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Old 07-26-2015, 07:04 PM   #2301
LukeSilver
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by pies01 View Post
That was the scare campaign ie skiers preflop software transformed mediocre players into beasts overnight. There was also misleading and illegally captured stats showing how close one of the stable was to skier post flop (as it turns out, the rest of that player's stats postflop and the rest of the stables' are meaningfully different to skier)

In fact, the people in skiers stable have become successful by
1) skier handpicking very few candidates
2) those candidates studying incredibly hard individually and as a group with individual coaching from skier (who is a high stakes reg)
3) 6 months+ of hard work

So preflop charts = bots was never correct.
this may have some truth to it but if these players had become that good, then losing the software advantage would not be such a big deal as they should have confidence in winning anyway.

some players like a challenge others do not want to play the likes of Phil Ivey or partrick Antonius online.

What I am sure very few people want to do though is play Phil ivey when Phil Ivey has some sophisticated software advantage that others can never get access to which enhances Iveys edge even more.

Now I am not saying these players are or are not in that class, but I am saying which ever way you want to spin it whether they are among the toughest sharks in the world or your standard reg having sophisticated software that gives them an edge over everyone else is not a fair advantage.

If they are so good losing this software use would not be such a big deal.
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Old 07-26-2015, 10:22 PM   #2302
pies01
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSilver View Post
this may have some truth to it but if these players had become that good, then losing the software advantage would not be such a big deal as they should have confidence in winning anyway.



If they are so good losing this software use would not be such a big deal.
It wasn't a big deal - since the banning of his software, one of skier's stable has made it into the $200s division.

This thing blew up because Skier said that if you are going to ban his software, Pokerstars should be banning software that provides a similar advantage.

I know it's boring and the conspiracy thoerists have had a great time with this thread but that's all most of us want to see - consistent application of software across players and game types.

So now that Pokerstars has banned Skier's software, we need an announcement from Pokerstars as to what else they are going to ban/adjust eg timing tells plot charts, A4 charts limitation (lol), voice activation, replay spot review for hands in play, bet size plot charts, hem badges shouting from the rooftops players exact weaknesses, HHs in game (post hand reviews), HH purchasing, HUDs, population tendency usage, seating scripts, anything else that may have some relevance and maybe even an improved response and accountability relating to Bot monitoring (but let's not go crazy)
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:07 AM   #2303
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by pies01 View Post
It wasn't a big deal - since the banning of his software, one of skier's stable has made it into the $200s division.

This thing blew up because Skier said that if you are going to ban his software, Pokerstars should be banning software that provides a similar advantage.

I know it's boring and the conspiracy thoerists have had a great time with this thread but that's all most of us want to see - consistent application of software across players and game types.

So now that Pokerstars has banned Skier's software, we need an announcement from Pokerstars as to what else they are going to ban/adjust eg timing tells plot charts, A4 charts limitation (lol), voice activation, replay spot review for hands in play, bet size plot charts, hem badges shouting from the rooftops players exact weaknesses, HHs in game (post hand reviews), HH purchasing, HUDs, population tendency usage, seating scripts, anything else that may have some relevance and maybe even an improved response and accountability relating to Bot monitoring (but let's not go crazy)
Where can I find a list of the cartel members and their results ? You claim it is all above board and anyone can play the weak members to get in.
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Old 07-29-2015, 02:28 AM   #2304
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

FTP Ring game changes

FTP has just introduced ring game changes that must be being considered by Pokerstars, too, Some excerpts:

* No more table selection: you can choose your game type and preferred stakes and be instantly seated at a table, getting straight into the action. It keeps things fun, fast and simple. Tables will be merged if and when two or more become shorthanded. This new system will ensure that your success is determined by your talent at the table, not your skill in choosing opponents.

* Heads Up tables have been removed: FTP are doing this for two important reasons; firstly, Heads Up games were being adversely impacted by the minority of experienced players who targeted ‘weaker’ opponents rather than take on all challengers, and secondly, new players who tried out the Heads Up games found it intimidating and confusing (asking themselves “why are all these guys not playing each other?”). Unfortunately, these table selection changes didn’t fix this problem so in Heads Up we had no choice but to remove them altogether, as we know the more new players that play it, the less likely they are to return and keep playing. In short, Heads Up ring games just didn’t form part of a healthy poker ecosystem, which made our decision to remove them easier.

FTP recognizes that in the past, a proportion of players have used extensive table selection to their advantage and that those players might not like these changes. Their advantage over other players will now be negated and we don’t think that’s a bad thing.

FTP considers these ring game changes to be key to Full Tilt’s ongoing commitment to provide a level playing field and attracting and retaining more casual poker players.

Now, if only Pokerstars will apply the same "level playing field" logic not only to ring games but also to HUSNGs & Spin&Gos.

Either:

* Ban table selection (and table selection scripts) as not being part of a healthy "level playing field" poker ecosystem.

Or:

* Ban HUSNGs & Spin&Go's if Pokerstars are unable to prevent table selection seating scripts.

!
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Old 07-29-2015, 05:03 AM   #2305
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

I assume you think the same for 6max and full ring cash games too ie if you can't stop seat selection tools, they should be banned too.
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:22 AM   #2306
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by pies01 View Post
I assume you think the same for 6max and full ring cash games too ie if you can't stop seat selection tools, they should be banned too.

Hi

Can you please provide this list of people who are in the cartels ? You say it is possible for anyone to play the weak members to get in.
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:03 AM   #2307
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Have a look at each of the applicable division threads on 2+2 - if the links to the members aren't posted, ask there.
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:34 AM   #2308
LukeSilver
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by pies01 View Post
It wasn't a big deal - since the banning of his software, one of skier's stable has made it into the $200s division.

This thing blew up because Skier said that if you are going to ban his software, Pokerstars should be banning software that provides a similar advantage.

I know it's boring and the conspiracy thoerists have had a great time with this thread but that's all most of us want to see - consistent application of software across players and game types.

So now that Pokerstars has banned Skier's software, we need an announcement from Pokerstars as to what else they are going to ban/adjust eg timing tells plot charts, A4 charts limitation (lol), voice activation, replay spot review for hands in play, bet size plot charts, hem badges shouting from the rooftops players exact weaknesses, HHs in game (post hand reviews), HH purchasing, HUDs, population tendency usage, seating scripts, anything else that may have some relevance and maybe even an improved response and accountability relating to Bot monitoring (but let's not go crazy)
well yeah I think skiers software should have been banned and yes I agree consistency should apply throughout. My position is not that Skiers software should be banned and everyone else's should be allowed. My position is that all sophisticated software that gives anything beyond basic stats should be banned.

I have never been good with computers and this should not be a requirement to become good at online poker. Many people like the game of poker but not so many people like getting into advanced programming or computers etc.

I think you need a record and data base of hands so you can analyse your plays away from the table and improve analyse that the deal is fair and be confident that there is no foul play or cheating going on.

I do not think detailed hand charts are necessary in software or effectively efficient play guides during play.
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Old 07-29-2015, 12:27 PM   #2309
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turlock View Post
What's the latest on Notecaddy being potentially banned?
It will be banned as will all aids that "go beyond a basic level". They said they were going with the version in OP but they still needed to tweak the wording.

I'm pretty sure notecaddy is not sold as a "basic level" software aid though now undoubtedly they will try to rebrand it as such.
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Old 07-29-2015, 01:17 PM   #2310
heathen1
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTamBiscuit View Post
FTP Ring game changes

FTP has just introduced ring game changes that must be being considered by Pokerstars, too, Some excerpts:

* No more table selection: you can choose your game type and preferred stakes and be instantly seated at a table, getting straight into the action. It keeps things fun, fast and simple. Tables will be merged if and when two or more become shorthanded. This new system will ensure that your success is determined by your talent at the table, not your skill in choosing opponents.

* Heads Up tables have been removed: FTP are doing this for two important reasons; firstly, Heads Up games were being adversely impacted by the minority of experienced players who targeted ‘weaker’ opponents rather than take on all challengers, and secondly, new players who tried out the Heads Up games found it intimidating and confusing (asking themselves “why are all these guys not playing each other?”). Unfortunately, these table selection changes didn’t fix this problem so in Heads Up we had no choice but to remove them altogether, as we know the more new players that play it, the less likely they are to return and keep playing. In short, Heads Up ring games just didn’t form part of a healthy poker ecosystem, which made our decision to remove them easier.

FTP recognizes that in the past, a proportion of players have used extensive table selection to their advantage and that those players might not like these changes. Their advantage over other players will now be negated and we don’t think that’s a bad thing.

FTP considers these ring game changes to be key to Full Tilt’s ongoing commitment to provide a level playing field and attracting and retaining more casual poker players.

Now, if only Pokerstars will apply the same "level playing field" logic not only to ring games but also to HUSNGs & Spin&Gos.

Either:

* Ban table selection (and table selection scripts) as not being part of a healthy "level playing field" poker ecosystem.

Or:

* Ban HUSNGs & Spin&Go's if Pokerstars are unable to prevent table selection seating scripts.

!
+1
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:55 PM   #2311
pies01
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

For HUSNGs and spins, regs play each other a lot. Also, you can't avoid action when sat.
This represents 2 fundamental differences to cash heads up.
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:58 PM   #2312
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by LektorAJ View Post
It will be banned as will all aids that "go beyond a basic level". They said they were going with the version in OP but they still needed to tweak the wording.

I'm pretty sure notecaddy is not sold as a "basic level" software aid though now undoubtedly they will try to rebrand it as such.
Please quote where someone from PokerStars said NoteCaddy would be banned. It's not true.
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:29 AM   #2313
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

^ See OP.

To be clear, you're claiming Notecaddy doesn't go beyond a basic level?
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Old 07-30-2015, 09:42 AM   #2314
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by LektorAJ View Post
^ See OP.

To be clear, you're claiming Notecaddy doesn't go beyond a basic level?
What is a "basic level"? The examples he gives do not apply to NoteCaddy "such as stack-size-based starting hand tables, decision trees or heads-up displays that dynamically change based on player action or card values."

No matter what happens, NoteCaddy won't be banned. The main functionality of NoteCaddy is creating statistics (which I would guess is a "basic level"). If Stars does require NoteCaddy to remove any certain features, then the NoteCaddy developer is planning to remove those features for Stars so that it would not be banned ever.
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:39 PM   #2315
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by LektorAJ View Post
^ See OP.
Sounds like you need to reread it.
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Old 07-31-2015, 08:19 AM   #2316
LukeSilver
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

stop spamming these if they dont make changes we dont want to put the idea in there head that they should do more reg raping.
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:17 PM   #2317
TouchOfEVil
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Pokerstars Steve, I just bought Notecaddy because I want customized stats that PT4 haves that HEM2 doesn´t. As in First in Limp SB [stacksize 17-25bb]. Did I just waste solid amount of $ ?

Or are you guys gonna allow a updated/muscled down version of Notecaddy?
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Old 08-02-2015, 01:00 PM   #2318
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by TouchOfEVil View Post
Pokerstars Steve, I just bought Notecaddy because I want customized stats that PT4 haves that HEM2 doesn´t. As in First in Limp SB [stacksize 17-25bb]. Did I just waste solid amount of $ ?

Or are you guys gonna allow a updated/muscled down version of Notecaddy?
Doubt that's going to be a problem; it's not hard to make that stat in PT4 with no addons.
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Old 08-02-2015, 06:15 PM   #2319
31Alpha
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTamBiscuit View Post
FTP Ring game changes

FTP has just introduced ring game changes that must be being considered by Pokerstars, too, Some excerpts:

* No more table selection: you can choose your game type and preferred stakes and be instantly seated at a table, getting straight into the action. It keeps things fun, fast and simple. Tables will be merged if and when two or more become shorthanded. This new system will ensure that your success is determined by your talent at the table, not your skill in choosing opponents.

* Heads Up tables have been removed: FTP are doing this for two important reasons; firstly, Heads Up games were being adversely impacted by the minority of experienced players who targeted ‘weaker’ opponents rather than take on all challengers, and secondly, new players who tried out the Heads Up games found it intimidating and confusing (asking themselves “why are all these guys not playing each other?”). Unfortunately, these table selection changes didn’t fix this problem so in Heads Up we had no choice but to remove them altogether, as we know the more new players that play it, the less likely they are to return and keep playing. In short, Heads Up ring games just didn’t form part of a healthy poker ecosystem, which made our decision to remove them easier.

FTP recognizes that in the past, a proportion of players have used extensive table selection to their advantage and that those players might not like these changes. Their advantage over other players will now be negated and we don’t think that’s a bad thing.

FTP considers these ring game changes to be key to Full Tilt’s ongoing commitment to provide a level playing field and attracting and retaining more casual poker players.

Now, if only Pokerstars will apply the same "level playing field" logic not only to ring games but also to HUSNGs & Spin&Gos.

Either:

* Ban table selection (and table selection scripts) as not being part of a healthy "level playing field" poker ecosystem.

Or:

* Ban HUSNGs & Spin&Go's if Pokerstars are unable to prevent table selection seating scripts.

!
1000000000000000000% PS should be doing this
if FTP had better traffic i would be there in a heartbeat - little advertising about this and how theses rules make the game fairer for newb's would be a smart idea...

come on PS pull up your pants and make similar changes!!
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Old 08-02-2015, 07:01 PM   #2320
pies01
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

I'm all for preventing table selection across all games but it's funny how he pinpoints HUSNGs and spins which have more short term volatility and more reg vs reg battles than any other form of poker and as a result, have been incredibly successful games for Pokerstars and the "ecosystem" (particularly HUSNG over many years - and spins looking like a net positive too)
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Old 08-03-2015, 03:47 PM   #2321
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2015/0...huds-22399.htm



Free huds for everyone
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Old 08-03-2015, 04:20 PM   #2322
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Real-time Operation: Jivaro records poker table data in real-time and is the only commercial HUD to do so. So the data players are dealing with is current to each hand and allows Jivaro to present data in a way not possible before.

Isnt that what pokerstars was against?
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Old 08-03-2015, 06:21 PM   #2323
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

no, they where always in for low-carb-wording.
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Old 08-04-2015, 02:00 AM   #2324
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by paletokio View Post
I think from now on the full Jivaro HUD will only be free to Twitch streamers who pimp the product out despite the fact is hugely inferior to cheaper options out there.

EDIT: From reading that promotion piece it's clear Pokernews are part of the affiliate programme too.

Last edited by bhoylegend; 08-04-2015 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 08-04-2015, 02:54 PM   #2325
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
I think from now on the full Jivaro HUD will only be free to Twitch streamers who pimp the product out despite the fact is hugely inferior to cheaper options out there.

EDIT: From reading that promotion piece it's clear Pokernews are part of the affiliate programme too.
Mind if i ask you to explain a bit more about it being "hugely inferior"? Not a snarky post either haha im interested after being sent that questionable "article" about jivaro

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