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Old 06-14-2015, 03:37 PM   #576
droulhs
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

• NoteCaddy as is would require changes. It is permissible for HUDs to filter / drill down via street, but not by action facing or hole card / communicate card values.

What are the changes that required?what it meens by action facing?Every stat is by action facing,isnt it?
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Old 06-14-2015, 03:41 PM   #577
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Would you have any interest in standardizing the game selection software (i.e. TableScan Turbo or HM TableScanner is the only allowed game-selection software), rather banning all of it?
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Old 06-14-2015, 03:46 PM   #578
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richas View Post
It is advice, it is clearly advice, it is mostly sold as an add on but as soon as you introduce the capability of s/w to scan hundreds of different stats for your opponents and then present the handful of key exploit tactics that should be used against that player you stop playing poker based upon your ability and your skills and instead follow the programmer's advice, the programmer that created that badge and the software package that delivered it up to your screen for that specific player, neatly colour coded to make sure you know the street it applies to.
Best articulated argument itt.

FWIW, I play with a HUD and I use NC and I was planning on buying on of those custom super huds, but I have to say I tend to buy it just so I don't fall behind, not to get ahead. So I'm not one of those "purist" who just wanna play hud-less poker, but let be frank: how can you say that NC is not unfair, considering its add-ons DYNAMICALLY decide what stats to show you, based on villain's playing style? Yeah, since a stat or badge pops up or not depending on villain, I can use the much hated term "dynamic".

Those add-ons have literally hundreds of badges, yet only a few are active for each individual villain, depending on what his exploits are. You wanna make things fair, NC addicts? Well just fill up your hud with hundreds and hundreds of custom PT stats that are active regardless of villain's style, exactly how a regular HM/PT behaves. Then let's see how you manage to sort through them all to check if villain is exploitable to a turn stab (on the turn or river) after missed flop cbet in a 3bet pot oop, and all this while 16 tabling. If you can do that, then you are indeed a superhuman (not a cybot) and deserve to win way more than us normal regs, simply because you can sort through all the data (by YOURSELF) and make a decision in that split second.

Otherwise, while I really would have liked to use (and maybe I will, if PS decide to still permit them) those custom super huds, I will have to say this is getting dangerously close to cheating. And if you still say it's not and it's just "data organized in a pretty fanciful way", I wish you all the best when in 3 years time huds will get so advanced that instead of numbers they'll just display super specific badges that actually are a game plan for each individual villain and board types. For example one big A in a green square with rounded corners and 3 dots on it telling you to triple barrel villain in 3 bet pots IP with 70% pot bets on two tone Ace high flops. Or a square with both diagonals showing and 3 different colored vertical bars with the number 7 in the middle , telling you the villain is super exploitable with a xr on rainbow 7 high flops, after stealing from the button. "Look son, this is poker, see?"

Last edited by devera; 06-14-2015 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 06-14-2015, 03:51 PM   #579
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

is it notecaddy which tells you the actual range of opponents in certain spots? because thats clearly got to go and is bull****. or is that a notecaddy add on?
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Old 06-14-2015, 03:54 PM   #580
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

So, i am only going to speak about what i know amongst these softwares, meaning notecaddy and seating scripts. I donít know/use the other (I know pokerstove and I donít really understand why you would want to ban it, and at the same time not ban equilab when itís the same thing butÖthatís not going to be my point) so I wonít do the same as some trolls I have seen in this thread and start talking about what I donít know.

Well, concerning seating scripts: I totally agree that such softwares are bad for the game because:

1) It makes it obvious for recreational players that they are being targeted at the table, and therefore makes their poker experience much less enjoyable. So, if some softwares should be banned, the seating scripts in my opinion should be at the very top of the list. And I am very surprised to see that they are not even on the list of the softwares that steve mentioned.
2) Also, as a midstacke reg at 6max NLHE, I am only using one because if I donít, I feel like I would be fleeced by the other regs of the limit, since a script basically allows them to increase the % of recreational player at their tables (and therefore decrease the % of recreational player at the table of the players who donít use one).
3) These s/w are expensive, and are working with a subscription system. I would much prefer not to have to pay for this.
4) This is a totally no skill software which increases your winrate. Anyone who buys it can set it up in 5 minutes and start using it and stop to even think about it once it is launched.

Concerning notecaddy:

1) I am surprised that almost nobody stated this from all what I read (30 pages of this thread). But the main argument of the ones who want to see notecaddy banned, is that this will bring more recreational players and therefore it is good for the economy of poker. This argument is FALSE.
What notecaddy does, is that it allows you to build some custom stats of your own. The main stats you need in a poker game are already provided by default by HEM and PT4 (and HUDs in general). Allowing you to build custom stat only allows you to build stats for some very specific spots which are not covered by the basic HEM and PT4ís stats. But the thing about these spots, is that they donít happen very often. And therefore, FOR NOTECADDY TO BE USEFULL, YOU NEED A BIG SAMPLE ON YOUR OPPONENT.
Then, what is the definition of a recreational player? It is someone who donít play very often, therefore it is someone you will never have any big sample on. Therefore, NOTECADDY DOESNíT HELP YOU WHATSOEVER AGAINST RECREATIONNAL PLAYERS. The only stats you are going to have on RECs are going to be VPIP/PFR/3B/CB and thatís it, and honestly you donít need more to play against them. And to be honest, you donít even need that to play them, because you can see them just by looking at their stack size, their avatar, the fact that they post a blind when they sit, the fact that they limp, the fact that they have a cell-phone icon, their bet sizes, their timing tells, and the possibility to color code them as soon as you see one of those things. All these small things are more than enough to identify a REC and start targeting him at the table.
Banning notecaddy wonít change the poker experience of the RECs by any mean, and wonít change their winrates. The ones in this thread stating that banning notecaddy would help RECs (without any argumentation) clearly have no clue on the matter, and sound a lot like RECs who believe in santa and think that the only way for them to get saved from their laziness would be for PS to go ahead and fleece the players who worked hard to master notecaddy, and that if such a thing happened they would turn into winning players overnight without having to provide any effort or any kind of commitment to the game.
2) What I just said is also true against regs at low limit stakes. For the simple reason that at NL100 and below, the field is just too wide in order to get a sufficient sample even on regs and to be able to start using notecaddy properly. THEREFORE, THE ONLY AREA WHERE NOTECADDY HAS AN IMPACT, IS IN THE NL200+ REG BATTLES. And honestly, I am pretty sure that most of them are using it already. So I really donít see how notecaddy is a problem. And I really donít understand why all of a sudden PS feels the need to come along and interfere in reg on reg battles.
3) Notecaddy is not a no skill plug and play software such as a seating script can be. It takes hundreds of hours to learn how to properly use it, especially if you want to build customs stats of your own. And even if you prefer paying and playing with a premium HUD built by somebody else, it still requires a lot of time, efforts and talent to learn how to properly use these kind of HUDs.
4) So now, what is going to happen if PS bans notecaddy? Will the NL200+ regs who are using it just throw out of the window the hundreds of hours they already spent trying to master it? Or will they just find another poker room which allows it? To me, the answer is pretty simple. Yes, pokerstarís software is nice and I like playing on it, but if for no reason they start saying that the hundreds of hours I invested in a fully legal software are now worth nothing, then I will just go play somewhere else. So, if PS doesnít care about loosing most of their supernova+ player pool for no reason and no potential gain, they should just go ahead and do it.
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Old 06-14-2015, 03:58 PM   #581
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

imo, the fact that notecaddy appears to be so important to peoples winrate (hence the whole "im going to play in another poker room if you ban it because i suck too much to be able to think for myself") is a reason exactly why it needs to go.


lol at losing *most* of supernova+ if NC is banned. ye that just isnt going to happen.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:02 PM   #582
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Am I reading it correctly that NC brings pop ups at the table in a specific situation which tells exploits about your opponent? So basically if there is an opponent who always check folds OOP once he checks in a 3bet pot, NC tells you that once he checked?

If som how is that software not yet banned?
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:08 PM   #583
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by KDash View Post
Yes, pokerstarís software is nice and I like playing on it, but if for no reason they start saying that the hundreds of hours I invested in a fully legal software are now worth nothing, then I will just go play somewhere else. So, if PS doesnít care about loosing most of their supernova+ player pool for no reason and no potential gain, they should just go ahead and do it.
And what network or site would that be? Hate to tell you but other than nationally restricted sites you are pretty much out of luck.

And if a bunch of regs migrate to another site (yeah right) that sounds like a massive win for the poker economy on stars long term.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:09 PM   #584
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by insyder19 View Post
Am I reading it correctly that NC brings pop ups at the table in a specific situation which tells exploits about your opponent? So basically if there is an opponent who always check folds OOP once he checks in a 3bet pot, NC tells you that once he checked?

If som how is that software not yet banned?
No.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:10 PM   #585
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by KDash View Post
So, i am only going to speak about what i know amongst these softwares, meaning notecaddy and seating scripts. I donít know/use the other (I know pokerstove and I donít really understand why you would want to ban it, and at the same time not ban equilab when itís the same thing butÖthatís not going to be my point) so I wonít do the same as some trolls I have seen in this thread and start talking about what I donít know.

Well, concerning seating scripts: I totally agree that such softwares are bad for the game because:

1) It makes it obvious for recreational players that they are being targeted at the table, and therefore makes their poker experience much less enjoyable. So, if some softwares should be banned, the seating scripts in my opinion should be at the very top of the list. And I am very surprised to see that they are not even on the list of the softwares that steve mentioned.
2) Also, as a midstacke reg at 6max NLHE, I am only using one because if I donít, I feel like I would be fleeced by the other regs of the limit, since a script basically allows them to increase the % of recreational player at their tables (and therefore decrease the % of recreational player at the table of the players who donít use one).
3) These s/w are expensive, and are working with a subscription system. I would much prefer not to have to pay for this.
4) This is a totally no skill software which increases your winrate. Anyone who buys it can set it up in 5 minutes and start using it and stop to even think about it once it is launched.

Concerning notecaddy:

1) I am surprised that almost nobody stated this from all what I read (30 pages of this thread). But the main argument of the ones who want to see notecaddy banned, is that this will bring more recreational players and therefore it is good for the economy of poker. This argument is FALSE.
What notecaddy does, is that it allows you to build some custom stats of your own. The main stats you need in a poker game are already provided by default by HEM and PT4 (and HUDs in general). Allowing you to build custom stat only allows you to build stats for some very specific spots which are not covered by the basic HEM and PT4ís stats. But the thing about these spots, is that they donít happen very often. And therefore, FOR NOTECADDY TO BE USEFULL, YOU NEED A BIG SAMPLE ON YOUR OPPONENT.
Then, what is the definition of a recreational player? It is someone who donít play very often, therefore it is someone you will never have any big sample on. Therefore, NOTECADDY DOESNíT HELP YOU WHATSOEVER AGAINST RECREATIONNAL PLAYERS. The only stats you are going to have on RECs are going to be VPIP/PFR/3B/CB and thatís it, and honestly you donít need more to play against them. And to be honest, you donít even need that to play them, because you can see them just by looking at their stack size, their avatar, the fact that they post a blind when they sit, the fact that they limp, the fact that they have a cell-phone icon, their bet sizes, their timing tells, and the possibility to color code them as soon as you see one of those things. All these small things are more than enough to identify a REC and start targeting him at the table.
Banning notecaddy wonít change the poker experience of the RECs by any mean, and wonít change their winrates. The ones in this thread stating that banning notecaddy would help RECs (without any argumentation) clearly have no clue on the matter, and sound a lot like RECs who believe in santa and think that the only way for them to get saved from their laziness would be for PS to go ahead and fleece the players who worked hard to master notecaddy, and that if such a thing happened they would turn into winning players overnight without having to provide any effort or any kind of commitment to the game.
2) What I just said is also true against regs at low limit stakes. For the simple reason that at NL100 and below, the field is just too wide in order to get a sufficient sample even on regs and to be able to start using notecaddy properly. THEREFORE, THE ONLY AREA WHERE NOTECADDY HAS AN IMPACT, IS IN THE NL200+ REG BATTLES. And honestly, I am pretty sure that most of them are using it already. So I really donít see how notecaddy is a problem. And I really donít understand why all of a sudden PS feels the need to come along and interfere in reg on reg battles.
3) Notecaddy is not a no skill plug and play software such as a seating script can be. It takes hundreds of hours to learn how to properly use it, especially if you want to build customs stats of your own. And even if you prefer paying and playing with a premium HUD built by somebody else, it still requires a lot of time, efforts and talent to learn how to properly use these kind of HUDs.
4) So now, what is going to happen if PS bans notecaddy? Will the NL200+ regs who are using it just throw out of the window the hundreds of hours they already spent trying to master it? Or will they just find another poker room which allows it? To me, the answer is pretty simple. Yes, pokerstarís software is nice and I like playing on it, but if for no reason they start saying that the hundreds of hours I invested in a fully legal software are now worth nothing, then I will just go play somewhere else. So, if PS doesnít care about loosing most of their supernova+ player pool for no reason and no potential gain, they should just go ahead and do it.

+1. Agree on everything.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:10 PM   #586
Clen Marudel
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Hello, here it is my opinion.

It's really simple, I want to play poker against humans, not againts machines. If you want to keep Poker as a competition where the most skilled HUMAN gets rewarded then you have to ban all the bots (obviously) and all the programs that suggest you in real time wich decision you have to make, because in my eyes it's pretty much the same.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:14 PM   #587
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

From a notecaddy pack thread:

"Timing tells. Our HUDs include a graphical representation integrated into our popups showing the connection between hand strength and timing in all the major spots. Currently only available on Stars and iPoker."

The word "Dynamic" "automatically" where spammed quite frequently too.


Notecaddy owners have asked their users to come into this thread and do their best to stop this. I would expect a bunch of nonsensical desperation in this thread going forward. Hopefully stars realize what a tiny portion of customers they represent (even if they are loud).
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:18 PM   #588
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

"Dear HEM/NoteCaddy user,

A few days ago, a representative of Pokerstars announced potential rule changes that could add severe limitations to what we can use in our HUDs. It is my feeling that online poker as it is today is a level playing field for all players. By having advanced tools available publicly and for a low cost, everyone from micro stakes to high stakes players can benefit openly. Limiting what we can use would create an environment where some users with large amounts of resources could circumvent these rules quite easily. This is easily substantiated when considering the bot scandal that was only acknowledged by PokerStars after over one year with several million dollars taken from players. Creating more arbitrary and unenforceable rules only hurts those of us who wish to play by the rules."

Pokerstars has created a thread on the 2+2 forum where we can express our opinions and I beg you to do so. There are several apps being targeted unfairly so please take a look and make yourself heard!

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/3rd-party-software-pokerstars-proposed-rule-changes-1538981/"


Notecaddy are sending at mass emails to it's customers to get them to support it in this thread.

I brought notecaddy and imo it give a ridiculously unfair advantage and i welcome a star ban.

Though it is low on the list. First get rid of the bots and the seating scripts as they are the biggest thread to the game imo.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:19 PM   #589
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by KDash View Post
So, i am only going to speak about what i know amongst these softwares, meaning notecaddy and seating scripts. I donít know/use the other (I know pokerstove and I donít really understand why you would want to ban it, and at the same time not ban equilab when itís the same thing butÖthatís not going to be my point) so I wonít do the same as some trolls I have seen in this thread and start talking about what I donít know.

Well, concerning seating scripts: I totally agree that such softwares are bad for the game because:

1) It makes it obvious for recreational players that they are being targeted at the table, and therefore makes their poker experience much less enjoyable. So, if some softwares should be banned, the seating scripts in my opinion should be at the very top of the list. And I am very surprised to see that they are not even on the list of the softwares that steve mentioned.
2) Also, as a midstacke reg at 6max NLHE, I am only using one because if I donít, I feel like I would be fleeced by the other regs of the limit, since a script basically allows them to increase the % of recreational player at their tables (and therefore decrease the % of recreational player at the table of the players who donít use one).
3) These s/w are expensive, and are working with a subscription system. I would much prefer not to have to pay for this.
4) This is a totally no skill software which increases your winrate. Anyone who buys it can set it up in 5 minutes and start using it and stop to even think about it once it is launched.

Concerning notecaddy:

1) I am surprised that almost nobody stated this from all what I read (30 pages of this thread). But the main argument of the ones who want to see notecaddy banned, is that this will bring more recreational players and therefore it is good for the economy of poker. This argument is FALSE.
What notecaddy does, is that it allows you to build some custom stats of your own. The main stats you need in a poker game are already provided by default by HEM and PT4 (and HUDs in general). Allowing you to build custom stat only allows you to build stats for some very specific spots which are not covered by the basic HEM and PT4ís stats. But the thing about these spots, is that they donít happen very often. And therefore, FOR NOTECADDY TO BE USEFULL, YOU NEED A BIG SAMPLE ON YOUR OPPONENT.
Then, what is the definition of a recreational player? It is someone who donít play very often, therefore it is someone you will never have any big sample on. Therefore, NOTECADDY DOESNíT HELP YOU WHATSOEVER AGAINST RECREATIONNAL PLAYERS. The only stats you are going to have on RECs are going to be VPIP/PFR/3B/CB and thatís it, and honestly you donít need more to play against them. And to be honest, you donít even need that to play them, because you can see them just by looking at their stack size, their avatar, the fact that they post a blind when they sit, the fact that they limp, the fact that they have a cell-phone icon, their bet sizes, their timing tells, and the possibility to color code them as soon as you see one of those things. All these small things are more than enough to identify a REC and start targeting him at the table.
Banning notecaddy wonít change the poker experience of the RECs by any mean, and wonít change their winrates. The ones in this thread stating that banning notecaddy would help RECs (without any argumentation) clearly have no clue on the matter, and sound a lot like RECs who believe in santa and think that the only way for them to get saved from their laziness would be for PS to go ahead and fleece the players who worked hard to master notecaddy, and that if such a thing happened they would turn into winning players overnight without having to provide any effort or any kind of commitment to the game.
2) What I just said is also true against regs at low limit stakes. For the simple reason that at NL100 and below, the field is just too wide in order to get a sufficient sample even on regs and to be able to start using notecaddy properly. THEREFORE, THE ONLY AREA WHERE NOTECADDY HAS AN IMPACT, IS IN THE NL200+ REG BATTLES. And honestly, I am pretty sure that most of them are using it already. So I really donít see how notecaddy is a problem. And I really donít understand why all of a sudden PS feels the need to come along and interfere in reg on reg battles.
3) Notecaddy is not a no skill plug and play software such as a seating script can be. It takes hundreds of hours to learn how to properly use it, especially if you want to build customs stats of your own. And even if you prefer paying and playing with a premium HUD built by somebody else, it still requires a lot of time, efforts and talent to learn how to properly use these kind of HUDs.
4) So now, what is going to happen if PS bans notecaddy? Will the NL200+ regs who are using it just throw out of the window the hundreds of hours they already spent trying to master it? Or will they just find another poker room which allows it? To me, the answer is pretty simple. Yes, pokerstarís software is nice and I like playing on it, but if for no reason they start saying that the hundreds of hours I invested in a fully legal software are now worth nothing, then I will just go play somewhere else. So, if PS doesnít care about loosing most of their supernova+ player pool for no reason and no potential gain, they should just go ahead and do it.

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Old 06-14-2015, 04:25 PM   #590
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Yes
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:42 PM   #591
SwishFTW
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by KDash View Post
Concerning notecaddy:

1) I am surprised that almost nobody stated this from all what I read (30 pages of this thread). But the main argument of the ones who want to see notecaddy banned, is that this will bring more recreational players and therefore it is good for the economy of poker. This argument is FALSE.
What notecaddy does, is that it allows you to build some custom stats of your own. The main stats you need in a poker game are already provided by default by HEM and PT4 (and HUDs in general). Allowing you to build custom stat only allows you to build stats for some very specific spots which are not covered by the basic HEM and PT4ís stats. But the thing about these spots, is that they donít happen very often. And therefore, FOR NOTECADDY TO BE USEFULL, YOU NEED A BIG SAMPLE ON YOUR OPPONENT.
Then, what is the definition of a recreational player? It is someone who donít play very often, therefore it is someone you will never have any big sample on. Therefore, NOTECADDY DOESNíT HELP YOU WHATSOEVER AGAINST RECREATIONNAL PLAYERS. The only stats you are going to have on RECs are going to be VPIP/PFR/3B/CB and thatís it, and honestly you donít need more to play against them. And to be honest, you donít even need that to play them, because you can see them just by looking at their stack size, their avatar, the fact that they post a blind when they sit, the fact that they limp, the fact that they have a cell-phone icon, their bet sizes, their timing tells, and the possibility to color code them as soon as you see one of those things. All these small things are more than enough to identify a REC and start targeting him at the table.
Banning notecaddy wonít change the poker experience of the RECs by any mean, and wonít change their winrates. The ones in this thread stating that banning notecaddy would help RECs (without any argumentation) clearly have no clue on the matter, and sound a lot like RECs who believe in santa and think that the only way for them to get saved from their laziness would be for PS to go ahead and fleece the players who worked hard to master notecaddy, and that if such a thing happened they would turn into winning players overnight without having to provide any effort or any kind of commitment to the game.
2) What I just said is also true against regs at low limit stakes. For the simple reason that at NL100 and below, the field is just too wide in order to get a sufficient sample even on regs and to be able to start using notecaddy properly. THEREFORE, THE ONLY AREA WHERE NOTECADDY HAS AN IMPACT, IS IN THE NL200+ REG BATTLES. And honestly, I am pretty sure that most of them are using it already. So I really donít see how notecaddy is a problem. And I really donít understand why all of a sudden PS feels the need to come along and interfere in reg on reg battles.
3) Notecaddy is not a no skill plug and play software such as a seating script can be. It takes hundreds of hours to learn how to properly use it, especially if you want to build customs stats of your own. And even if you prefer paying and playing with a premium HUD built by somebody else, it still requires a lot of time, efforts and talent to learn how to properly use these kind of HUDs.
Yeah right. As if no one is data-mining hands? You may argue that then the issue is data-mining and not NC, but NC combined with data-mining is extremely powerful. You get to analyse tens of regs of tens of thousands of hands which is humanely not possible. Then on the HUD you get badges that tell you that a guy folds a lot to river shoves after cbet/calling the flop, calling turn and river, and this for 100's of spots. Sure you could only data-mine and then create filters for every reg to know what do do in that particular spot, but you would never do it for 100's of spots vs 10's of regs.

NC is bad for the recs btw, if you data-mine (which is what NC users do) you can know a lot about their 3 betting strategy, limp-reraise strategy etc. the worst that could happen for recs if NC is banned is that their loss-rate doesn't change, at best their loss-rate diminishes. It's a freeroll for them. PS probably can't prevent people from data-mining but preventing the use of NC can diminish the impact of data-mining.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:47 PM   #592
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by Zombiefan View Post
First get rid of the bots and the seating scripts as they are the biggest thread to the game imo.

+10000000000000
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:59 PM   #593
DrawNone
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

the NoteCaddy shill army way want to convene a strategy sessions and address how this

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTE CADDY PREMIUM
Powerful Badges appear when an exploitable situation unfolds, choose from default badges or create your own.
Quote:
NoteCaddy can identify patterns and frequencies that will help you understand the way your enemies play.
does not violate the spirit of this new rule.

Quote:
New PokerStars Rule Proposal
Q. In general, what kinds of tools and services are prohibited at all times?

A. The following types of tools and services are prohibited at all times:
5. Any tool or service that offers real-time commentary or advice on the current game state that goes beyond reporting data and statistics.
how does it work guys? are you saying b/ all the badges are generated before the session starts they're not "real-time advice"? when a spot with a relevant badge comes up in the game what happens? does that specific badge pop-up or does the player have to go looking for it?

NC has advice for pre-flop, flop, turn and river right? don't forget this thread started b/ of skiers static preflop charts lol.

offering "real-time commentary or advice on the current game state that goes beyond reporting data and statistics" seems to be the selling point of the program.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoteCaddy Edge
Use badges and professional popups to help make better in-game decisions and exploit tendencies that opponents don't even realize they have.
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:06 PM   #594
MickeyKnox
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Good afternoon, if I understand well, NoteCaddy is prohibited because it gives dynamic stats and badges and some additional advantages. Is not that what gives pokertraker and holdem manager?
Simply NoteCaddy, making business is not to create stats within the program, and if you want something concrete specific stats, and HM2 is not standard, because you have to pay the NoteCaddy and give you the test you.
In PokerTracker, it is notetracker, but not as powerful as NoteCaddy, because PT and allows from previous versions, create you custom stats, which is quite logical, since there are stats for everyone, and if PT or HM have not thought of a stat specific, NoteCaddy can do it.
A badge is just a stat but with a picture that appears from a certain percentage.
NoteCaddy, Leakbuster, etc. If you plan to prohibit PokerStars I think you should seriously consider banning all kinds of software, HUDs, Stats, etc. It could even prohibited the use of Explorer, Firefox, etc., if somebody comes up check any video or table.
See also prohibit Flopzilla arise and Leak Buster. Decidedly prohibiting anything on a computer that only soft PokerStars can be used.
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:07 PM   #595
walkingzed
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Good thread. I hope the bot situation is dealt with next. It is disturbing that the biggest winners on PS are bots.
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:16 PM   #596
king acehole
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by KDash View Post
So, i am only going to speak about what i know amongst these softwares, meaning notecaddy and seating scripts. I donít know/use the other (I know pokerstove and I donít really understand why you would want to ban it, and at the same time not ban equilab when itís the same thing butÖthatís not going to be my point) so I wonít do the same as some trolls I have seen in this thread and start talking about what I donít know.

Well, concerning seating scripts: I totally agree that such softwares are bad for the game because:

1) It makes it obvious for recreational players that they are being targeted at the table, and therefore makes their poker experience much less enjoyable. So, if some softwares should be banned, the seating scripts in my opinion should be at the very top of the list. And I am very surprised to see that they are not even on the list of the softwares that steve mentioned.
2) Also, as a midstacke reg at 6max NLHE, I am only using one because if I donít, I feel like I would be fleeced by the other regs of the limit, since a script basically allows them to increase the % of recreational player at their tables (and therefore decrease the % of recreational player at the table of the players who donít use one).
3) These s/w are expensive, and are working with a subscription system. I would much prefer not to have to pay for this.
4) This is a totally no skill software which increases your winrate. Anyone who buys it can set it up in 5 minutes and start using it and stop to even think about it once it is launched.

Concerning notecaddy:

1) I am surprised that almost nobody stated this from all what I read (30 pages of this thread). But the main argument of the ones who want to see notecaddy banned, is that this will bring more recreational players and therefore it is good for the economy of poker. This argument is FALSE.
What notecaddy does, is that it allows you to build some custom stats of your own. The main stats you need in a poker game are already provided by default by HEM and PT4 (and HUDs in general). Allowing you to build custom stat only allows you to build stats for some very specific spots which are not covered by the basic HEM and PT4ís stats. But the thing about these spots, is that they donít happen very often. And therefore, FOR NOTECADDY TO BE USEFULL, YOU NEED A BIG SAMPLE ON YOUR OPPONENT.
Then, what is the definition of a recreational player? It is someone who donít play very often, therefore it is someone you will never have any big sample on. Therefore, NOTECADDY DOESNíT HELP YOU WHATSOEVER AGAINST RECREATIONNAL PLAYERS. The only stats you are going to have on RECs are going to be VPIP/PFR/3B/CB and thatís it, and honestly you donít need more to play against them. And to be honest, you donít even need that to play them, because you can see them just by looking at their stack size, their avatar, the fact that they post a blind when they sit, the fact that they limp, the fact that they have a cell-phone icon, their bet sizes, their timing tells, and the possibility to color code them as soon as you see one of those things. All these small things are more than enough to identify a REC and start targeting him at the table.
Banning notecaddy wonít change the poker experience of the RECs by any mean, and wonít change their winrates. The ones in this thread stating that banning notecaddy would help RECs (without any argumentation) clearly have no clue on the matter, and sound a lot like RECs who believe in santa and think that the only way for them to get saved from their laziness would be for PS to go ahead and fleece the players who worked hard to master notecaddy, and that if such a thing happened they would turn into winning players overnight without having to provide any effort or any kind of commitment to the game.
2) What I just said is also true against regs at low limit stakes. For the simple reason that at NL100 and below, the field is just too wide in order to get a sufficient sample even on regs and to be able to start using notecaddy properly. THEREFORE, THE ONLY AREA WHERE NOTECADDY HAS AN IMPACT, IS IN THE NL200+ REG BATTLES. And honestly, I am pretty sure that most of them are using it already. So I really donít see how notecaddy is a problem. And I really donít understand why all of a sudden PS feels the need to come along and interfere in reg on reg battles.
3) Notecaddy is not a no skill plug and play software such as a seating script can be. It takes hundreds of hours to learn how to properly use it, especially if you want to build customs stats of your own. And even if you prefer paying and playing with a premium HUD built by somebody else, it still requires a lot of time, efforts and talent to learn how to properly use these kind of HUDs.
4) So now, what is going to happen if PS bans notecaddy? Will the NL200+ regs who are using it just throw out of the window the hundreds of hours they already spent trying to master it? Or will they just find another poker room which allows it? To me, the answer is pretty simple. Yes, pokerstarís software is nice and I like playing on it, but if for no reason they start saying that the hundreds of hours I invested in a fully legal software are now worth nothing, then I will just go play somewhere else. So, if PS doesnít care about loosing most of their supernova+ player pool for no reason and no potential gain, they should just go ahead and do it.

Some terrible logic in defense of NC.

CLiffs
NC is not used against recs.
Banning NC would not affect recs at all(lol!)
Only Reg v Reg therefore it's super cool.
All regs 200+ use it (and they obv know whats best for the games)
NC requires a ton of skill to learn, hundreds of hours for mastery.
If I can't use NC I will leave.

Are you a poker pro or a Notecaddy pro?
Why would anyone want to play in the games you have described?
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:20 PM   #597
ChalkOutline
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

I don`t like where its going. I`d lose trust to PS.
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:27 PM   #598
31Alpha
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by king acehole View Post
Some terrible logic in defense of NC.

CLiffs
NC is not used against recs.
Banning NC would not affect recs at all(lol!)
Only Reg v Reg therefore it's super cool.
All regs 200+ use it (and they obv know whats best for the games)
NC requires a ton of skill to learn, hundreds of hours for mastery.
If I can't use NC I will leave.

Are you a poker pro or a Notecaddy pro?
Why would anyone want to play in the games you have described?
+1
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:29 PM   #599
nostrakhan
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrawNone View Post
the NoteCaddy shill army way want to convene a strategy sessions and address how this





does not violate the spirit of this new rule.



how does it work guys? are you saying b/ all the badges are generated before the session starts they're not "real-time advice"? when a spot with a relevant badge comes up in the game what happens? does that specific badge pop-up or does the player have to go looking for it?

NC has advice for pre-flop, flop, turn and river right? don't forget this thread started b/ of skiers static preflop charts lol.

offering "real-time commentary or advice on the current game state that goes beyond reporting data and statistics" seems to be the selling point of the program.
I think you're misinterpreting "real-time" advice. Real-time advice would be like a badge popping up on your screen during a hand letting you know you can use it now. This isn't what you can do with NoteCaddy.

NoteCaddy can show statistics and badges you've created, but they don't change during a hand. The information it shows is from previous hands played. Badges are basically like a regular stat but they're in an image format to help reduce space.
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:33 PM   #600
Richas
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by Burnss View Post
is it notecaddy which tells you the actual range of opponents in certain spots? because thats clearly got to go and is bull****. or is that a notecaddy add on?
Scattergraphs on the river type stuff? Does it really matter if the guys sell it to you in the HEM package, the NoteCaddy Package, The NC+1 add on or the NC+23 package they are just selling a suite with extra add ons.

It's like SIMS 4, suck the poor kid in for the main game then flog all the extras at £30 a pop and the suckers will shell out again and again to keep up with everyone else.

Want to play Civilisation online vs your mates? Shoot you have to buy every upgrade that the top dog has to play.

The tactic is to sell advantage after advantage one NC package at a time, if one ends up being condemned as cheating then the nice NC man denies its anything to do with him - just as the perfect tools to maximise the benefits of data mining can deny they have anything to do with datamining, whilst making damn sure the software supports merging databases.

HEM, told to remove Nash tables by Stars, shoot no matter, they can sell the add on out the back door and keep their "approved" status, or should that be let someone else do it.....plausible deniability, bury it in one of the dozens of add on packs available direct from the same site, no need to worry, Stars has signed off the basic vanilla package and can't be bothered to put the add on packages through a proper check to go on the approved or prohibited list.
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