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Old 10-08-2015, 01:08 PM   #3076
AKAWhatALyfe
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Re: Hold Em Manager

https://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/room/prohibited/

It says here a list of those tools that are banned, some huds included. Am I missing something??
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Old 10-08-2015, 01:25 PM   #3077
anti_hero
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Wow... Those new rules are completely ridiculous, arbitrary and borderline impossible to enforce imo...

Instead of this BS, maybe PS could come up with smth like this (posted this in the Jivaro thread before but I guess this is a better place):

I think it would be a great idea of pokerstars to offer a built-in HUD (with opt-in feature) and abolish all third party software.

I think a lot of people are quite delusional if they assume recs have never heard of HUDs or that people use statistics software to play online poker. Some of the fish I know personally actually stopped playing online because they felt that people using this software have an unfair advantage on them.

By using an opt-in feature, regs could choose to opt-in and use the basic built-in HUD provided by the client. However, they would be only able to see stats of other opted-in players. If a rec does not want to use the HUD, his stats won't show up for the HUD users.

With this option, regs would still be able to multi-table as they have stats on other regs (and obv you could immediately identify the fish as they won't be opted-in). For the recs however, it would feel way more fair as they would know that nobody is able to use any statistics on them. This would somehow level the field (at least as perceived by the recs) and still let people multi-table efficiently. Moreover, if pokerstars announces that third-party software is now banned, a lot of casual players would feel way safer playing online again. If you ever played live, you probably know tons of these rigtards, who stopped playing online because they know that people use software and feel disadvantaged or straight-up cheated.

Thoughts?
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Old 10-08-2015, 01:41 PM   #3078
otatop
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Re: Hold Em Manager

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKAWhatALyfe View Post
https://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/room/prohibited/

It says here a list of those tools that are banned, some huds included. Am I missing something??
You're missing the part that says:
Quote:
Can you give some examples of acceptable tools and services ?
The following are examples of tools and services which are permitted:

NOTE: PokerStars does not make any guarantees regarding the functionality, reliability, or safety of any of these tools or services.

Hold’em Manager 2 (including Hold’em Manager Sync)
And also that they haven't banned HUDs entirely, just "HUDs are no longer permitted to display non-numerical data, categorize players or dynamically display statistics specific to a certain situation."

Last edited by Bobo Fett; 10-08-2015 at 04:12 PM. Reason: Added quote to avoid confusion after merging threads.
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:29 PM   #3079
NicestoryiCALL
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

any cliff on how they plan to enforce the rules ?
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Old 10-09-2015, 04:10 AM   #3080
The Nemesis
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Im not following this thread very closely, but i need to know if i need to change my HM2 HUD. I dont want to inadvertantly breach the TOS, but its too confusing to fiugure out what can and cant be in my HUD.

will HM2 be updated to reflect the PS changes?
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Old 10-09-2015, 04:25 AM   #3081
Error Prone
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Husker View Post
48k spectrum for me
I really want to get all alpha-nerd and announce I had a 16k, but that was Dad's that I was allowed to use sometimes. My first computer was the 128k Spectrum (insert dubstep joke here). I started programming on the QL - that was a better machine than its success suggests.

Maybe that's the solution? Make everyone play poker on ZX Spectrums (Spectra?) - 128k = no room to run 3rd party software.
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Old 10-09-2015, 04:34 AM   #3082
randomuser1
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

I like the long-term idea that a built-in HUD in the client will be the only allowed one.
Players would have the option to opt-in, and only then be able to see stats of other opted-in players. That way both regs and recs could choose what route to take.
A number of questions arise though that needs to be sorted. Such as players not being allowed to switch this on/off as it pleases/too often.

Still awaiting clarification regarding enforcing of the current rules.
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Old 10-09-2015, 08:56 AM   #3083
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Im not following this thread very closely, but i need to know if i need to change my HM2 HUD. I dont want to inadvertantly breach the TOS, but its too confusing to fiugure out what can and cant be in my HUD.

will HM2 be updated to reflect the PS changes?
If you are using the latest HM2 beta update you won't have to do anything to be in compliance with the new rules.
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Old 10-09-2015, 09:18 AM   #3084
Jafeeio
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

So I am seeing a warning that Tableninja 1 is not in compliance with the new Pokerstars TOS. I don't see any issue with it as long as you don't use the "add 1bb per limper" option.

Can we get an official word on this so I don't have to pay monthly for 3 hotkeys?
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:15 AM   #3085
MKarne
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by randomuser1 View Post
I like the long-term idea that a built-in HUD in the client will be the only allowed one.
Players would have the option to opt-in, and only then be able to see stats of other opted-in players.
built in, yes, but no opt in at the same table is possible as it is not a hud.
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Old 10-09-2015, 11:37 AM   #3086
analihilator
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

basically if you keep using an old version of PT or HM that retains your old colour codes they will ignore you. maybe until you have enough $ to be worth banning for violation. because suddenly the same system of colour codes (without any other external programs: THATS IMPORTANT, YOU CANT TREAT ME LIKE THE PEOPLE WHO USE WHATEVER OTHER PROGRAMS IF I DONT BECAUSE I ****ING DONT AND IF YOU CANT TELL WHO IS OR WHO ISNT THEN HOW HOW HOW ARE YOU ENFORCING.) is cheating when it wasnt for the past however many years. great
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Old 10-09-2015, 05:43 PM   #3087
Ninja Support
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafeeio View Post
So I am seeing a warning that Tableninja 1 is not in compliance with the new Pokerstars TOS. I don't see any issue with it as long as you don't use the "add 1bb per limper" option.

Can we get an official word on this so I don't have to pay monthly for 3 hotkeys?
Hi,

The limpers are the ony thing affected at this time. However Pokerstars will warn you that TN1 is no longer an allowed 3rd party software, and it may decide to take further actions, such as freezing your account.
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Old 10-09-2015, 08:01 PM   #3088
Jafeeio
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Support View Post
Hi,

The limpers are the ony thing affected at this time. However Pokerstars will warn you that TN1 is no longer an allowed 3rd party software, and it may decide to take further actions, such as freezing your account.
Thanks for the response.

I also emailed Pokerstars support and indeed got this answer:

Quote:
Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately, TableNinja 1 is no longer permitted at PokerStars. In order to continue using this software, its prohibited features will need to be removed by the developer in an update. However, my understanding is that this software is no longer supported.
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Old 10-10-2015, 06:48 AM   #3089
PokerIvey
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Will function stats like this on pokerstars with the new rule:

CallCB-45.1-66.5
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:46 AM   #3090
PokerIvey
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerIvey View Post
Will function stats like this on pokerstars with the new rule:

CallCB-45.1-66.5
Is the betsize
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Old 10-11-2015, 03:01 PM   #3091
UnlimitedRed
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Support View Post
Hi,

The limpers are the ony thing affected at this time. However Pokerstars will warn you that TN1 is no longer an allowed 3rd party software, and it may decide to take further actions, such as freezing your account.
Well this sucks, I don't even use limper bets. I appreciate that you no longer support TN1 and would like as many TN1 users as possible to migrate over to TN2 but it would be very cool of you to issue a small patch to remove the banned feature.
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Old 10-11-2015, 03:50 PM   #3092
TimStone
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimitedRed View Post
Well this sucks, I don't even use limper bets. I appreciate that you no longer support TN1 and would like as many TN1 users as possible to migrate over to TN2 but it would be very cool of you to issue a small patch to remove the banned feature.
https://youtu.be/D4t3EG8Pnco
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Old 10-11-2015, 07:36 PM   #3093
UnlimitedRed
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimStone View Post
Probably this. Seriously though, can PokerStars please reconsider the decision to ban TableNinja 1 because of a tiny single checkbox?

Mine is set to 'plus 0.00 per limper' and has been forever and I'll happily send a screenshot of the setting with an e-mail to support stating that I will not change this value.
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Old 10-12-2015, 05:42 AM   #3094
bhoylegend
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by analihilator View Post
support@pokerstars.com
12:20 PM (3 hours ago)

to me
Hello Jesse,

Thank you for your further email. We understand your frustration with this situation and we will do our best to address your concerns.

As stated previously, we permit heads-up displays (HUDs) to alter the colour of an individual statistic based on a *maximum* of two different thresholds. As with the previous example, a HUD may show a VPIP statistic in red if it is less than 20%, white if it is between 20%-30% and green if it is greater than 30%. So ten colours would imply that far more than two thresholds are used, and hence would now be prohibited as we do not wish for the data to be displayed in a manner that provides too much guidance to the end-user on the appropriate action to take in a given situation.

We do understand that you still must "figure out a situation" for yourself so to speak, however, one must appreciate the larger topic at hand and the debate of HUDs and third party tools used during game play in general. There are other sites who have taken measures to ban HUD use and statistical data of any kind altogether, and yet others that have not implemented any sort of rule or guideline on using or enforcing use of any type of third party tool. At this point in time, we have decided to strike a balance between these two extremes. We wish for players playing multiple tables and in high volume to consider actions with the aid of tools with information accrued only through their own game play, but we still believe that additional measures must be implemented in order to regulate such tools as described above.

We believe that allowing HUDs to set too many colour thresholds for individual statistics can create many situations that provide too much guidance, particularly when used in conjunction with other features and tools that remain permitted. Regardless of whether the colours are user defined, the HUD would be providing more guidance than we are comfortable with. To draw an analogy, albeit an extreme one, we prohibit automated bot programs from playing even though the strategy is defined and updated by the bot developer or operator.

I trust that this helps clarify our position. If you have any other questions or concerns, please let us know. Best of luck at the tables!

Regards,

Alex
PokerStars Game Integrity


my response:

i havent spent the past couple years in some lab cooking up an AI to make my decisions
for me. i've spent them developing a HUD and learning how to use it effectively and efficiently. i've never used a single ****ing one of whatever these tools you're talking about are. don't even know what they are. table ninja ? note caddy ? odds oracle ? i've literally never used a single one of them and never will. the only thing that has changed about my game over time is I HAVE IMPROVED, and one of the main reasons for that is streamlining and customising my HUD, and the color thresholds are an extremely important aspect of that. NOW YOU'RE MAKING ME FEEL LIKE I'M A CHEAT. like i'm somehow doing something wrong by improving my game. there is NOTHING automated about a single decision i have made over however many hundreds of thousands of hands i've played on your site. every single decision has been made by ME.

your argument is akin to saying that because terrorists sometimes get on public transport, you're going to stop everyone from catching a bus. making loyal customers feel like they are cheats is a disgusting attitude. on my first warning i will withdraw my remaining funds and go find a site where i am made mo feel welcome instead of made to feel like a cheat.


best of luck killing online poker !


regards,
Jesse
lol
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Old 10-12-2015, 10:54 AM   #3095
Dr.FatCat
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

somebody mad yo
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Old 10-12-2015, 12:19 PM   #3096
G3K0
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

if pokersites go down teh no local HH files == no huds/tools/bots they also need to ensure they make commensurate efficient P/L reporting tools / reports available for their users.

Tax reporting issues for players have been discussed ad nauseam in this forum and in others
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Old 10-12-2015, 03:20 PM   #3097
nujabes
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimitedRed View Post
Well this sucks, I don't even use limper bets. I appreciate that you no longer support TN1 and would like as many TN1 users as possible to migrate over to TN2 but it would be very cool of you to issue a small patch to remove the banned feature.
+1

Such a fluid software compared to TN2.
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Old 10-12-2015, 04:16 PM   #3098
dj1337
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by nujabes View Post
+1

Such a fluid software compared to TN2.
+2, i was only using tn1 for a few features that still worked like bet sizing, bb amount, never used the 1bb per limper feature. Would suck to have to upgrade to tn2 just a few features.
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Old 10-12-2015, 10:16 PM   #3099
ishter
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

I am using Starshelper version 1.1.3.6, is this version in-line with these new changes?
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Old 10-13-2015, 12:56 AM   #3100
Dr.FatCat
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

yes
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