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Old 01-05-2018, 06:40 PM   #276
Nooseknot
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLou View Post
^^ just saw same thing. would someone please explain what the hell the stuff quoted below means in simple terms?
Bah, I think he it means the initial investors lose out on the ethereum based gains. They paid maybe $500 per 3000 chps (excluding bonuses) which are now implicitly $1000 for 3000 chps (because ethereum price has rose substantially). Coinpoker will adjust to the next stage to perhaps .5 eth for 3000 chps instead of 1 eth for 3000 chps.

Therefore devaluing the initial investors investment

I am terrible at deciphering this stuff and I'm not using perfectly accurate numbers, but from the complaints on the blog, it sees thats what they did.

I feel there is a management hole here. The software is commendable, the game flow is fast in relation.

I think at worst the increased ethereum price could be somehow factored in over time. As I understand, they just devalued everyone's investment, including free roll chips won....

Quote:
Before: “It will be exactly that price nO matter if eth will be 700for example” (screenshot is attached)

And now you plan to reduce the ETH price x4, maybe more? Really sweet to the Pre-ICO investors and bounty hunters. After the ETH prices have been the same on your website for months now.

Now: “However, with regards to the current ETH price, we will be unable to keep these prices”

Wow, ETH has grown, this certainly was unexpected!
Quote:
The newly announced pricing scheme of the ICO was in contrast to everything they stated during the pre-ICO, screwing over all people that invested early in this project. It was not stated during the pre-ICO that the ICO price could be adjusted. The opposite was communicated. This is absolutely unacceptable and after such a decision I would strongly suggest not to invest in this company. It’s sad because the software is awesome and the developers do a very good job but such a management is a no-go.
https://medium.com/@CoinPoker/coinpo...s-53057d5dd27f
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Old 01-05-2018, 07:48 PM   #277
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
Bah, I think he it means the initial investors lose out on the ethereum based gains. They paid maybe $500 per 3000 chps (excluding bonuses) which are now implicitly $1000 for 3000 chps (because ethereum price has rose substantially). Coinpoker will adjust to the next stage to perhaps .5 eth for 3000 chps instead of 1 eth for 3000 chps.

Therefore devaluing the initial investors investment

I am terrible at deciphering this stuff and I'm not using perfectly accurate numbers, but from the complaints on the blog, it sees thats what they did.

I feel there is a management hole here. The software is commendable, the game flow is fast in relation.

I think at worst the increased ethereum price could be somehow factored in over time. As I understand, they just devalued everyone's investment, including free roll chips won....




https://medium.com/@CoinPoker/coinpo...s-53057d5dd27f

Chose a volatile currency and didn't think of this before? Did they expect ETH to stay the same forever? What makes this site better than Global or ACR or the traditional model? ETH has a competitor coming up that's using Java coding instead of the hard to learn ETH coding. Got a very bumpy road ahead. Just hope if anything goes wrong you all would actually get a refund.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:42 PM   #278
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

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Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
I am no longer worried about the unwillingness to be forthcoming on the owners/investors. We are witnessing the birth of free market poker and in free market banking theory there is no regulator to call for transparency of these aspects and related aspects.

Players can make objections but there is no axiom to suggest that opaqueness is an indication of scammy intentions.

In regard to the specific issue of not paying out crashed freerolls, there could definitely be a rational that is not immediately obvious and I think this will spark the beginning of an interesting dialogue on the relation of the ico chps to the equity they represent (regardless).

(oops just reading bobo fett's sentiments, basically makes my point)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...02#msg27413702
QFT!!

Great points my man.
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:46 PM   #279
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
Absolutely not. It's perfectly acceptable in the new world. You can add and withdrawal (once the ico stage is over) at will. Chps will sell on the market and the market price will reflect the honesty of the token.

This business model allows for this sister site to be shadow backed. Given the subtle association with Tony G, its far more likely this project is extremely well backed. It is not a free market view to think that a sites ownership, investorship, or reserves should be (forced to be) publicly auditable.
WTF man... is this the same guy that posted in the first 100 posts of this thread?

Did you land yourself a job by any chance?

All businesses should be willing to provide the names of ownership to the public. How would people feel if the owner was Ray Bitar for an example.
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:58 PM   #280
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

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Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
WTF man... is this the same guy that posted in the first 100 posts of this thread?

Did you land yourself a job by any chance?

All businesses should be willing to provide the names of ownership to the public. How would people feel if the owner was Ray Bitar for an example.
I think the thing to understand, is that, they are.. on the website. The team is listed right there on the front page.

Being so very, very early on in the project. While there may-well be a single person or persons, with a final say/more decision making authority.. perhaps that structure is still being decided upon fully.

In the modern-world, honestly with most start-up companies, this isn't at all uncommon!

I don't believe there is a bad reason, or even a PR related reason, that they aren't just naming some individual "owner".

I get it, we're poker players.. we try and analyze/make conclusions based on incomplete information, which is exactly the thought process I see in this thread.. having spent such a significant amount of time playing, following this project, and engaging in the chatrooms, my instincts are all positive.. based on the incomplete information I have at hand.

Furthermore; there is a lot of collective good reputation on that team to base some opinions on.

Last edited by DomGov; 01-06-2018 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:59 PM   #281
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

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Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
WTF man... is this the same guy that posted in the first 100 posts of this thread?

Did you land yourself a job by any chance?

All businesses should be willing to provide the names of ownership to the public. How would people feel if the owner was Ray Bitar for an example.


On a free market, this is legitimate. We can't simultaneously ask for free markets and regulation. Players are free to choose this site, or not. I made a relevant post in the decentralization of poker thread in nvg. Eventually the token for this poker casino will land on the exchanges and there will be a price established.

This price will outline the quality of the site, from the purview of the most prophetic oracle that exists: the market.

That price will tell the truth as an aggregation of all of the available information that the market players have available.

It is not a requirement that the owners and investors information is made transparent, nor is that a free market based request/sentiment. To require banks to be auditable is to imply regulation. Regulation is what taints the price signals. Only price signals clear of political noise can truly tell the players which sites are worthy and which aren't.

(no job, still independent )
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:18 PM   #282
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

If you invested in the pre-ico and are upset about the eth repricing, it's possible to get refunded your initial eth investment. Contact Tony G via telegram (he can be found in the coinpoker telegram group chat).
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:29 PM   #283
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

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Originally Posted by efficacy View Post
If you invested in the pre-ico and are upset about the eth repricing, it's possible to get refunded your initial eth investment. Contact Tony G via telegram (he can be found in the coinpoker telegram group chat).
omg im on it.
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Old 01-06-2018, 05:38 PM   #284
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In order to participate in the ICO, coinpoker requires you to send them your FIRST NAME, LASTNAME, E-MAIL ADDRESS and E-WALLET ADDRESS. See:
https://coinpoker.com/whitelist

Insisting that we provide our FIST NAME and LASTNAME to purchase CHP in the ICO completely goes against allowing us to remain anonymous. (i.e. Coinpoker can link our names to our private e-wallet address).

I understand that you may be asking for our names because you have a rule that an investor may not buy more than 1000ETH. But Coinpoker could police this via the E-MAIL field, without needing to know our FIRST NAMES and LASTNAMES.

I ask that Coinpoker remove the condition to provide our names from a pre-requisition to participate in the ICO. This directly contradicts the foundation of your site - being allowed to play poker anonymously.

Coinpoker, please comment and let us know if this requirement will be removed.

Also, I have a concern about the security of the site. I feel that Two-factor authentication login should be added immediately. Without this, poker players are at risk that their accounts are hacked and no poker player can keep any meaningful sum of money safely on the site.

Coinpoker - please tell us when two-factor authentication will be added? I feel that it should be done BEFORE your site opens for CHP deposits, as an urgent priority.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 01-06-2018 at 08:44 PM. Reason: 2 posts merged
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:00 PM   #285
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

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Originally Posted by tripleMerged View Post

Coinpoker, please comment
lolz. dont hold your breath.

They are either pretty dense in the PR / Customer service area.

Or

Are making so much money selling pixels, that they just dont really give a chit about poker or poker players.

Or

forgot their 2+2 password
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:45 PM   #286
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

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Originally Posted by PTLou View Post
lolz. dont hold your breath.

They are either pretty dense in the PR / Customer service area.

Or

Are making so much money selling pixels, that they just dont really give a chit about poker or poker players.

Or

forgot their 2+2 password
Is all three an option?
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:13 AM   #287
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Yesterday I've finished 5th in Monday 5000gtd tournament but my winnings r not transferred.This is very far from final product.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:15 AM   #288
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Ok. I'm monitoring both dialogues in this thread and the bitcoinforumtalk one. I'm going to make a suggestion. We can note:

Quote:
-Recently the chps stoped getting paid out in some players accounts when they win tourneys.
-Management decided to devalue the CHPS effectively ripping off the players AND the investors.
-players that made the money and final tabled didn't receive payouts based on coinpoker bugs
-The all in hole card percentages do not display correctly.
-There has been no proper comment on the owners and management, and although on the one hand I stick up for "free banking" principles in this regard, in light of everything else I think it at least deserves to be addressed.
-For all I could tell, and I could be mistaken (difficult to get a response), the free roll promotional tourneys had no payouts listed and I couldn't find the "players entered" beyond a certain finishing position listed (ie I couldn't determine the payouts or who was getting paid what).
Certainly there should be no devaluation of the CHPS, otherwise what is being offered?
Certainly players that spent the time testing the software and were promised CHPS if they won should be paid them.

Certainly your all in hole card %'s should be expected to be correct otherwise why would players believe your RNG was programmed to be secure?

And there is zero customer support or rapport with the players, which is by far the easiest aspect to deliver (and OBVIOUSLY the most important aspect).

My recommendation, given I have followed all of the emerging projects and have a great interest in the success of this new age of poker, is that this thread locked until a reasonable coinpoker rep addresses these issues in a reasonable communicative manner.

Each of the points I have listed are in themselves alarming. To put them all together especially the devaluation of the CHPS, is indefensible. I couldn't recommend this as an investment. I have no reason to believe they won't abandon the project and the investors and take the profits that were made (especially from the ethereum gains).

I'm recommending to any mod or admin from 2p2, with any credibility I might have, that there is a likelihood this site will damage your reputation. Obviously not in a huge way, but deciding if this is a good thing or a bad thing for this forum's business, they MUST show something better than this. I am COMPLETELY not comfortable with it.

It's is a crying shame because the software is very slick and appealing.

Also I nudged Isabelle mercier (nicely) on twitter for help on clarification, as she had answered me once before, and she ignored me, which makes me suspect she is second guessing staking her reputation on the project.

edit: also this is what I was talking about in regard to Josem's security role. He already told me has nothing to do with anything else. But this is a problem because the players can be cheated and ripped off and the way the division of duties is set all parties whether developers, Josem as head of "gaming/player" based security, and the owners can each wash their hands of it and claim "plausible deniability".

Last edited by Nooseknot; 01-09-2018 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:27 AM   #289
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

This changes everything.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:30 AM   #290
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

I want to make a 2nd post because i want this point to stand out. Again, perhaps I have this wrong, but there is no one here to clarify.

Investors bought in at 1 eth per 3000 CHPS. The eth price was around 300 usd at the time and is now 1200. Coinpoker said they are going to adjust how much the new CHPS cost based on this increase in eth price.

If coinpoker decides newly released chips will be sold at 300 today, then it substainly rips off the investors that already bought in. It also rips off any players that were lead to believe that they were playing to win CHPS at the rate they were initially sold at.

It is a crime.

Imagine you invest 10,000usd in eth and those eth were now implicitly worth 30,000 usd.

Your CHPS are now worth 66% less than if you didn't invest, meaning you are unlikely to even recoup your loss.

Meanwhile the people running the project just made a management decision that siphoned 66% of the investors expected gain into their own pockets.

And if this project fails? You keep that money? WTF is going on here?

edit: the CHPS are supposed to be finite, but if you are already adjusting the value of them then why would players believe that in the future you won't (effectively) fork the project and increase the supply.

Also what if a player can't pass your validation, do they lose the months worth of CHPS they accrued? How can I know I will even qualify for verification? Seems like players will get to the end of the month just to find out their chips are worthless to them because they cannot claim them.

The last post from the rep was 6 days ago and this project has received 6 million dollars in investments which has risen to 18 million as I understand. They are in the MIDDLE of their initial coin offering. It is ridiculous to not have daily support at this time.

Last edited by Nooseknot; 01-09-2018 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:01 AM   #291
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Nooseknot you are now calling a spade a spade. I get that you are very excited about this project and other crypto currency projects but there comes a time when you have to gauge things by what they are (facts) and not how you'd like them to be. (hope) Good on you for doing so.

For myself I saw this product as a likely pump and dump after the rep didn't answer my question on who the owners were. Others need more convincing.
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:38 AM   #292
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
Nooseknot you are now calling a spade a spade. I get that you are very excited about this project and other crypto currency projects but there comes a time when you have to gauge things by what they are (facts) and not how you'd like them to be. (hope) Good on you for doing so.

For myself I saw this product as a likely pump and dump after the rep didn't answer my question on who the owners were. Others need more convincing.
I saw this project as an interest free loan that's now worth $18M... lol the least they could do is refund the $6M and make it not seem like a scam.
I'm sure they sold the ETH and just waiting for it to drop so they could rebuy and refund.
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Old 01-09-2018, 10:08 AM   #293
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Or they can give free chips to pre ICO investors to equal denomination.
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Old 01-09-2018, 10:30 AM   #294
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Ok I was just in the telegram chat. The support there is also non-existent, but oddly enough Tony G came in. And i am quite certain it was him. The staff and players there said he is available there the other day. It was quick and he seemed like Tony G (as if he was on a yacht partying). He said the players that didn't get paid would, and said things like "if you want your money back its all good" and "its crypto tech".

Coinpoker released an update:

Quote:
Remember asking for that hand re-player on our app? Well guess what – we’re launching it with today’s update! Another big thing that we’ve done was fix the tournament crash bug, and we’re hoping to see it work very well after we stress-test it with thousands of you guys playing.
Here’s the list of what we did:
• Hand re-player installation;
• Tournament players’ list fix (now the list in the lobby will load faster);
• Added Chinese language (will roll out with tomorrow’s update);
• Tournament crash fix (now the tournaments with a lot of players should no longer crash);
• Average stack bug fix (now the tournament average stack is displayed correctly).
I understand the ICO better. The presale with done in EUROS, and so the differing eth price is not a claim the presale sale participants have a claim to. The "decision" is simply about matching the new ethereum price to the old peg, they simply can't decide it until the closer to the date because it can still change.

Provided they really do attempt to match the intended over then its not a problem, and they cannot be judged on it now. This is how I understand. I admit I am terrible with this.


Last edited by Nooseknot; 01-09-2018 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 10:54 AM   #295
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

If it was in Euro then that decision makes some sense i guess.

Was positively surprised about the update email as well.
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:01 AM   #296
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

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If it was in Euro then that decision makes some sense i guess.

Was positively surprised about the update email as well.
Yes bad communication. You reminded me of the most important part. I PLEADED hard with Tony 3 times to get proper support for 2p2 and he specifically said he would take to people about it.
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:10 PM   #297
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Here is some info another player gave me to post:

Quote:
Everyone who has bought during Pre-ICO has the right to be very unhappy for several reasons:

1. Even though the price was in euros, both the pre-ico price and the main ico price have always been on the website during the pre-ICO without any disclaimer that the price could possibly change. The disclaimer was added on december 15th, pre-ICO was in november.

https://web.archive.org/web/20171214...com/#crowdsale (14 december, no disclaimer yet)

2. During the pre-ICO Investors wanted to make sure the main ICO price wouldn't change, so they asked the admins in chat and got this answer: https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/...uhPgHPuNeg.png

3. Almost everyone bought with their cryptos, it's just how it always is with ICOs. It's hard to believe anyone transferred fiat from their bank account just to invest in Coinpoker, usually people allocate some % of their funds to cryptos and then buy ICOs with those when a good ICO comes by. I spoke with several investors and all of them have bought with ETH, one guy invested 10ETH! Imagine how much money he lost.

4. Tony G has offered to refund eth to all who want it - for me, this proves their claims have legitimacy...

...

There were investors in the chat before, and they were angry, but they got their refund and left the chat.
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:20 PM   #298
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

It's interesting that they claim Tony G has no ownership stake yet he's the one refunding people.
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:22 AM   #299
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

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Originally Posted by disident View Post
Yesterday I've finished 5th in Monday 5000gtd tournament but my winnings r not transferred.This is very far from final product.
We are all sorted now.Winnings r transferred. It is fair to mention.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:36 AM   #300
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

https://medium.com/@CoinPoker/an-ope...s-97497bb1212f

Quote:
Recently, with more people playing at CoinPoker, we have noticed some tournament lobby issues. One major issue was tournament listing — tournament lobby software lost tracking of the tournaments, which lead to undefined behavior.

To take care of this issue, we had to rewrite the entire tournament listing mechanism from scratch, which was released yesterday (on 9th of January). However, human error is sometimes inevitable; and what happened was that we left a very intense logging (a mechanism to track what’s happening during the application’s lifetime).

It filled our servers’ hard drive disk fully, and in turn, this overfilling caused huge problems for other modules which is why we have been experiencing log in and game logic issues. Today, we updated the tournament lobby again (with a fix for logging mentioned previously), and now we hope these problems will be reduced to minimum.

After all this has been said, we want you to know one thing: we are not trying to make excuses. These are the things that we must own up to, especially if we want to keep a tight-knight and amazing community that’s started to bloom at CoinPoker. That’s why we are changing our refund policy in the light of the current instability of our application.

While before we didn’t compensate for the freerolls, that will change. If the game crashes at the point where all the participants would be receiving prizes, we will take the allotted number of CHPs and divide it evenly between all the remaining participants. Of course, we will be returning buy-ins for the games that require them and will be splitting prizes as well if the prize stage has been reached.


We value your time and trust immensely and we genuinely want to create a platform that reflects and allows that. Even though we had to push our room launch further than we’d hoped, we are not losing our motivation and dedication to this project. Every day, we will put in the work required to make this better — and we really hope you stick around to see it.
Thats better

I'm gonna pretend they said it would be a proper payout split as well.
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