meant as an attack on you Josem we just have vastly different opinions about how stars have conducted themselves over the past few years.
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Old 11-11-2017, 08:51 PM   #61
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmarrsouth View Post
How closely associated to TonyBet are you guys?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmarrsouth View Post
And your current association to TonyBet itself is?
Just to confirm I am not trolling and it was, and still is, a serious question. Unsure if my previous post won’t be answered, or you are preparing an answer internally which would be posted at a later date.

I have never signed up to receive the CoinPoker newsletter on CoinPoker.com, or elsewhere, however I received the following email regarding CoinPoker on the 9th Nov 2017 at about 6am EST, with the subject 🔜POKER CRYPTOREVOLUTION🔜:



It ends with the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoinPoker email
You received this email because you signed up on our website or made purchase from us.
Despite what it says, I have not signed up, nor made a purchase. I have visited the website a couple of times, but it’s unlikely you are getting email addresses just from that.

I noticed that the email was sent to an email address that I have only ever used for 1 site, never used it elsewhere, and (I thought) that only the site in question (and employees), along with my hosting provider, knew of this email address. The site is TonyBet. I have had an account there for years, only contacted their support about one issue, and receive a marketing email from them (info@tonybet.com) about once a week since signing up.

One other person who I know plays on TonyBet also received this email about CoinPoker, he has never signed up to receive the newsletter from CoinPoker.

It is possible that my hosting provider was compromised in some way (or I was myself) and just this email address happened to be sent/sold to another gaming/gambling based site, but I think that’s unlikely.

I emailed TonyBet asking them to check if there has been a breach of their email database as giving out such emails addresses & personal information would seem to go against their own privacy policy: https://tonybet.com/security

So again, how closely associated to TonyBet are you guys?
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:10 PM   #62
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

I really hope anyone who thinks poker on ETH is a good idea is following what's been going on with Parity Wallet this week.
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:33 AM   #63
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Windows Defender SmartScreen prevented an unrecognized app from starting. Running this app might put your PC at risk.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:41 AM   #64
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
Thx. I have a reasonable understanding of the back end security you mean to implement now I believe. Now in regard to the rest of the model...

I notice in your whitepaper you are talking about the smart money players and the recreational players. Your marketing narrative is eerily similar (or perfectly so) to Poker Stars. Poker Stars has a distinct defined approach to the industry, they are well known and stated as wanting to take skilled money from the winning players and use it to provide unskilled jackpot based gambling games.

This is a binary question, yes or no...are you providing the same model?

I would like to know, because you can't simultaneously tend to the skilled players, while also not attending to the skilled players. They are polar opposite directions and for all I can tell, and I can quote your whitepaper, you have perfectly stated that you will NOT be protecting the profitability of the games.

Please be clear and not political, because their is no logical response that allows for both the protection and non protection of profitable games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitepaper
Sharks swallow fish

Yet another issue with online poker is that “smart” money tends to dominate recreational players so there is a high burn rate for the recreational segment of the market. If recreational players are nurtured well from the outset then they become loyal participants and add significantly to the ecosystem, but managing new players is essential.

Smart money comes in a range of formats. The “ethically” based players that have developed a high
level of skill in the game and the “unethical” or shady side of the industry including algorithmic/machine learning bots that prey on recreational players and teams colluding by having more than one player at a table.

In fact, the online poker scene has matured significantly from the early days and the combination of the above factors means that recreational players have never been at a greater disadvantage.
Winning accounts are often fueled by rakeback incentives and other loyalties further exacerbating their advantage.
Please explain this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitepaper
The knowledge gap between recreational and smart money has been a driving force in killing of liquidity for many years. It’s been a significant reason for the plateauing of online poker. Blockchain can reduce the gap between the smart and recreational money by identifying the unethical poker accounts thereby eliminating or reducing this segment of the market. Of course, there is always a place in poker for skill based ethical players and they should be celebrated accordingly!
+1
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Old 11-12-2017, 03:18 PM   #65
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCleese View Post
So when did Josem leave PS?
The last time I did any meaningful work for PokerStars was in mid-September 2016. With the notice period that came along with the conclusion of my employment there, I was theoretically an employee until the end of March 2017. My full professional history is online here: http://linkedin.com/in/michaeljosem
Quote:
Originally Posted by pontylad View Post
Josem may be a nice guy (I don't know him) but his stance on a lot of Pokerstars' recent changes makes me far more concerned that he is involved in this project than if he wasn't.
I think it’s important to differentiate between views that I held (and hold!) in a personal capacity, and views that I expressed on behalf of a broader organisation. These days, I have no particular interest in defending whatever PokerStars has done, but rather, am interested in doing things that contribute towards poker being a fun, safe and competitive game that anyone can play.

That’s fundamentally why I am interested in being a part of this project: because CoinPoker seems to be making a real attempt at providing games that can be trusted. I think I can contribute to that, and thus, I’m excited to do that.

To use an analogy, my relationship with PokerStars has concluded. I have enough respect for that “ex” that I wish them well in their future endeavours, but fundamentally, it’s a relationship that has concluded* for me. I’ve learned from that relationship, and have moved on.

*Except I still play in their Isle of Man-based basketball team, where we’re hardly discussing much work stuff.
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Old 11-12-2017, 04:44 PM   #66
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

I do not know where to bring this problem to, but it exists and awareness should be brought it to it. I somewhat feel bad cluttering up an attempt to bring a new option to the players, but at the same time I see glaring problems with this proposal and I would suggest that in the crypto-world this would be seen as a scam.

You are using the word decentralized as a buzz word. But its supposed to mean security in which there are no central points of failure. You literally solved security problems with central points of failure. You are using decentralized as a marketing tactic. You claimed in your whitepaper, and I already cited it, that super user accounts are a problem you are addressing, but you are not, you created a security hole in this regard.

Your whitepaper needs to be updated in regard to at least those two points or I'll be vocally against this project and tout it as scam (I am but one person though and I don't mean to continually spam this thread, I mean I'll tout it elsewhere to my networks).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem
I think it’s important to differentiate between views that I held (and hold!) in a personal capacity,
In regard to Josem, I think its also important to differentiate, but you haven't done that. Your answer is political again. You sold unfavorable changes to the players: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...anges-1485671/

It wasn't that the players believed you, or that they do believe, it was that they had no choice but to watch the rest of the ignorant recreational players believe that poker could be more fun if it was less profitable. Tony G just tweeted today "Poker is sick". You and others used Pokerstars to make poker sick.

Again I already quoted the coinpoker whitepaper, it is very perfectly written to suggest that you mean to police the winning players in the name of protecting recreationals-we know this just translates to games with less skill. The problem is obvious, you have moved from an influential role as PS PR to what amounts to a similar role but with more sweeping power to continue with the same mandate and a different job title.

This isn't security, its politics. And the problem is that these projects that arise as ico's require GREAT scrutiny because there are many many scams in this industry. Lastly I am not convinced yet that there is proper communication between the developers of this project and the poker player related co-creators.
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Old 11-12-2017, 04:48 PM   #67
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

My basic question would be what is your feeling on hiring Danial Negraneau as a PR guy (as a hypothetical). Or in other words, from an investor standpoint of members of 2p2 and the greater poker community, what assurances are there that you will be committed to offering a profitable and not over raked game?

And if you point to rake % I will hold you as disingenuous.

I think its the most relevant question from the players' perspective, and if you cannot convince the players that the product is favorable to them, then I think investors that may or may not be players have no valuable product to invest in.

Edit: Security is a function of integrity. And I can't stop shaking my head in this regard.

Last edited by Nooseknot; 11-12-2017 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 11-12-2017, 04:55 PM   #68
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
In regard to Josem, I think its also important to differentiate, but you haven't done that. Your answer is political again. You sold unfavorable changes to the players: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...anges-1485671/
You’ve linked to an announcement from three years ago by PokerStars. That was written, reviewed and decided by PokerStars’ senior leadership at that time. If you have questions about PokerStars’ statements at that time, you should contact PokerStars. I am no longer able to speak on their behalf.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
My basic question would be what is your feeling on hiring Danial Negraneau as a PR guy (as a hypothetical).
I have no view on Daniel’s role at PokerStars. My focus as a member of the CoinPoker team is in ensuring that players can have a fun, safe and competitive game by reducing the risk of being harmed by cheating.
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Old 11-12-2017, 05:07 PM   #69
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

I would rather have this dialogue for example in the decentralized poker thread, so it can be hashed out without me threatening my existence here. You have too much pull. The best I can wade through your political response that doesn't address my accurate and reasonable points, is that you didn't stand by what you were releasing as your statements.

Security is a function of integrity, it can't be any other way.

And you are free to speak of yourself now, and you aren't really making statements that address this obvious problem. Do you think Negraneau will have a problem in the near future, because of his past actions? He LITERALLY told the players higher rake makes the games more profitable.

No one is having fun with over raked games.

If you are still touting this false attitude you are either being disingenuous or you have a misconception of what its like from the players' perspective. Either way it doesn't' matter, from a players standpoint security means profitability. What does it matter if there are no cheaters or bots but the games are effectively chance and not skilled? Thats not even the whole problem, with a centralized security solution, the players are not privy to whether or not the policing is really effective.

This ico creates a black box for its security problems and calls it a decentralized solution. This is literally a scam in the crypto world. Here is the person widely held as the creator of the movement "trust third parties are security holes" http://nakamotoinstitute.org/trusted-third-parties/

Edit: Josem you have a history of mocking the decentralized poker/crypto movement, that's one link I have and there are many more references from you. You are claiming a 180, and I think it's reasonable to scrutinize you as the head of security for a crypto based project for this reason.
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Old 11-12-2017, 05:24 PM   #70
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Josem, I guess the question is - if CoinPoker follows your personal beliefs about what a poker site should be (high rake/no rewards/punish winning players/divert fish to casino games etc) why should anyone choose it over Pokerstars? It'll be a Pokerstars clone but with worse software and no players.

If CoinPoker isn't following your personal beliefs then why attach yourself to the project?
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:41 PM   #71
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmarrsouth View Post
Just to confirm I am not trolling and it was, and still is, a serious question. Unsure if my previous post won’t be answered, or you are preparing an answer internally which would be posted at a later date.

I have never signed up to receive the CoinPoker newsletter on CoinPoker.com, or elsewhere, however I received the following email regarding CoinPoker on the 9th Nov 2017 at about 6am EST, with the subject 🔜POKER CRYPTOREVOLUTION🔜:



It ends with the following:



Despite what it says, I have not signed up, nor made a purchase. I have visited the website a couple of times, but it’s unlikely you are getting email addresses just from that.

I noticed that the email was sent to an email address that I have only ever used for 1 site, never used it elsewhere, and (I thought) that only the site in question (and employees), along with my hosting provider, knew of this email address. The site is TonyBet. I have had an account there for years, only contacted their support about one issue, and receive a marketing email from them (info@tonybet.com) about once a week since signing up.

One other person who I know plays on TonyBet also received this email about CoinPoker, he has never signed up to receive the newsletter from CoinPoker.

It is possible that my hosting provider was compromised in some way (or I was myself) and just this email address happened to be sent/sold to another gaming/gambling based site, but I think that’s unlikely.

I emailed TonyBet asking them to check if there has been a breach of their email database as giving out such emails addresses & personal information would seem to go against their own privacy policy: https://tonybet.com/security

So again, how closely associated to TonyBet are you guys?
Hello thank you for your message,
Please give us a day to come back to you and answer. Not that we do not want to answer, but please you can trust that we will get back to you very shortly!
Thanks!
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:56 PM   #72
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Coin rep you've done a good job answering questions but you missed post 50 about who are the owners.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:07 AM   #73
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Exclamation Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

We have news! Our bounty program is LIVE.
Do you know somebody who might be interested in our project? Great! Invite your friends to join CoinPoker and we’ll reward you with 5% of all the CHiPs your referees purchase, AND 10% of all the fees your referees pay at SpectroCoin!
See how it can be done here: https://coinpoker.com/bounties.
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:12 AM   #74
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmarrsouth View Post
Just to confirm I am not trolling and it was, and still is, a serious question. Unsure if my previous post won’t be answered, or you are preparing an answer internally which would be posted at a later date.

I have never signed up to receive the CoinPoker newsletter on CoinPoker.com, or elsewhere, however I received the following email regarding CoinPoker on the 9th Nov 2017 at about 6am EST, with the subject 🔜POKER CRYPTOREVOLUTION🔜:



It ends with the following:



Despite what it says, I have not signed up, nor made a purchase. I have visited the website a couple of times, but it’s unlikely you are getting email addresses just from that.

I noticed that the email was sent to an email address that I have only ever used for 1 site, never used it elsewhere, and (I thought) that only the site in question (and employees), along with my hosting provider, knew of this email address. The site is TonyBet. I have had an account there for years, only contacted their support about one issue, and receive a marketing email from them (info@tonybet.com) about once a week since signing up.

One other person who I know plays on TonyBet also received this email about CoinPoker, he has never signed up to receive the newsletter from CoinPoker.

It is possible that my hosting provider was compromised in some way (or I was myself) and just this email address happened to be sent/sold to another gaming/gambling based site, but I think that’s unlikely.

I emailed TonyBet asking them to check if there has been a breach of their email database as giving out such emails addresses & personal information would seem to go against their own privacy policy: https://tonybet.com/security

So again, how closely associated to TonyBet are you guys?
TonyG recently confirmed himself that he is a backer of coinpoker, not sure why rep pretended not to know about his involvement.
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:54 AM   #75
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konkurentas View Post
TonyG recently confirmed himself that he is a backer of coinpoker, not sure why rep pretended not to know about his involvement.
Well rep didn't answer me when I asked twice about whom the owners are. For me that's a big red flag.
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