I agree with all of this, if you agree with it as well, you should probably quote it rather than allow silently agree with it. That way your opinion is counted.

In other words, what you're trying to say with your (yet again) lame ass sarcasm is that we should stop trying to profile the others at the table, since there's a cool piece of software that can do all that for us, adequately filtering through all the data so we can click them buttons. And I'm the ape, right? Why bother looking at the same 40-50 "static numbers" you have on all villains and bother to come up with a game plan, when XYZ software can spare you the trouble and only display you the key bits, right? Like I said, I'm not a "purist" striving for hud-less online poker, since I do use a hud (my ape HUD over 60 stats on it, btw, a lot of which have no meaning for certain villains) but I'd much rather be closer to a purist than a bot (or cybot) that doesn't even makes the effort of interpreting the data.

If I start using the badges, my HUD will get way smaller and easier to read, I will then be able to incorporate more info and my game plan will be much clearer in a LOT of spots. I do not advocate against these sort of villain specific huds because I don't know how to take advantage of it. But because I feel it takes away a big part of what a real poker player should do and should be. And because I know it takes us closer to a point where, frankly, none of us want to get - "no money to be made in poker, now everyone really plays GTO with super advanced villain-tailored huds".

Like I said (and, oddly enough, like you said also), if someone has a truly static superhud with 100 numbers on it and 20 pop-ups with 100 numbers each and if he can derive a game plan out of those on the spot, good for him! But don't let software get so advanced that he can instantly know he can xr me on A/Q/T high flops after I 3bet him in BTN vs CO, for example, just by seeing he has a little A/Q/T icon up in the hud he has on me. Or do you really think this sort of "features" are not on the way? I really don't think you're that naive.

First paragraph lacks logic reasoning and rehashes the same lies and misinformation and misunderstanding as before so no point in replying to that.

Second one - no one cares what you want. Facts are important. And consequences. Your emotional needs and wants - no one cares about, really.

Third - Unless you send the villain your entire database with millions of hands with all hole cards shown, even if he had such a tool available, he would not have enough information to use it because he could never get the sample size needed. So your concerns are pointless. And if you played great poker, he couldn't exploit you even if he had all your hands and a super computer.

You see, it's not your anti hud views that make me talk to you specifically differently than with normal people. It's the fact that you are acting like an ass.hole, talking about your emotional needs instead of what is good for poker, imagining things and spreading lies and misinformation. And all that with 0 arguments for how and why would games get better if there was no HUDs, and how would that benefit the poker economy and the poker site financially. So I am finished discussing with you, I promise myself. And that includes other fake accounts you have. So don't even bother.

My analogy is completely right, his definition of cheating is completely wrong. Because i was answering a specific statement in case you didn't notice.

In regard of his definition of cheating, Lionel Messi is a cheater.

Years ago game was based on exploiting more common leaks like high fold vs 3-bet or vs C-bet. Now at day almost everyone has fold vs 3-bet 60% and fold vs postflop C-bets around 35-40% and there is not common leaks to exploit with common stats. New HUDs show more specific stats and spots to exploit and it looks like many anti-NC people is not against this but badges systems only.

The issue is that badge system is not breaking current nor new ant-dynamic advice rules. Why? because if it is something you could do by looking at a huge amount of stats in your HUD/pop ups, and if what the software tool does is to help you do the same faster in order to play more tables, it is allowed.

In that statement "unfair" is a critical word. He would obviously argue that Messi has no "unfair" advantage, however if he was under the influence of steroids then that is an unfair advantage (which is banned in most sports).

Steroids are against the rules. HUDs are not.
Steroids mess up with the health of the one who uses it. HUDs don't.
Steroids don't involve any skills. HUDs do.

messi got drugged early in his career (growth hormons iirc). they found a doctor testifying he had an extraordinary condition causing him to be smaller and weaker than expected.

Haha good point

We're not arguing about HUDs though are we?

I'm saying I use an over 60 stats HUD, you're asking me to say how would games benefit from banning the huds, when I specifically say I'm pro hud, as long as they are pure static. Ok, you really showed your colors there

As for your point about "millions of hands" - such an advanced tool would not need your millions of hands with shown hole cards. If you 3bet 10% in BTN vs CO an add-on on steroids (which I'm sure is on the way, at least conceptually) would just compute that 10% range, cross-reference it with the hands you went to SD with and slap a flopzilla-like computation on your ass and then bam!, a little note saying a villain with 10% polarized (or liniar) 3bet range in BU vs CO is easily exploitable on A/Q/T high flops by xr-ing or whatever other exploits it can derive the second you sit down at a table.

And then again, this is just an example of what can come up down the road. And you're clinging on it like it's the only one, telling me why it's not possible? I'm just inferring from how the poker software has develop in the past few years, as I really doubt it will all just come to an abrupt stop by itself. Who the fk would have imagined 10 years ago we would have a hud that could INSTANTLY show us villain is exploitable with a stab on turn+river after missed cbet in 3bet pot oop?

Your judgement about what can and cannot be done only spans till the end of the day. While I'm talking about some tomorrow that will for sure hit us, if we just sit with our arms crossed. Make an effort to step, at leat for a bit, out of your own little box and think long term. You are a poker player after all, aren't you? Oh wait...

in terms of football it sounds like "i dont want to wear boots, so lets ban it, cause it gives so much advantage, so that if u couldn't shoot precisely before, u become a sniper after"

This man get's it.

+1

I dont really need a HUD to beat a Recreational player, most of them are probably just very bad, make poor decisions and end up losing money in the long run, but is about other Regs as we are constantly trying to get ahead of the curve, also if we try to make a living out of this we need to play some volume and that is imposible without a HUD, but recreational players dont really care about playing tons of volume like we do.

Steroids are against the rules. HUDs are not.
Steroids mess up with the health of the one who uses it. HUDs don't.
Steroids don't involve any skills. HUDs do.


Please replace "HUDs" by "NC" in my previous statement.

I agree 100% with this.

who the fk prevents u from changing your play so that u would exploit the guy who tries to exploit u by using software?? this software is the reason why poker is developing recently, otherwise it would stay in dark ages. and recr. players would still lose money quickly, cause u don't need soft to exploit that kind of guys who in general have the same bunch of leaks. these guys would ask for prohibiting poker education, returning lost money, using brain and etc.

enable sn changes to help a little who is getting f... by all these official and unofficial tools

the guys who made these bots have the ability to create another software and another accounts, or you guys think they are going to stop? lol

hasta la vista NOTECADDY

does anyone have an estimated timeframe for when nc will be banned?

I'm not quite sure why I'm replying to this but here goes...

First statement: well yes of course they're not but we're debating that matter. Stating the current situation is no defence of NC.

Second statement: Want to source that claim? Regardless, of course NC doesn't damage someones health as poker is a mental game so advantage is not gained through physical means.

Third statement: Some of the stats most certainly don't though, software telling me that this guy is bluffing 80% of the time when betting 1/2 pot is not hard to use at all. Additionally, creating a successful bot is incredibly difficult but those are not allowed - simply stating that something requires a skill does not mean it should be allowed in the game of online poker.

these 2 point are nonsense and the reason why recr. players are moaning. are u a regular? if yes, mb u would stop working on your game, make analysis of your hands, discuss poker strategies with other regs???? cause it's unfair! recr. players dont do that, they come here to enjoy poker, not to play with a poker geek. moreover, they would like u to lick their asses while u play with them at the tables.

That one statment alone is enough to sum up that you are certainly not being objective, and that you don't care about what's is true or not.

"software telling me that this guy is bluffing 80% of the time when betting 1/2 pot is not hard to use at all"

Then go ahead, buy NC and go make millions because that sounds so easy when i read your posts. And i am sure that since you are so aware of its effect on games and how huge of a cheat it is, you have already bought it and already made millions out of it. But now for some reasons you want to get it banned.

And after comparing NC to steroids, now you compare it to bots...What's next ? Compare it to AIDS ?

Once your bot is created, you can just unleash it and it is automatically going to ruin the poker economy without needing any human assistance anymore. Once it's created, it's 100% no skill s/w, which can be reproduced again and again.

But as i said, you are certainly not being objective...

Still not seeing a source, surely if it's such an obvious correct statement then you'll be able to supply a medical journal/article or something of that nature supporting your claim.

http://www.flushdraw.net/news/misc/p...oftware-rules/

Added Day, “As a result, we are strongly considering changing our current policies… .”