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Old 06-25-2015, 04:40 AM   #1826
TimTamBiscuit
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by pies01 View Post
If there's a class action in that, the lawyers are going to have a field day suing the RSL's, Pubs, casinos etc given the $15bn+ Australian's lose every year on the pokies.
I'msure some of that $15bn comes from people who think pokies are a skill game and they have a chance to win.
Seems to meet the criteria of "a problem stopping someone from purchasing if they had known about it " a little bit better
No, there is no case to answer. The Pokies are a ripoff but there is an industry web-site that informs that they are a ripoff. There is government-mandated fixed rake percentage. There are mandated signs at point of access in clubs.

And third party software accessing poker machines is illegal!

What has that got to do with thread subject? I thought we were talking about spades being called shovels.
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Old 06-25-2015, 04:43 AM   #1827
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Thanks to all for your input.

The 10 days allowed for input have concluded and we are now discussing internally. There is quite a lot to read and consider. I expect a conclusion next week.
Just incredible that you can tell lies to customers (see my previous email from stars) and then expect us to wait while you "read and consider".

How many people will play spin and gos between now and when you do decide on a course of action thinking they are joining a random game?

How many people will click hide from search and think they are invisible to other players?
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Old 06-25-2015, 04:50 AM   #1828
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by TimTamBiscuit View Post
No, there is no case to answer. The Pokies are a ripoff but there is an industry web-site that informs that they are a ripoff. There is government-mandated fixed rake percentage. There are mandated signs at point of access in clubs.

And third party software accessing poker machines is illegal!

What has that got to do with thread subject? I thought we were talking about spades being called shovels.
You were the one who started talking about legal exposure to pokerstars based on the egregious "random seating" misrepresentation.
With all the signs and that website, I'm pretty sure there are still a lot of uneducated losers
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Old 06-25-2015, 04:54 AM   #1829
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

I just want Pokerstars to make a considered decision based on all the facts - not based on speculation or general confusion so when I see that, I try to set the record straight
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Old 06-25-2015, 05:22 AM   #1830
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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I just want Pokerstars to make a considered decision based on all the facts - not based on speculation or general confusion so when I see that, I try to set the record straight
No, you want to avoid proper debate at all costs. You constantly change the subject, deliberately trying to distract attention from your precious group-seating tools to anything irrelevant while ignoring the core issues.

And as you have considerable experience in risk management you have to split your brain to ignore the real issues because you have a massive conflict of interest by being part of something that is a problematic risk for Pokerstars.

You know very well Pokerstars need to ban group scripts as they look shady to investors, games regulators and recreational players alike but they can't because regulars would threaten to strike/ take their business away from Pokerstars.

I won't hold my breath for Pokerstars to do anything about their stuff-up with Spin&Go's but the sh**t will hit the fan eventually. It always does!
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Old 06-25-2015, 05:50 AM   #1831
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by TimTamBiscuit View Post
No, you want to avoid proper debate at all costs. You constantly change the subject, deliberately trying to distract attention from your precious group-seating tools to anything irrelevant while ignoring the core issues.

And as you have considerable experience in risk management you have to split your brain to ignore the real issues because you have a massive conflict of interest by being part of something that is a problematic risk for Pokerstars.

You know very well Pokerstars need to ban group scripts as they look shady to investors, games regulators and recreational players alike but they can't because regulars would threaten to strike/ take their business away from Pokerstars.

I won't hold my breath for Pokerstars to do anything about their stuff-up with Spin&Go's but the sh**t will hit the fan eventually. It always does!

I'm not sure how I have any real conflict since I've said a few times that zoom husngs with lower rake would be fine.

The King of the Hill approach for HUSNGs has never been problematic to me. I had major problems with HUSNG cartels when groups were formed and they weren't dynamic ie members were getting crushed yet there were no new members getting accepted so the weak bumhunters were getting protected.
That changed over a year ago at the $200 levels and below.

If you are referring to my redirection to bots as "distract attention.. to anything irrelevant" then we are going to have to disagree again. That's the main game.


Any risk manager needs to know what to prioritise and what what risks are immaterial.
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Old 06-25-2015, 05:58 AM   #1832
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

PS def isnt scared of a reg strike. it wouldnt amount to anything. If money can be made, regs will continue to play on the largest site where others isnt even close and the most reputable. There is no other site which contains enough player base and reputability.

In the end, regs still make the most on PS, puff all you want.
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:07 AM   #1833
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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+1, Analysts and the media and recreational players need to be better informed about game integrity scandals at Pokerstars not to be nasty but because transparency is the best incentive to encourage the highest standards of game integrity.
Well I would take it in a priority order. Like if you find a problem in a restaurant, you don't call the newspaper straight away. You try to solve it with the staff on hand. If that's impossible then you try to talk to the owner, then escalate it (depending on the problem) to some hygiene office or newspaper or complaining on an internet review site if the problem isn't going to be solved.

So in the case of fair games at Pokerstars you try to solve it using the process offered in this thread. Then you inform the representatives and advisors of the shareholders (i.e. the stock analysts) and take it up with regulators. Only if the problem isn't going to be solved then you start to warn people away.
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:30 AM   #1834
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by TimTamBiscuit View Post
+1, Analysts and the media and recreational players need to be better informed about game integrity scandals at Pokerstars not to be nasty but because transparency is the best incentive to encourage the highest standards of game integrity.
In this intermission stage, before Stars kick off a new thread with their proposal we should try to take a deep breath and calm down.

First PokerStars is already trying to address the issue. Indeed in the past they have been ahead of the rest in terms of acting as a quasi regulator for poker by trying to impose sensible rules.

Second PokerStars already has incredible pressures to get this right. I've talked about the regulatory obligations but anyone who listened to the California hearing on gettin iPoker up and running in California know that the bad actor and tainted assets row that threatens to lock them out of California is a huge pressure to be squeaky clean

Third PokerStars get that they are a global brand that needs trust, huge amounts of trust, to maintain and grow their business.

This thread and the review is a positive thing, now let's just chill for a few days, let Stars have some time to think. It is not an easy problem and to be honest I am surprised Steve said it would be next week, this is serious stuff in terms of the whole business and the strategic approach of the business. There is a good chance that next week we will not have a clear decision/proposal, indeed I'd be shocked if we got more than a holding position and a further review.
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:33 AM   #1835
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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In this intermission stage, before Stars kick off a new thread with their proposal we should try to take a deep breath and calm down.

First PokerStars is already trying to address the issue. Indeed in the past they have been ahead of the rest in terms of acting as a quasi regulator for poker by trying to impose sensible rules.

Second PokerStars already has incredible pressures to get this right. I've talked about the regulatory obligations but anyone who listened to the California hearing on gettin iPoker up and running in California know that the bad actor and tainted assets row that threatens to lock them out of California is a huge pressure to be squeaky clean

Third PokerStars get that they are a global brand that needs trust, huge amounts of trust, to maintain and grow their business.

This thread and the review is a positive thing, now let's just chill for a few days, let Stars have some time to think. It is not an easy problem and to be honest I am surprised Steve said it would be next week, this is serious stuff in terms of the whole business and the strategic approach of the business. There is a good chance that next week we will not have a clear decision/proposal, indeed I'd be shocked if we got more than a holding position and a further review.
nice post.
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:58 AM   #1836
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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nice post.
For the tl;dr crowd a brief comedy video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k2YEc6dozA
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:40 AM   #1837
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

My vote goes to stopping of all unethical programs and scripts.
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:43 AM   #1838
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

The comments about spin and agos are simply hilarious

Its unbelievable anyone who actually has played 500 or so games of these would ever make that comment

Imagine there are 100 regs registering , they all do it manually ofc they wont do it at the same time


in practice fish WILL ALWAYS GET 1 sometimes 2 REGS ALL THE TIME

NOTHING CHANGES !!!!

This kind of comment is not very intelligent it complicates very simple things
talking about small details that dont harm the games instead of focusing on what actually is important.










In a game where 80% of players are weak and lose what is to expect but a huge hord amount of moaning and crying . no surprise really


In a begginers forum even today u still read

IS this possible ? how can i lose with aa 3 Times in a row , is this site scammed ?
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:48 AM   #1839
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by MrJuliusDhelas View Post
The comments about spin and agos are simply hilarious

Its unbelievable anyone who actually has played 500 or so games of these would ever make that comment

Imagine there are 100 regs registering , they all do it manually ofc they wont do it at the same time


in practice fish WILL ALWAYS GET 1 sometimes 2 REGS ALL THE TIME

NOTHING CHANGES !!!!

This kind of comment is not very intelligent it complicates very simple things
talking about small details that dont harm the games instead of focusing on what actually is important.










In a game where 80% of players are weak and lose what is to expect but a huge hord amount of moaning and crying . no surprise really


In a begginers forum even today u still read

IS this possible ? how can i lose with aa 3 Times in a row , is this site scammed ?
lol...
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:50 AM   #1840
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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But despite all the above, live poker is strong pretty much anywhere it's allowed. So what online-specific problems are there other than 3rd-party software?

Poker schools , videos , online coaches (much easier to learn thpugh skype)
regulatory measures USA out , FRA+ITA+SPA out
average age younger online so people are more keen to search for info and learning information than older people in the casino who have more buyn power
so they spend but they dont educate themselfs in how to play better
online has 10 yeas life span ? casinos exist for over 100 years

many reasons
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:55 AM   #1841
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

If the consumer knew


Players use a hud

Players use a chart

Players use notes

Players use site to chek ratings

Players use auto registering

Players use theyr brain

Players can use POkerstars online school to leanr for FREE

Players have free videos in youtube

Players have free information in the internet



I agree they dont know anything they should stop playng its a rip off

once again excellent argument.
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:56 AM   #1842
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by greg nice View Post
as i said in my blog, better solution is to just ban "strategy"/HUD software.

software such as my StackAndTile and TableNinja should have no reason to be banned

of course i'm biased.
There's gonna be more riot if that ever happens than they were when the US government stamped down on everyone's freedom.

So where's Fr-NIT? He's been online. No answer?

Accuses me of cheating then is caught himself? http://i.imgur.com/rsQ9rx1.png
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:37 AM   #1843
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by MrJuliusDhelas View Post
Poker schools , videos , online coaches (much easier to learn thpugh skype)
regulatory measures USA out , FRA+ITA+SPA out
average age younger online so people are more keen to search for info and learning information than older people in the casino who have more buyn power
so they spend but they dont educate themselfs in how to play better
online has 10 yeas life span ? casinos exist for over 100 years

many reasons
But young people can use those training resources you mention then and go and play live too - that's pretty much what I am going to be doing in August. If the problem is training resources, why aren't they killing recreational interest in forms of poker without 3rd party software? Live poker is by definition geography segregated - you only need 8 other guys at the table anyway so why is this a problem for NLHE players (I'm aware it's a bit different if you play some exotic variety).

Actually, one of the best free training resources for learning to crush live poker is playing break-even for pennies on Pokerstars. The 1-1 euro cash game near me plays like a 10 cent turbo tournament on Pokerstars. Hopefully it will soon be a good place to gamble again though not just to train.

Last edited by LektorAJ; 06-25-2015 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:51 AM   #1844
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by LektorAJ View Post
But young people can use those training resources you mention then and go and play live too - that's pretty much what I am going to be doing in August. If the problem is training resources, why aren't they killing recreational interest in forms of poker without 3rd party software? Live poker is by definition geography segregated - you only need 8 other guys at the table anyway so why is this a problem for NLHE players (I'm aware it's a bit different if you play some exotic variety).

Actually, one of the best free training resources for learning to crush live poker is playing break-even for pennies on Pokerstars. The 1-1 euro cash game near me plays like a 10 cent turbo tournament on Pokerstars. Hopefully it will soon be a good place to gamble again though not just to train.
Agree. I'd be grateful if you PM'd me a link to your Aug 1st thread on your month long live challenge once it gets under way.
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:40 AM   #1845
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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So where's Fr-NIT? He's been online. No answer?

Accuses me of cheating then is caught himself? http://i.imgur.com/rsQ9rx1.png
no biggie in this forum and @stars. just don't berate him for being an arogant dick, now that would really be a terrible thing to do
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Old 06-25-2015, 11:31 AM   #1846
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by LektorAJ View Post
But young people can use those training resources you mention then and go and play live too - that's pretty much what I am going to be doing in August. If the problem is training resources, why aren't they killing recreational interest in forms of poker without 3rd party software? Live poker is by definition geography segregated - you only need 8 other guys at the table anyway so why is this a problem for NLHE players (I'm aware it's a bit different if you play some exotic variety).

Actually, one of the best free training resources for learning to crush live poker is playing break-even for pennies on Pokerstars. The 1-1 euro cash game near me plays like a 10 cent turbo tournament on Pokerstars. Hopefully it will soon be a good place to gamble again though not just to train.
But young people can use those training resources you mention then and go and play live too

?? what is your point ? u will play live against old people and u most likely win


If the problem is training resources, why aren't they killing recreational interest in forms of poker without 3rd party software

Who said they arent killing ? they already killed many formats its obvious
i saw some formats die or having huge profit redution like 9max sng , 18 man etc and all this way before the amount of softw it exists now



The rest of the post has nothing to do with my observations
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Old 06-25-2015, 02:13 PM   #1847
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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So the next step should be to help analysts get better informed.
derail/
Amusingly/scarily, many stock analysts rely on news stories written by bots.
If the guys at Narrative Science get their bots to write stories based on what's said on 2+2 about Amaya, you can look forward to massive variance of the share price!

For all we know, the Amaya share price explosion that allegedly led to "insider trading" prior to the Pokerstars takeover was caused by bots trolling twitter and financial forums. I mean, I heard about the takeover about 4 days it was officially announced, and I'm just a random penguin that looks at twitter for about 15 minutes a day. The rumour mill runs incredibly fast these days. (Note how stock in Brian Hastings has fallen through the floor overnight.) With the rise of the robots, people and companies can be very much here today, gone tomorrow. I don't envy the decision makers at Pokerstars one bit. Millions of dollars is at stake, so I wouldn't expect any rash or radical decisions. /derail
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:19 PM   #1848
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by MrJuliusDhelas View Post
in practice fish WILL ALWAYS GET 1 sometimes 2 REGS ALL THE TIME

NOTHING CHANGES !!!!
The difference is that, without spinwiz, the 2 regs won't have colluded to reg at the same table with a fish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJuliusDhelas View Post
If the consumer knew


Players use a hud

Players use a chart

Players use notes

Players use site to chek ratings

Players use auto registering [I assume you refer to seating scripts]

Players use theyr brain

Players can use POkerstars online school to leanr for FREE

Players have free videos in youtube

Players have free information in the internet



I agree they dont know anything they should stop playng its a rip off

once again excellent argument.
Again you are mixing together different things to suggest they are similar in nature. Those highlighted in blue are known to new players and/or are not used in-game. Those in red confer an advantage to the user in-session but many players are not aware they are being taken advantage of by them.
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:42 PM   #1849
MrJuliusDhelas
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by raidalot View Post
The difference is that, without spinwiz, the 2 regs won't have colluded to reg at the same table with a fish.


This is simply false , you make a serious accusation that regs , wich can be

ALL ? 50% ? 80% ?

are colluding when that its a complete lie and u need to PROVE what u say



Again you are mixing together different things to suggest they are similar in nature. Those highlighted in blue are known to new players and/or are not used in-game. Those in red confer an advantage to the user in-session but many players are not aware they are being taken advantage of by them.
People know a HUD but they dont know Stars in built notes ???????

U just have to press and write ?? hello

please....

I find it extremely hard to believe stars will get much from this thread really
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Old 06-25-2015, 05:18 PM   #1850
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

I would love to see PokerStars itself provide all of the tools that it deems are allowable and ban ALL third-party software whilst the client is running. Thereby providing a completely level playing field for anyone determined enough to learn how to use them.

Whilst the client is not running, then of course players can do whatever they want, but it will make it much harder for them to use information they didn't collect, etc.
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