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Old 06-13-2015, 12:27 PM   #376
tapouttazz9
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

All I'm saying is with no buds cheaters and colluding scum along with bot rings will run wild because we will have no way of figuring out if they are there or not
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:29 PM   #377
cneuy3
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by MeleaB View Post
(When 24-tabling on my laptop I don't run a HUD (due to CPU issues) and can play with no 3rd party at all other than StarsHelper for its time-bank with no problems at all.)
The "new" PokerStars 7 auto clicks the time bank for you now.
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:30 PM   #378
tapouttazz9
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

You must be a fish why can't we have the ability to pick out own table ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by poison_arrow_frog View Post
I agree that banning all 3rd party software is easier said than done. I think there are simpler ways to reduce the effects of 3rd party software.

1. Completely transition the Pokerstars lobby to the quickseat version of the website. You pick a game, you pick a stake, you click play and you are seated at a game.

No seat scripts and it reduces casual players fear they are being hunted down drained of cash.

You limited the amount of times someone can enter a new game to prevent abuse (people rejoining game after game after game until they find a very favourable table), e.g. if you have recently left a table you can only rejoin a new table a maximum of 5 times in a 30 minute period.

This still allows people to table select games to an extent but not go crazy and could help stop some of the table camping at high stakes waiting for fish or force the nosebleeds and mid-highstakes into the same games making a healthier high stakes environment.


2. Make it more difficult for people to be bots and not real people. It appears to me bots are constantly being found and banned. How do these botmakers able to have endless accounts?

Is it possible for Pokerstars to require a legitimate passport no. that can be checked and verified? Do they do this already?

If so then the bot masters must have access to a large amount of people who are willing to give up their passport no. and identity for a little cash.

I couldn't imagine this happening much in the UK and Central Europe so is it far more prevelant in Eastern Europe?

It would certainly be bad for legitimate Eastern European players to be victims of these botters, but is player segregation a realistic solution if an unbalanced amount of botters are from there.

Maybe a choice to play with only people from the UK and only from Western Europe. Maybe a choice to play with only people who have gone through a stringent verification process?
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:36 PM   #379
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

im only against software that isnt avaible for everyone im not even against skiers software if he sell it to everyone now against tracking software and huds let them stay for sure people need to check ev line
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:37 PM   #380
cneuy3
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by tapouttazz9 View Post
All I'm saying is with no buds cheaters and colluding scum along with bot rings will run wild because we will have no way of figuring out if they are there or not
PokerStars should be capable of doing this themselves. Maybe they have been catching a lot more cheats than publicly made known. It is troubling with all the cases in online poker of the player's policing these issues via anomalies or similarities in the HuD data but there really is no reason PokerStars or other sites shouldn't be equally capable of interpreting this data and finding the same anomalies that the player pool had found. In fact they should be able to do an even better job because they have a lot more information in front of them than the player pool has to work on. Just hire more data analysts or dedicate more resources to this issue.

As Richas said I don't see HuDs going anywhere anytime soon. I don't think most are even pushing that hard for that in this thread.
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:38 PM   #381
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by 1up View Post
Lets say for arguements sake 100% of poker bots are from Eastern European, why would this be undesirable? Or why would it be unfair or bad for me to want to play in these games purely because 100% of bots are from EE?

Ok 100% aren't. But what if 90% or 80% are?

If this isn't the case then good. As I said it would be bad for legit players to be severely affected, which is why I mentioned stringent verification processes. I know from my own experience I am constantly required to provide documents when I play on an online gambling website, are similar practices used outside of the UK?

If not after the revelations of the last few days why would it be bad for me to want to play in cash games I know are very likely to be bot free?
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:39 PM   #382
tapouttazz9
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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+1000

+1000000
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:44 PM   #383
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by tapouttazz9 View Post
You must be a fish why can't we have the ability to pick out own table ...
Because it has led to seat scripting and players being chased from table to table, and hundreds of HU tables with 1 person sat at them.

Your attitude the another reason for scaring off casual players.
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:46 PM   #384
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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im only against software that isnt avaible for everyone im not even against skiers software if he sell it to everyone now against tracking software and huds let them stay for sure people need to check ev line
Why do you feel this way? If WCGRider coaches someone, should he now be obliged to do the same for everyone? If a 6max sng grinder shares his charts with a friend, is he now obliged to make these available to the general public? If you make a custom PT4 Stat, must that be put into some central database for all to use? If I spend a week gaining some insights about a particular spot, am I know obliged to summarise it and make it available for all? Why do you think that software should be held to a different standard? Even if you do feel that way, is it ok if I/WCGRider/our 6 max friend make it available to all at a fair (and when i say fair, I mean one in line with its value) price? What if this fair price was prohibitively high? I'm also sure that all of those things are available to all, at the right price, even if they are not explicitly on offer. Regardless, in my case, the software alone is not worth a whole lot without sufficiently good information to go with it.
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:49 PM   #385
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

SHOW ONE, SHOW ALL....
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:55 PM   #386
IHateAces
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by fountouris View Post

...

And I repeat that if you want players feedback, stop asking forum TROLLS what they are thinking about and just create and send a questionaire to your players having a VIP status that shows that are using some of those programs , understand what those programs do and be able (having the knowledge) to express a usefull opinion.

Thanks
Fully agree with every point made! Well said sir!
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:00 PM   #387
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Fully agree with every point made! Well said sir!
Only listen to those using s/w to exploit others, ignore those that pay the bills. WP sir.
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:02 PM   #388
cneuy3
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by skier_5 View Post
Why do you feel this way? If WCGRider coaches someone, should he now be obliged to do the same for everyone? If a 6max sng grinder shares his charts with a friend, is he now obliged to make these available to the general public? If you make a custom PT4 Stat, must that be put into some central database for all to use? If I spend a week gaining some insights about a particular spot, am I know obliged to summarise it and make it available for all? Why do you think that software should be held to a different standard? Even if you do feel that way, is it ok if I/WCGRider/our 6 max friend make it available to all at a fair (and when i say fair, I mean one in line with its value) price? What if this fair price was prohibitively high? I'm also sure that all of those things are available to all, at the right price, even if they are not explicitly on offer. Regardless, in my case, the software alone is not worth a whole lot without sufficiently good information to go with it.
I'm fine with you having kept everything to yourself and/or players you felt the need to share it with for whatever purpose; financial or friend. You worked very hard to develop it and in no way should you be forced to make it openly available to the public if that's not in your best interest. Most of the training sites/other commercial software that is currently on the market is so in the creator/seller's best interest. They didn't magically make it available to the public because they wanted/cared to level the playing field against cheats/or really care about giving their customers an edge over certain competition not using their software. They did so to make $ from selling it. If your choice is to not sell it to the public them I'm fine with it as long as it doesn't violate PokerStars T@C and is approved by them.
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:08 PM   #389
ruimdg
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

you not obligated to sell of course but all this started because your software from what i read the thing is we cant forbide all software because 1 now my point is why forbide software that is avaible to everyone in that case only the ones that dont buy it stay behind now there will be always guys using private stuff running on side computers taking advantage from the others that will stay with nothing.
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:08 PM   #390
manigottaeat
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

I didn't know what everyone was talking about with regards to skier's software so I googled and read some articles. I still can't determine if anyone, aside from those who use it, know exactly what it does. I don't understand how NC and that software are even being compared but I am not very familar with HUSNGs so maybe I'm just missing the way in which they are similar.

Anyway, NC doesn't seem to break any of the new ToS that are being proposed so I don't understand why it is on the list of programs that would be affected.
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:11 PM   #391
MeleaB
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by Richas View Post
The abilities of some never cease to amaze me. Maybe you are right, a new elite non HUD grinder might emerge if there were a ban but I suspect that most cold not do that, at least not profitably.

In any case that risk is not one Stars could take, they can't overnight ban HUDs and TBF a basic HUD does not deliver the leap in capability to exploit that the rest of the s/w delivers. I'll take my chances vs a guy with one HUD view for all players, me vs 240+ specific specialised exploit s/w badges....dead meat, like all recs.

Just trimming HUD/Notecaddy/other capabilities is a business risk for them. (Not a big one, the liquidity will win out) but an absolutist s/w or HUD ban is a complete non starter, and TBF would be an overreaction that punished many regs with no time to adapt - unlike the clipped s/w cpability world, with data checks that I advocate where regs could adapt quite easily.
Yes, good points. It's certainly not straight-forward!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cneuy3 View Post
The "new" PokerStars 7 auto clicks the time bank for you now.
Oh, right. Thanks!
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:13 PM   #392
sixfour
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

banning everything > op's proposal > status quo
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:17 PM   #393
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Here is my view on popular software, posted day before this thread started:
Quote:
Let's imagine situation. You play online, and have a software which read current situation on table and literally tells you via voice commands what to do every move (like "raise". "check/raise", "fold", etc.) It would be a helping software which is not allowed.

Quote:
Any tool or service that offers dynamic, real-time commentary or advice on the current game state that goes beyond reporting data and statistics.
taken from pokerstars rules.

Let us make our software a little bit lighter. Instead of giving hints every move it will help us only in particular situations. Like on flop only or turn only. Will it be legit? Still no, I guess, it still a real time advice.

Well, let's improve our helping bot further. Using voice commands is really something that sounds prohibited. For example, if player folds to 3 bet 80% we can 3bet him with any two cards. So if that player raises and it's our turn to act, and our helping software yells to raise that is no good, because we can't use our software. But what if instead of yelling our software will show us a shiny picture saying "3bet"? Yes, pictures with advices instead of voice commands makes it totally legit.
Now, you may say no, it is still helping software and should be banned. But it is not, because that is exactly what NoteCaddy offers. You can make tons of different little pictures called badges which will give you advices how to play. When you have something visual saying you "bet here" or "raise here" it is much easier to take decisions. Basically, NoteCaddy is now a software which gives advices, it does not only reports data. So why is it allowed and not prohibited, that is what I want to discuss here.
I am NoteCaddy user, if you want to know. And as it is allowed I will be using its features, but it doesn't change my mind it should be prohibited.
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:22 PM   #394
MortC
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Please ban ALL additional tools. Seating scripts are the worst, but def ban anything you want. Even a calculator is questionable.
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:24 PM   #395
TheDefiniteArticle
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

The 'impossible to draw the line' argument sucks. Here's why. Unless Stars has positively defined something as permitted software, it's perfectly reasonable to suggest that anyone using that software is doing so at their own risk. There's no good reason why the exact borderline needs to be prospectively clear as long as there is a body with adjudicative power.
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:24 PM   #396
Seeker101
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by VP$IP View Post
Time for PokerStars Operating System
Must download, install, and boot from it in order to play on Stars. Stars has remote admin rights while it is operating. Does not allow installation and operation of non-approved accessories. Re-write terms and conditions.
Hell yes.

Another possibility and an easy way to manage live street bu street advice is to eliminate real time dealer chat hand histories. If stars wants to still allow client side histories, simply make them NOT display live and deliver with a timed delay. (Batched once per hour or day or by request only)
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:27 PM   #397
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by cneuy3 View Post
The "new" PokerStars 7 auto clicks the time bank for you now.
Hello,

Please tell me where I can find this option?
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:29 PM   #398
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by 31Alpha View Post
100% behind this... new players and fish are immediately attacked and few stick around for long... the higher limits have few rec players as they lose money two quick -they do not invest in software... this is a step towards making the game more on the fair side... now -PLS PLS GET RID OF SEATING SCRIPTS

buying $300-1000 or more of software should not be basic prerequisite to playing poker on stars...
Yeah, fish often busted in 100 hands, so Notecaddy cant generate so many stats. Fish so quickly busted, because they play bad, not because of notecaddy or hud. About 90% there i think coud beat the game, if there is no HUD or 3rd party programs, but i think many of you only can improve if there is hud and you see what better players do. 10% others who behind this is reg, who can apply GTOish approach without hud and bust you, they also get bigger edge against Huds orientated regs.

So be honest to yourself, huds or stats isnt problem why you losing, you lazyness is. English is my second language, so sorry for mistakes
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:34 PM   #399
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by Hoosierbrat View Post
So we can still use HEM and PT, but not note caddy or in game hand/range proponents of that software.

So can someone confirm that we can still use PT and HEM and basic street statistical info via HUD?
A basic summary of what the OP is suggesting by the Pokerstars rep would be great please...
When I first saw this I was really worried that HEM/ PT and all HUD softeare would be banned.

Bump !?
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:34 PM   #400
ruimdg
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

also watching porn while playing should also be forbiden because the all in thing can be condidered real time advice
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