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Old 01-03-2018, 12:47 PM   #251
CallAceHigh
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Not a fan of this site so far personally so many unknowns about who owns what and who is on the project. While it is clearly Tony G old site.
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:07 PM   #252
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

We received this post report today:

Quote:
it became pretty clear that coinpoker is a scam or at the very least a highly unethical venture, I think them advertising on this forum will get more people scammed so I urge you to break ties with them to protect your members.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=230
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=247
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=250
First, I'll speak in general terms.

As a general rule, we don't micromanage what our advertisers do, or require them to be answerable to us for all of their actions. I know there have sometimes been moves made by long-term advertisers that a lot of people didn't agree with, and even ones at times that have been labelled as unethical and/or scams. We aren't going to pull ads every time a group of people is unhappy with an advertiser (and I'm not suggesting anyone is requesting that). But that is why it is important that we have these threads, and we don't often have poker rooms advertise with us that don't have a thread like this where people can bring up their questions and concerns - our members are always going to be the best source of information about problems with sites, and the sites' responses (or lack thereof) can be very informative to existing and potential customers.

That said, it's not like we completely wash our hands of any policing of our advertisers. We have in the past, and I'm sure will again in the future, refuse(d) advertising from businesses that we didn't feel comfortable with, and there have been some exceptional cases where we declined a renewal or even cancelled and refunded an ongoing campaign. But the threshold for doing such a thing is quite high.

With all of that out of the way, I'd like to better understand the situation mentioned above. I have been keeping tabs on this thread, so I was aware of the issue, but I want to make sure I have a complete grasp of it.

It sounds to me like players are buying in to a tournament with CHP, and the site has advertised that they will be adding some ETH to the prize pool. Tournament crashes during the final table, players are refunded their buy-ins, and the promised ETH is not awarded. If I have that right, I would see two issues:

1) Most sites would chop the CHP based on chip equity, which seems much more fair than giving the same thing to the chip leader and people who had already busted and thus were unaffected by the crash.

2) ETH prizes are not being awarded as promised.

Those issues aside, if I understand things correctly, it doesn't sound like CP is stealing money from any individual player. That's not to excuse the issues people will obviously have with the above 2 points; I just want to make sure there isn't some further issue I'm missing.

Do I have this right?
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:27 PM   #253
ronmon
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

"You can't cheat an honest man". It's an old saying and not completely factual, but it has an element of truth.

They are clearly lying to you people and ripping you off. They have paid for the privilege of advertising their wares. Think before you buy and look before you leap.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:34 PM   #254
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

I am no longer worried about the unwillingness to be forthcoming on the owners/investors. We are witnessing the birth of free market poker and in free market banking theory there is no regulator to call for transparency of these aspects and related aspects.

Players can make objections but there is no axiom to suggest that opaqueness is an indication of scammy intentions.

In regard to the specific issue of not paying out crashed freerolls, there could definitely be a rational that is not immediately obvious and I think this will spark the beginning of an interesting dialogue on the relation of the ico chps to the equity they represent (regardless).

(oops just reading bobo fett's sentiments, basically makes my point)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...02#msg27413702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coin_Poker Rep
The prizes of the freeroll tournaments not being credited following crashes that result in the tournaments not being completed has been explained from the beginning of these tournaments taking place. This is not a decision made by the customer support agents, but made by the leading management and developers of the site.

Last edited by Nooseknot; 01-03-2018 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:58 PM   #255
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Those issues aside, if I understand things correctly, it doesn't sound like CP is stealing money from any individual player. That's not to excuse the issues people will obviously have with the above 2 points; I just want to make sure there isn't some further issue I'm missing.

Do I have this right?
I may well have it wrong, but to me it sounds like you could have bought in to the tournament for your last 400CHP, final tabled and finished 7th for 10,000CHP (made up amount), then logged out and gone to bed. Wake up in the morning and you have only 400CHP in your cashier, with the excuse that the tournament later crashed after you were eliminated...
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:06 PM   #256
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

I hadn't considered that with the crashes being so late in the tournament that some of those knocked out would have cashed; if true, obviously that's an extra layer of unpleasantness.

Plus of course if everyone's in the money when the crash happens, those still in are expecting they'll be getting at least the minimum prize at that point no matter what happens.
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:35 AM   #257
DomGov
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

I'm really optimistic for these guys. Can't say I'm surprised there's some crashes in it's infancy.

Hope they sort out all the kinks! This place has some real potential.
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Old 01-04-2018, 05:59 AM   #258
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
We received this post report today:
I'd like to better understand the situation mentioned above. I have been keeping tabs on this thread, so I was aware of the issue, but I want to make sure I have a complete grasp of it.

It sounds to me like players are buying in to a tournament with CHP, and the site has advertised that they will be adding some ETH to the prize pool. Tournament crashes during the final table, players are refunded their buy-ins, and the promised ETH is not awarded. If I have that right, I would see two issues:

1) Most sites would chop the CHP based on chip equity, which seems much more fair than giving the same thing to the chip leader and people who had already busted and thus were unaffected by the crash.

2) ETH prizes are not being awarded as promised.

Those issues aside, if I understand things correctly, it doesn't sound like CP is stealing money from any individual player. That's not to excuse the issues people will obviously have with the above 2 points; I just want to make sure there isn't some further issue I'm missing.

Do I have this right?
That's effectively it. The buy in for the tournament was 200 CHP. CHP were sold for 0.05 euro per CHP in the pre ICO and website says going rate will be 4200 CHP per ETH in upcoming ICO stage. So buy in was effectively around $40-50 if you work off the upcoming ICO which is supposed to start Jan or Feb. Somewhat less if you go off pre ICO discounted price from last November (10 Euro). But either way its clearly a buy in tourney not a freeroll. Additional to the CHP there was also 2 ETH added to the prizepool by the site, to be distributed among top six finishers according to a set allocation. These ETH allocations were not available in the freeroll tourneys they were also running in December (a bunch of which also crashed on that day).

We played down to the last five. Tournament froze when sixth placegetter busted. So you're correct that it's not an individual player getting scammed one out, its the two issues you highlight applying to the whole FT (and to a lesser extent the other players who cashed for CHP but not ETH pre the final table.
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:22 AM   #259
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
I am no longer worried about the unwillingness to be forthcoming on the owners/investors. We are witnessing the birth of free market poker and in free market banking theory there is no regulator to call for transparency of these aspects and related aspects.
the Noose has advanced far in his understanding of some things and above point spot on.

The worldwide regulatory environment in casino gaming (online and land based) stifles innovation beyond what one could imagine.


Innovate away.

p.s. but seriously just pay the MTT players who helped you QA your code and took a financial hit when it crashed. Don't be dumb.
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:05 PM   #260
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

On the plus side, the software is crisp.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:03 PM   #261
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

hello the server just crashed while i was itm of a 3000 chp freeroll and in the money server crash and cancelled all the turnys, and no icm chop no nothing into account for being in the money with almost chip lead?

will anything be done about that?
that sucks almost ft
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:35 PM   #262
GOT TO WINN
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Gr33n View Post
hello the server just crashed while i was itm of a 3000 chp freeroll and in the money server crash and cancelled all the turnys, and no icm chop no nothing into account for being in the money with almost chip lead?

will anything be done about that?
that sucks almost ft
They don't pay out because of a server crash. They refund buy in if there was one.

Rep said so in this thread and its in the T&C there chat reps said so as well in their own chat that you can access through the poker client.
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Old 01-04-2018, 09:22 PM   #263
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by _dave_ View Post
I may well have it wrong, but to me it sounds like you could have bought in to the tournament for your last 400CHP, final tabled and finished 7th for 10,000CHP (made up amount), then logged out and gone to bed. Wake up in the morning and you have only 400CHP in your cashier, with the excuse that the tournament later crashed after you were eliminated...
In your case 7th player will get whatever the pricepool is for 7th place but the remaining players will just get nothing (in a freeroll) or the buyin back.

No idea how one can make such dumb rule.
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Old 01-04-2018, 09:28 PM   #264
nutlol
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Now i am interested in their T&C but i just can find one about the ICO on the website.
Was looking in the software but I could not find any T&C there.

So dumb to produce bad press for that kind of peanuts.
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Old 01-05-2018, 04:01 AM   #265
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nutlol View Post
So dumb to produce bad press for that kind of peanuts.
absolutely agree.

Makes me wonder if the captain of the Coin Poker ship is asleep at the wheel, or not even on the boat.

Last edited by PTLou; 01-05-2018 at 04:08 AM.
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Old 01-05-2018, 08:31 AM   #266
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nutlol View Post
In your case 7th player will get whatever the pricepool is for 7th place but the remaining players will just get nothing (in a freeroll) or the buyin back.

No idea how one can make such dumb rule.
Actually 7th place wouldn't get anything either.

The players who are knocked out in the money get their CHP but when the tournament gets cancelled they take everything back.

It happened to me a few days back I got knocked out and it said:
You finsihed in .. place and won .. chp.
But when I logged in the next day the CHP weren't on my account.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:54 AM   #267
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Finally, right? We’ve been waiting for so long for this moment – and it’s only two weeks away now! Our ICO will be officially starting on January 19th, 2018, 10am GMT (5am US Eastern Time; 11am Central European Time), and it will last until the 26th, unless we sell out sooner.

That said, we have something else very important to share with you. Due to the huge growth in ETH price, we will be adjusting CHP price in order to keep it as level as we can, in comparison to our Pre-ICO. We talk about this in a much greater detail in our Medium post.

We hope to see you at our tables!
Just wow.

https://medium.com/@CoinPoker/coinpo...s-53057d5dd27f
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Old 01-05-2018, 12:02 PM   #268
PTLou
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

^^ just saw same thing. would someone please explain what the hell the stuff quoted below means in simple terms?


Quote:
Some time ago, around November, we have answered a simple question in one of our chats: will the price of CHP change during the ICO? We said “no”. As much as we are open and straightforward with our community at any given point, unfortunately with all the overwhelming things happening miscommunication within the team is sometimes probable. We are very sorry that the case that occurred was not caught by us earlier, and it leaves us with a promise that we didn’t commit to keep — and we understand it comes as a disappointment.

We still want to keep our promises to you as much as humanly possible, and at the moment, it means striving to keep CHP price as level as we can, in comparison to our Pre-ICO.

Our Pre-ICO CHP tokens were sold with a 30% bonus, 1 CHP equating approximately 0.05 EUR (it wasn’t fully tied to ETH back then). At the time, we were planning to have III stages for our ICO, with the 1st one giving a 20% bonus, the 2nd — 10% bonus, and the 3rd one for the nominal price. With the bonuses applied, CHP price went from 4,200 CHP for 1 ETH, to 3,850 for 1 ETH, to finally, 3,500 CHP for 1 ETH.
also re: bolded part.... lolz on the "blame it on poor communications strategy"

cant rem where I saw that before in the online poker business.
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Old 01-05-2018, 01:12 PM   #269
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Christ, how can one company fail so hard at very basic PR.

I want you guys to succeed. Please be smarter.
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Old 01-05-2018, 02:48 PM   #270
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Our 5,000,000 CHP freeroll tournaments were a booming success, so much in fact, that we have found ourselves with less than 1,300,000 CHP left to distribute
And here we have the reason for the server crashes.
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Old 01-05-2018, 03:10 PM   #271
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

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Originally Posted by Chaos_ult View Post
Christ, how can one company fail so hard at very basic PR.

I want you guys to succeed. Please be smarter.
I still can't get over the fact that Tony G is the face of this company. He might be a great guy irl and totally professional, but my visceral reaction to him is that he's a sleazy, scammy, untrustworthy type of person. How they don't see that is baffling.
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Old 01-05-2018, 05:25 PM   #272
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Sob stories about getting ripped off in 3... 2... 1... Blastoff!
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Old 01-05-2018, 05:58 PM   #273
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

So their bailout and run off day is Jan 23? Not looking good. I will for sure think 5-10 times before I download or deposit anything posted on 2+2 from now on. These advertisers should at minimum disclose who they really and where they're located to 2+2 management to be safe. They don't need to publicly say it but 2+2 should have them verified.
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Old 01-05-2018, 06:06 PM   #274
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xBIGx View Post
These advertisers should at minimum disclose who they really and where they're located to 2+2 management to be safe. They don't need to publicly say it but 2+2 should have them verified.
Absolutely not. It's perfectly acceptable in the new world. You can add and withdrawal (once the ico stage is over) at will. Chps will sell on the market and the market price will reflect the honesty of the token.

This business model allows for this sister site to be shadow backed. Given the subtle association with Tony G, its far more likely this project is extremely well backed. It is not a free market view to think that a sites ownership, investorship, or reserves should be (forced to be) publicly auditable.
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Old 01-05-2018, 06:17 PM   #275
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Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
Absolutely not. It's perfectly acceptable in the new world. You can add and withdrawal (once the ico stage is over) at will. Chps will sell on the market and the market price will reflect the honesty of the token.

This business model allows for this sister site to be shadow backed. Given the subtle association with Tony G, its far more likely this project is extremely well backed. It is not a free market view to think that a sites ownership, investorship, or reserves should be (forced to be) publicly auditable.
Perfectly acceptable to buy a $1 website and collect millions of dollars in ETH without being verified? I might as well start my own chip ICO on here too and retire next year.
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