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Old 05-18-2017, 12:49 PM   #26
pmarrsouth
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Email stars and ask for them to send you every hand history you have played in 2016 & 2017. They should send you a file with them
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:03 PM   #27
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Post every hand you played v the guy who you won from.
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:21 PM   #28
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoKeZoJr View Post
No missing important or whatsoever, i do not know any reputable poster who could represent me here but i would gladly offer an 50% cut
No disrespect, but 100% of people who start these threads claim there is no missing information, and safe to say that is not accurate for nearly all of them.

You did not say the amount involved (or if you did I missed it), but that would help to know, because if the amount is $10,000 you will easily find someone to work on your behalf for 50%. If it is $100 then not so much.

Understand that you will have to provide the files Stars sends with all your hands, so if you did something with regard to these players it will be very easy to spot, which is why most people who do these threads stop talking about the time to do that (if they have not already been exposed beforehand).
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:20 PM   #29
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmarrsouth View Post
Email stars and ask for them to send you every hand history you have played in 2016 & 2017. They should send you a file with them
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyM2033 View Post
Post every hand you played v the guy who you won from.
The problem is Stars won't provide any info about the accounts he supposedly chip dumped on and probably won't provide a file containing hand history either.
His main problem now is Stars won't discuss this any further and will repeat the same thing ad eternam : "You're accused, you're guilty, we don't communicate with you on this furthermore.", period.
You can't defend yourself when the judge got no ears, better talk to a brick wall.
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:44 PM   #30
pmarrsouth
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShowMeUrAce View Post
probably won't provide a file containing hand history either.
they will, all he has to do is email them and ask for his entire 2016 and 2017 hand history
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:59 PM   #31
ShowMeUrAce
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

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Originally Posted by pmarrsouth View Post
they will, all he has to do is email them and ask for his entire 2016 and 2017 hand history
Maybe yes. Now let's say they indeed do and OP uses these HH to find a way proving he's innocent, what's the point doing that if Stars still refuse to enter further communication on this matter ?
They will simply answer he's been found guilty, they will include references to their T&C again and won't make any comment about the "proofs" OP exposed.

I'm still not saying OP is innocent, I just want to point out how it is difficult to get any defense when nobody wants to listen to you.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:48 PM   #32
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Well, part of the issue is that Stars has a lot more data than can even be seen in the hand histories, and it is a constant battle to fight people who do all sorts of things to get an edge against the rules.

This whole thread with the guy casually talking about depositing $25K to play a tournament seems a bit removed from reality, and there is no doubt more to it than what the OP has said so far, because there always is in these cases.

With all of that said, if the OP provided the hands as described and they were properly analyzed by a person who has credibility (pmarrsouth would qualify) then a new thread with a completely different tone and approach can be created (and supported), and that would likely result in the case being looked at closer.

A similar thing happened to a player on Party Poker a couple years ago, and for what it is worth it was one of the rare threads like this which I posted at the time felt like a legit story/issue. It went on for a while and even though a "final decision" had been made earlier, that changed with appropriate pressure.

So I think this thread will repeat that? I would not bet that side for now.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:42 AM   #33
LeoKeZoJr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmarrsouth View Post
they will, all he has to do is email them and ask for his entire 2016 and 2017 hand history
I had just sent in an email 5 mins earlier to pokerstars support requesting my entire hand histories for 2016 and 2017

*

Really appreciate the response i'm getting regarding this matter guys.

Lets see if Stars get back to me with the required information

*

Guys i am posting the direct link for my hand histories which Stars just send me to prevent any doubts that i would had otherwise edited.

Anyone is free to download them and take a look


Hello LeoKezoJr,

Your hand history request has been processed. You can now download all the hands from our server using the following URL:

http://reports.rationalwebservices.c...0519024850.zip

To access the hands you will be required to log in. Please use the following User ID and Password:

User ID = download

Password = hands363getme

Please note that we have a feature in the PokerStars software called "Instant Hand History". One of the options of this feature is the ability to save your hand histories directly to your computer. To do so, open the Options menu in the main lobby, click on "Instant Hand History Options" and select "Save My Hands History".

You can also specify a folder, for how long you wish the hands to be stored on your hard drive and in what language (if you are using a poker analyzer such as PokerTracker or PokerOffice, please note that they may not support hands in languages other than English).

Please let us know if we can be of further assistance and thank you for playing at our tables.

Regards,

PokerStars Support Team

Last edited by Mike Haven; 05-19-2017 at 06:18 AM. Reason: 3 posts merged
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:48 AM   #34
Bobo Fett
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Not sure if they're going to like it being posted publicly and multiple people accessing it, but I guess we'll see.

I'd suggest contacting their reps on our forums; you'll find some of them in active Stars threads.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:51 AM   #35
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShowMeUrAce View Post
Maybe yes. Now let's say they indeed do and OP uses these HH to find a way proving he's innocent, what's the point doing that if Stars still refuse to enter further communication on this matter ?
They will simply answer he's been found guilty, they will include references to their T&C again and won't make any comment about the "proofs" OP exposed...
This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
...PokerStars... claiming that their decision is "final" is just flat out wrong. As a customer, you always have a right to escalate and appeal against any decision they make, including to the Gambling Commission and/or the court system.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:47 AM   #36
pmarrsouth
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

You played vs all the accounts that Stars' lists in one of their emails to you, even though you stated the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoKeZoJr View Post
I scanned through my playing history and could not find them at all

Who are these players ? Seriously i got zero idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoKeZoJr View Post
I could only recall Thursdoi from that list dropping 200 to me during an heads up session on zoom hu , session lasted less than 30 mins.

I seriously had zero idea who the other accounts were
in relation to:

bokukokoro
shinobistrik
tamagootchi
kinguburger
thursdoi
lelolele

You really want this still to be looked into, or you done here?
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:07 AM   #37
LeoKeZoJr
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmarrsouth View Post
You played vs all the accounts that Stars' lists in one of their emails to you, even though you stated the following:





in relation to:

bokukokoro
shinobistrik
tamagootchi
kinguburger
thursdoi
lelolele

You really want this still to be looked into, or you done here?

obviously my playing history are not complete nor in full details.

I noticed those mentioned accounts in this playing history link which Stars provided which is why i am posting up the link for everyone here to take a look.

My bankroll stand at around 4000+ usd

As mentioned, i will be happy to offer an 50% cut should i manage to override Stars final decision via assistance and help from the forum.

I am available via pm and email to discuss.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:49 AM   #38
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

I'll have a deeper look at the hands in a bit, but my first word search through the HH txt file found the charming message:
Quote:
bokukokoro said, "get cancer Korea"
This appeared directly after LeoKezoJnr called all in pre-flop (at 16NL) with KK vs bokukokoro's slightly odd cold 4-bet jam with ATs and the board came 945AK.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:18 AM   #39
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Erm... I suspect that out of this world results like this would automatically trigger the anti-fraud AI bots. It's a very small sample size, but this is not a standard heater.





That's just for cash. There were some significant wins in tourneys too.

The Stars Support people might not have bothered to look for example hands of obvious collusion/chip-dumping and just banned you without investigation, because the winrates are so abnormally high, and there's a lot of jumping to different stakes. I don't have the time to investigate deeply right now, but it shouldn't take too long to find some suspicious hands if they exist. I'm just in awe of the graph and winrates! Do you coach?
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:32 AM   #40
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Other accounts you won a lot from:

randoseru – Japanese backpack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randoseru
saltyshio – type of (Japanese) ramen
yaoyaomiso – Japanese sounding soup name (pokerstars missed this one in investigation)
nodokapo – Japanese results in google
sakatorain – short for sakamoto rain? (famous Japanese composer + song title - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STR9T_RCtQM)
secretmiso – back to Japanese food again
fishuna – account registered in japan (pokerstars missed this one)
konamiseiko - konami Seiko, japan obv (pokerstars missed this one)
dragonballze – Japanese cartoon
soralovey – Japanese google results
sekushigaru – Japanese google results
lemonpikachu – Pikachu!!
juronano – account registered in japan (pokerstars missed this one)
yumetime – Japanese google results
nobitanobiQQ – Japanese google results
asagohansato - japanese
feifeinoko
ohayomon
songooko
drillgoto
pokabok
aceheroson

want me to keep going?
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:42 AM   #41
LeoKeZoJr
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
Erm... I suspect that out of this world results like this would automatically trigger the anti-fraud AI bots. It's a very small sample size, but this is not a standard heater.





That's just for cash. There were some significant wins in tourneys too.

The Stars Support people might not have bothered to look for example hands of obvious collusion/chip-dumping and just banned you without investigation, because the winrates are so abnormally high, and there's a lot of jumping to different stakes. I don't have the time to investigate deeply right now, but it shouldn't take too long to find some suspicious hands if they exist. I'm just in awe of the graph and winrates! Do you coach?
i would be happy to share some motivational pointers and strategies in poker but i dont think i am that good enough to coach the great game
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:47 AM   #42
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmarrsouth View Post
Other accounts you won a lot from:

randoseru – Japanese backpack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randoseru
saltyshio – type of (Japanese) ramen
yaoyaomiso – Japanese sounding soup name (pokerstars missed this one in investigation)
nodokapo – Japanese results in google
sakatorain – short for sakamoto rain? (famous Japanese composer + song title - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STR9T_RCtQM)
secretmiso – back to Japanese food again
fishuna – account registered in japan (pokerstars missed this one)
konamiseiko - konami Seiko, japan obv (pokerstars missed this one)
dragonballze – Japanese cartoon
soralovey – Japanese google results
sekushigaru – Japanese google results
lemonpikachu – Pikachu!!
juronano – account registered in japan (pokerstars missed this one)
yumetime – Japanese google results
nobitanobiQQ – Japanese google results
asagohansato - japanese
feifeinoko
ohayomon
songooko
drillgoto
pokabok
aceheroson

want me to keep going?
so the problem is winning too much from japanese registered accounts ?

Which would imply these accounts are related to me in some way or another ?

As a poker player i only focus on making the best competitive decision on the tables regardless they are from the same country or if they are my best friends or from the japanese poker community.

I would like to know which rule am i breaking in this case ?
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:41 PM   #43
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

This case is pretty weird. I also noticed there were several other account names that OP won a decent amount from, but I've only looked at the hands played against thursdoi and lelolele so far. OP's play is far from GTO (it's pretty fishy, tbh), but I don't see any clear evidence of chip-dumping in the 20 hands played with those two opponents. The bigger pots just seem like random tilt-spews.

e.g. Vs. thursdoi, HU at 100NLz.
7 hands. OP won them all. 3 look like epic punts by a tilted villain, but chip-dumping can't be ruled out.
In the 10-minute session, villain loses a couple of hands with no big pots or showdowns, then suddenly goes mental.
1. Hero 3bets AKs vs a minraise, then c-bet jams 4x pot on K63r, villain calls off $75 with 98-high.
2. Hero minraises AJ, villain jams his last 17bb w/ 94s.
3. Hero minraises KK, villain jams 82bb w/ 96o.

(9-high is a recurring theme, so I wonder if Kassouf is involved in some way. )

Vs lelolele, 13 hands at 6-max 50NL. (No squeezing, like you'd expect from typical clueless colluders).
Hero makes some slightly odd floats in BBvSB and either sucks out or makes successful bluffs. The only noteworthy hands are:
1. Villain calling off with the 76s gutterball on TT8K vs an overbet jam by AK.
2. Hero's triple-barrel (after overbetting the flop and turn) with 98-high like a boss on Q625J that gets a fold.
3. Villain goes min-check-overbet on 64337, hero min-x-raises J5s (straight), villain calls with J8 high!
4. Hero iso-raises AKs otb, c-bets K98m, overbet jams blank 5 for 3x pot, gets called by Q9 (pr+FD).

From these hands in isolation, I'd say that OP was just the beneficiary of some godawful play by his opponents, and presumably some extreme rungood in other spots. I'll have a look at hands played with the other named "suspects" later on.

FWIW, I'm not interested in a "reward" for clearing OP's name, if he turns out to be innocent. I'm just interested in the investigation. This might be one of those rare outlier cases where Stars anti-fraud dept has made the wrong decision. If there's some obvious link with Japanese accounts, as pmarr has established, then it's much harder to conclude that OP is innocent. There's also a small possibility that OP unwittingly got caught up in (and benefited from) a ring of (Japanese) players colluding to help each other but accidentally dumping to him. I've not seen anything indicating that as yet, however.
Stars, of course, can check to see when various players were logged in. If they happened to only play at the same times and same tables as OP, or from the same IP address, then the hand histories are almost irrelevant.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:44 PM   #44
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

This is not going well for you Leo.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:47 PM   #45
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

See, there was more than the OP suggested in his initial posts, what a shock... He made it pretty clear his position early

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoKeZoJr View Post
Who are these players ? Seriously i got zero idea.
now it is this

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoKeZoJr View Post
As a poker player i only focus on making the best competitive decision on the tables regardless they are from the same country or if they are my best friends or from the japanese poker community.

This thread never really passed the smell test, and now we can see why. I have been on Stars for quite a while, and backed over 1,000 players there. While I see players from Japan once in a while, that country is very underrepresented in terms of player base, likely because poker is not really part of the general culture. Despite this, somehow the OP managed to find and crush players primarily from Japan, at a near impossible win rate. What a coincidence!

Add to the mix the chaos of the OP's account (various stakes, claims to want to play a 25K event etc), and to be blunt - this just feels like some type of credit card fraud/chip dump situation.

Now, was this as outright dumb as when I saw grinder01 playing heads up vs grinder02 as they were exploiting Will Hills $10.hour bonus? Probably not, but people like the OP always think they are smart enough to get away with whatever they tried, but they always leave a foot print of the behavior.

Cry Like a River used to expose these threads in the past a lot, and when I suggested the OP make hands available to be looked at by someone like pmarrsouth it was because I knew he would likely do the same.

This is about the time in these threads where the OP makes a couple additional feeble excuses and then vanishes.

Last edited by Monteroy; 05-19-2017 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:01 PM   #46
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

I mean there are quite a few very strange hands in that HH package... No clue if it means anything though since it's no way to tell if you just played against someone who has zero clue or if they were money dumping to you.

I guess that Pstars security team has other data they've made their analysis from (IP logs, names, adresses, payment provider)
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:03 PM   #47
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Only ArtyMcFly is being logical in assessing the issue.

Whether it is a coincidence or not or there's a bounty for busting me for Japan players is not within my scope of concern.

Does this summarize that Pokerstars can ban a player based on overwhelming strong suspicion ?

Would any one of you like being thrown into prison by a judge without solid concrete evidence ?

The question here is which TOC rule did i break ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
I mean there are quite a few very strange hands in that HH package... No clue if it means anything though since it's no way to tell if you just played against someone who has zero clue or if they were money dumping to you.

I guess that Pstars security team has other data they've made their analysis from (IP logs, names, adresses, payment provider)
If that is the case they could be direct and show me the evidence for closing my account and confiscating my funds.

No hand is a sure winner before the flop.

I put my money on the line out there

I was lucky my hand held up most of the times.

What would the story be if i been dealt bad beats in those scenarios ?

Then no one would close my account because its normal and my bankroll is at zero ?

Now because these funds are in my account ( i am accused of chip-dumping)

Last edited by Mike Haven; 05-20-2017 at 06:50 AM. Reason: 3 posts merged
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:30 PM   #48
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

They've accused you of multi accounting to take advantage of deposit bonuses. Likely making multiple accounts under friends/family/etc names, alternatively stolen CC information, and taking the deposit bonus.

Their move to chip dumping is likely in connection with using said above accounts to lose money to your main/other accounts as a sort of money laundring (making the "bonus money" "clean").

I don't know why I'm explaining this to you since it's a very good chance you know all this since you very likely did exactly what I wrote
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:44 PM   #49
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Pmarr spotted this before me. It seems obvious now. This is the ordered list of the biggest donators to OP's account. What proportion are Japanese?



You played 2 hands HU vs nodokapo and won two buyins. This is one of the hands:

PokerStars Zoom Hand #169856852159: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2017/05/02 12:05:40 ET
Table 'Chi Draconis' 2-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: nodokapo ($102.05 in chips)
Seat 2: LeoKezoJr ($110 in chips)
nodokapo: posts small blind $1
LeoKezoJr: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to LeoKezoJr [Qd Qs]
nodokapo: raises $2 to $4
LeoKezoJr: raises $16 to $20
nodokapo: raises $82.05 to $102.05 and is all-in
LeoKezoJr: calls $82.05
*** FLOP *** [4h Jh Ah]
*** TURN *** [4h Jh Ah] [4c]
*** RIVER *** [4h Jh Ah 4c] [Qc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
LeoKezoJr: shows [Qd Qs] (a full house, Queens full of Fours)
nodokapo: shows [2d 7s] (a pair of Fours)
LeoKezoJr collected $202.85 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $204.10 | Rake $1.25
Board [4h Jh Ah 4c Qc]
Seat 1: nodokapo (button) (small blind) showed [2d 7s] and lost with a pair of Fours
Seat 2: LeoKezoJr (big blind) showed [Qd Qs] and won ($202.85) with a full house, Queens full of Fours

Is it standard for all Japanese players to 4-bet jam 72o, or do they only do it when you move up to higher stakes than normal?
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:45 PM   #50
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Re: [Advice needed] Pokerstars seize account and seize funds to compensate for their own neglig

Did he lose to someone also? How much? Where are these players from?
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