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Old 12-19-2015, 12:00 PM   #3251
Maratik
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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dynamically display statistics specific to a certain situation
what does this actually mean?
will stats like cbet or delay cb be allowed to be used for example?

Last edited by Maratik; 12-19-2015 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 12-19-2015, 06:58 PM   #3252
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by Maratik View Post

i'm out of the loop with what's happening on stars. i re-downloaded table ninja after not using it for years and I get this pop up, am i not allowed to use it anymore? can someone please fill me in on what's going on?
You wont table ninja 2.
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Old 12-20-2015, 06:43 AM   #3253
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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anyone else decided to give up on online poker. being treated like i'm the problem with the economy and need my balls cut off is so ****ing tilting.

Yes. Our intention is to limit the contextual/implicit advice that sophisticated coloring profiles may provide to the player. That is, each statistic may only have at maximum three different colors used, based on two raw-value thresholds, but the actual colors used may differ between statistics.

what a load of steaming bull*****. where is the god damn line drawn. the arbitrariness of this is what's intolerable. it just makes no god damn sense. my HUD with 20 stats and colour codes is what's holding back the poker economy ? ok sure whatever

contextual/implicit advice ? what advice ? if i make my HUD compliant and set agro parameters to RED and a person's HUD comes up as mostly RED isn't that 'sophisticated contextual/impicit advice', TOWIT: i can tell they're agro without reading a single actual number ? if it isnt - how can you say that my HUD with multiple colour ranges is ? WHERE IS THE LINE DRAWN ????? AND WHY ? why 2 ranges ? why not 3 ? why not 0 ?

quitting online poker over this. no idea where the fk else to play and giving my money to a company that holds me in such contempt is odious.
There is just so much uncertainty. I paid good money for some expensive software, which now I cannot use on Stars. My HUD looks like vomit with 3 colors. Now I need to make extra clicks to adjust bet sizing, which takes very little brain power to do, but adds to the tedium. All it does it tilt me because I rage when I think about it in the middle of my sessions.

Pokerstars shows they do not respect grinders, and frankly I'm sick too. I'm not quitting online poker, but I am done playing on Stars. Please join me on other sites, they need more liquidity, and Stars does not deserve theirs.

@Stars mission accomplished. One less pesky grinder ruining your ecology and making you money.

Last edited by FishWithBacon; 12-20-2015 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 12-20-2015, 01:16 PM   #3254
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by FishWithBacon View Post
There is just so much uncertainty. I paid good money for some expensive software, which now I cannot use on Stars. My HUD looks like vomit with 3 colors. Now I need to make extra clicks to adjust bet sizing, which takes very little brain power to do, but adds to the tedium. All it does it tilt me because I rage when I think about it in the middle of my sessions.

Pokerstars shows they do not respect grinders, and frankly I'm sick too. I'm not quitting online poker, but I am done playing on Stars. Please join me on other sites, they need more liquidity, and Stars does not deserve theirs.

@Stars mission accomplished. One less pesky grinder ruining your ecology and making you money.
The bolded is the worst argument I've ever heard.
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Old 12-20-2015, 01:37 PM   #3255
31Alpha
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by FishWithBacon View Post
There is just so much uncertainty. I paid good money for some expensive software, which now I cannot use on Stars. My HUD looks like vomit with 3 colors. Now I need to make extra clicks to adjust bet sizing, which takes very little brain power to do, but adds to the tedium. All it does it tilt me because I rage when I think about it in the middle of my sessions.

Pokerstars shows they do not respect grinders, and frankly I'm sick too. I'm not quitting online poker, but I am done playing on Stars. Please join me on other sites, they need more liquidity, and Stars does not deserve theirs.

@Stars mission accomplished. One less pesky grinder ruining your ecology and making you money.
less grinding nits on PS the better
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Old 12-20-2015, 03:06 PM   #3256
FishWithBacon
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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The bolded is the worst argument I've ever heard.
How about the argument that I like my software and I don't like change. Should and shouldn't are pretty ridiculous arguments. I could understand making rules for new software, but banning tools that have been available for at least 5 years, and are heavily used by players of all skill levels, is beyond ridiculous.
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Old 12-20-2015, 03:24 PM   #3257
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Havent played poker in a while. Just received a pop up stating that TN1 is not in compliance with stars anymore. I closed the pop up box before checking - does this pop up come from Stars or from TN?

Apparently it is because of the 1bb limper thing - it doesnt bother me to simply not use TN but Im pretty annoyed that at least one of these companies has access to viewing other programs open on my computer.
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Old 12-20-2015, 03:40 PM   #3258
FishWithBacon
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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less grinding nits on PS the better
Given my high 3b percentage and my high sb steal bb ratio, I am clearly not a nit.
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Old 12-20-2015, 04:13 PM   #3259
31Alpha
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by FishWithBacon View Post
How about the argument that I like my software and I don't like change. Should and shouldn't are pretty ridiculous arguments. I could understand making rules for new software, but banning tools that have been available for at least 5 years, and are heavily used by players of all skill levels, is beyond ridiculous.
so go to a site where you can use your software... no one is stopping you... and tools that make the game unfair should be banned, which is what PS is doing
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Old 12-20-2015, 04:17 PM   #3260
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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so go to a site where you can use your software... no one is stopping you... and tools that make the game unfair should be banned, which is what PS is doing
It takes time effort and skill to be able to use a complex hud effectively. HUDs have been around since the start of online poker, learning to use them effectively is part of learning to play online poker well.. I've already left pokerstars, for this and many other reasons.
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:31 PM   #3261
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by FishWithBacon View Post
How about the argument that I like my software and I don't like change. Should and shouldn't are pretty ridiculous arguments. I could understand making rules for new software, but banning tools that have been available for at least 5 years, and are heavily used by players of all skill levels, is beyond ridiculous.
No expensive software which has been around 5 years is widely used.
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Old 12-21-2015, 04:09 AM   #3262
FishWithBacon
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by TheDefiniteArticle View Post
No expensive software which has been around 5 years is widely used.
Most serious players at all stakes are going to use a hud and spend time working on optimizing it for themselves. It's part of the skill. It's pretty gross that the rules are changing all the time in a seemingly arbitrary way. I mean come on, 3 colors max on hud... whoever thought of this has obviously never used a hud before.

The notecaddy thing is most likely whoever is charge didn't understand how notecaddy worked so they decided to ban it just to be safe.
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Old 12-21-2015, 06:49 AM   #3263
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by FishWithBacon View Post
Most serious players at all stakes are going to use a hud and spend time working on optimizing it for themselves. It's part of the skill. It's pretty gross that the rules are changing all the time in a seemingly arbitrary way. I mean come on, 3 colors max on hud... whoever thought of this has obviously never used a hud before.

The notecaddy thing is most likely whoever is charge didn't understand how notecaddy worked so they decided to ban it just to be safe.
Why would Stars allow it and why do you think they should?
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Old 12-21-2015, 07:01 AM   #3264
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by FishWithBacon View Post
Most serious players at all stakes are going to use a hud and spend time working on optimizing it for themselves. It's part of the skill. It's pretty gross that the rules are changing all the time in a seemingly arbitrary way. I mean come on, 3 colors max on hud... whoever thought of this has obviously never used a hud before.

The notecaddy thing is most likely whoever is charge didn't understand how notecaddy worked so they decided to ban it just to be safe.
Yes, and HUDs haven't been banned, nor are they expensive. I don't think HUDs should be banned. And it's pretty clear to me that you don't need more than three colours on a HUD. One default colour, one for a stat that's too low, and one for a stat that's too high.

Notecaddy was ridiculous, especially with paid add-ons, so it's good they've banned it considering they don't have a good solution to datamining yet.
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Old 12-21-2015, 07:35 AM   #3265
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

NoteCaddy is not banned. It is specifically listed as allowed https://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/ under the "Can you give some examples of acceptable tools and services?" header
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Old 12-21-2015, 07:59 AM   #3266
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by SretiCentV View Post
NoteCaddy is not banned. It is specifically listed as allowed https://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/ under the "Can you give some examples of acceptable tools and services?" header
The previous version is banned. The new version is crippled in comparison, which is good.
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Old 12-21-2015, 08:10 AM   #3267
FishWithBacon
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by TheDefiniteArticle View Post
The previous version is banned. The new version is crippled in comparison, which is good.
Notecaddy never provided any type of playing advice, just a nice way to represent data. It is possible to achieve the exact same results using a hud with just numbers. I would find it really strange for someone who actually understood what notecaddy does to think huds are ok, but notcaddy isn't.

Case an point, if you watch some hs RIO videos some use it and some don't. It's really a preference thing. If it was such an advantage everyone at hs would have used it.

Last edited by FishWithBacon; 12-21-2015 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 12-21-2015, 08:26 AM   #3268
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by FishWithBacon View Post
Notecaddy never provided any type of playing advice, just a nice way to represent data. It is possible to achieve the exact same results using a hud with just numbers. I would find it really strange for someone who actually understood what notecaddy does to think huds are ok, but notcaddy isn't.
Just NoteCaddy. My problem with it is that it removes all the skill from using a HUD (data interpretation). Badges converted that into (almost) being told what to do by some pretty pictures. My biggest worry with it though is the extent to which obscure badges encouraged datamining.

Edit: HS isn't really relevant though, because it's a decidedly different environment from the SSNL/MSNL environments Notecaddy damaged.
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:30 AM   #3269
31Alpha
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by FishWithBacon View Post
It takes time effort and skill to be able to use a complex hud effectively. HUDs have been around since the start of online poker, learning to use them effectively is part of learning to play online poker well.. I've already left pokerstars, for this and many other reasons.
dude... who cares? i use a hud like most others -ive adapted to the new rules... its called POKERSTARS not COMPLEX HUD STARS...

enjoy your complex hud battles where ever you now play
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Old 12-21-2015, 01:22 PM   #3270
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by FishWithBacon View Post
It takes time effort and skill to be able to use a complex hud effectively. HUDs have been around since the start of online poker, learning to use them effectively is part of learning to play online poker well.. I've already left pokerstars, for this and many other reasons.
No, they haven't. Poker Tracker occurred some time after online poker, and it used to just track your results.
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Old 12-21-2015, 04:00 PM   #3271
FishWithBacon
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by 31Alpha View Post
dude... who cares? i use a hud like most others -ive adapted to the new rules... its called POKERSTARS not COMPLEX HUD STARS...

enjoy your complex hud battles where ever you now play
I've accepted the fact that pokerstars doesn't allow notecaddy. Not having notecaddy has very little effect on my play, in fact it might make me play better given that I need to put more effort into my reads. I am lazy though, and prefer being lazy.

Pokerstars is still the toughest games of any site, regardless.
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Old 12-21-2015, 04:30 PM   #3272
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by FishWithBacon View Post
Case an point, if you watch some hs RIO videos some use it and some don't. It's really a preference thing. If it was such an advantage everyone at hs would have used it.
I would take videos with a grain of salt in regards to what some are using and some are not and with what information they are willing to show and what they aren't.
Just in general, I don't have a specific video or author in mind.

Any extra information is useful, some aren't using it because they aren't as good with the tech, or they rely more on their "feel" or reads.
But even for those relying on feel or reads if they use the extra information when the decision is close they would still benefit.
Just because someone is "crushing" at 5bb without using a hud doesn't mean he wouldn't "crush at 6bb" with some extra info provided by the hud at key points where a decision is close.
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:34 PM   #3273
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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I would take videos with a grain of salt in regards to what some are using and some are not and with what information they are willing to show and what they aren't.
Just in general, I don't have a specific video or author in mind.

Any extra information is useful, some aren't using it because they aren't as good with the tech, or they rely more on their "feel" or reads.
But even for those relying on feel or reads if they use the extra information when the decision is close they would still benefit.
Just because someone is "crushing" at 5bb without using a hud doesn't mean he wouldn't "crush at 6bb" with some extra info provided by the hud at key points where a decision is close.
I think it's possible different people use different ways to find a correct solution. Some are more feel based, some are more math based. A HUD is really just a tool. It seems really hypocritical to me to say that one method of winning is better than another.
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Old 12-22-2015, 05:00 AM   #3274
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by FishWithBacon View Post
I think it's possible different people use different ways to find a correct solution. Some are more feel based, some are more math based. A HUD is really just a tool. It seems really hypocritical to me to say that one method of winning is better than another.
You didn't understand anything from my post :-) And what you are saying doesn't contradict what I said.

Someone can be "feel" based. That is his style. However a HUD will still increase his winrate a bit even if he uses it just rarely.
Let's say he plays zoom, fast folded preflop in a hand where a fish pot bluffed the river.
A few days later vs that fish he faces a pot size bet on the river. Sure he can use his "feel" to decide but he has no info as another similar fish wouldn't bluff that spot, but if he has the HUD he can make a better decision.

So a HUD will help regardless of your style, for some it will be a huge help and for others just a minor one, but it is an advantage regardless of the style
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:51 AM   #3275
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

As someone who uses a HUD I would like to see them banned. The reason being it will discourage mass multi-tabling Regs and encourage Recs. It doesn't matter if this is beneficial to Recs or not it will encourage them to play at the site. The only reason I use a HUD is to even the playing field against other Regs. It does help but I can win without it and would prefer them banned.

Overall I am happy with the direction Pokerstars is going because it will increase the Rec to Reg ratio. I am not a fan of grinding for rakeback so the changes are positive for me.

Wouldn't mind lower rake though. A girl can dream
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