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Old 09-12-2015, 05:46 AM   #2726
lancelott_
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

idk how much hate this will evolve into but here`s a thing, as this argument that some guys keep brining in just tilts me so hard.
HUDs, or any software really isnt a factor for recs getting bust, and it doesnt affect the speed at which recs are getting bust (we all know that stop pretending lol, u guys protect poor recs with no self-interest riiiight).
Game gotten to such a level that recs have no shot regardless if regs play with or w/o a hud. Anybody who`s at least a litte bit competent knows its true. We can all play 4 tables w/o any piece of software and true recs would lose at same -bb/100, there is no chance that`s not the case.
So all arguments about `oh stop hud using, it hurts recs they are afraid to play online, they are getting bust real quickly` is a total complete bs.
True recs dont give a fk about u using hud, they are recs for a reason, they dont lurk 2p2 in Internet Poker, read books, watch vids, or use huds. They watch TV, talk poker with their buddies at work or when doing sunday grill.
If anything, its stuff like BlackFriday, FTP/PS cheating with banks (and this info being shown on national TV/newspapers), or Bots problem online (again being shown on public information channels) that would be the MAIN and only factor that would scare any true rec from playing online when they communicate in their local casinos or at work.
And for all of u saying `im a rec player, i hate HUDs`, come on, u are lurking 2p2. U propably used to play professionally/semi-pro and studies the game at some point of ur life hard (and now mb u wanna make few hundred $ a month poker being ur `hobby`, or u simply cant beat the games). Ur not fkng recs jesus christ, stop pouring BS into ppl`s heads.
The fact that u dont wanna use a hud for whatever ur own reason (or dont wanna make ur hud better), and thus dont want everybody else use it is quite ******ed.
I dont like when computer (software) is making an almost automated decision for you, thats for sure against what a fair game is. Huds been there forever since the very beggining and its never been an issue when poker was making a huge climb up, and surely has nothing to do with being a factor why poker is sliding down right now. There are other factors why its the case. PS/amaya being huge monopoly is also part of the problem. This is just not healthy industry with no realistic competitors (u can read as no real motivation for one site to offer better bonuses, RB deals, commercial investments etc). For fk sake, we havent had one single cash game being shown on TV in a while now, as amya doesnt feel the need to invest into this (we have had HSP, PAD, BG in the past etc), although i`m quite certain its one of the best ways of getting new blood into online poker economy. I know it cose i constently talk with actual recs about what they care about poker or not. Poker is just dead on TV which is huge downfall from back in the day.
Finally, there is no way of catching bots if u dont have at least some tracking system, and that is one of the main actual problems thats preventing real recs from playing online.
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Old 09-12-2015, 06:31 AM   #2727
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by FreakDaddy View Post
My best estimation is that maybe 3% of students know how to take advantage of the software they own.
Sites need to decide if it makes better sense to cater for that 3% or the other 97%.

Your other points are valid though.

Last edited by LektorAJ; 09-12-2015 at 06:40 AM.
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Old 09-12-2015, 06:42 AM   #2728
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by lancelott_ View Post
Game gotten to such a level that recs have no shot regardless if regs play with or w/o a hud. Anybody who`s at least a litte bit competent knows its true. We can all play 4 tables w/o any piece of software and true recs would lose at same -bb/100, there is no chance that`s not the case.
I agree with this, recs can't beat regs longterm. All they want is a fair game with the same interface.
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Old 09-12-2015, 10:55 AM   #2729
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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I agree with this, recs can't beat regs longterm. All they want is a fair game with the same interface.
No, what they want is a fair game with their interface. If Stars forced everyone to have the same advanced HUD, recs would run a mile.
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Old 09-12-2015, 11:58 AM   #2730
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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How do you explain the completely different player experience (and winrates) on Unibet or Bovada or anonymous tables on MPN in comparison to the experience and winrates on Pokerstars?
Teh main reason for this isnt teh hudfree or anonymus environment, its teh fact that bovada caps at 4 table pP iirc

If stars would have a tablecap of 4 or max 1 zoom entry pP games would be soft as **** with or without hud and a bunch of people would have 10bb+ across small and midstakes

There is a ****ton of fish on stars, i would even say waaay more than 4 years ago but you also have 5× more regs. Its a big difference if u share a fish with 5 other regs or if there are 3 netlosers at your table
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Old 09-12-2015, 01:04 PM   #2731
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

I somewhat agree with you Tim. I think mass-tabling is a bigger problem than HUD use itself. But if HUDs don't function (or are relatively useless due to frequent screenname changes or anonymity), then it's much harder for regs to play tons of tables, because they don't have the visual reminder (e.g. a bright green box around someone's stats) of who they are targeting on a particular table when it pops up.
Without a HUD, I can't remember the tendencies of every player on more than 4 tables. With a HUD, I can instantly tell when to quit a table, or alter my default gameplan to exploit someone in particular. Without a HUD, my ability to multi-table is massively reduced and that improves the rec:reg ratio. If Stars limited multi-tabling to 6 or 8 tables, the games would immediately improve and winrates for strong players would go up as you said. Stars could just introduce table caps, but doing it in a roundabout way and making HUDs less useful sort of works too.
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Old 09-12-2015, 02:33 PM   #2732
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
If Stars limited multi-tabling to 6 or 8 tables, the games would immediately improve and winrates for strong players would go up as you said. Stars could just introduce table caps, but doing it in a roundabout way and making HUDs less useful sort of works too.
With the added recreational players per table weaker players would also experience wins more often in most part from winning pots/$ from other weaker players. Some would run up their bankrolls, take shots at higher stakes and feed the poker economy in that way. I'd like to think on a whole they would get better value for their buck than in the current system and at the very least PokerStar's re-depositors would increase from that more positive experience. Maybe people would even chat with them from time to time at the table as well

Stars has artificially created a format in Spins where long term minus EV players can win in the short term due to the variance of the Spin wheel but they could create a better environment for this to happen in the standard games as well.

The downside is PokerStars immediate profit would go to hell
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Old 09-12-2015, 06:08 PM   #2733
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
I somewhat agree with you Tim. I think mass-tabling is a bigger problem than HUD use itself. But if HUDs don't function (or are relatively useless due to frequent screenname changes or anonymity), then it's much harder for regs to play tons of tables, because they don't have the visual reminder (e.g. a bright green box around someone's stats) of who they are targeting on a particular table when it pops up.
Without a HUD, I can't remember the tendencies of every player on more than 4 tables. With a HUD, I can instantly tell when to quit a table, or alter my default gameplan to exploit someone in particular. Without a HUD, my ability to multi-table is massively reduced and that improves the rec:reg ratio. If Stars limited multi-tabling to 6 or 8 tables, the games would immediately improve and winrates for strong players would go up as you said. Stars could just introduce table caps, but doing it in a roundabout way and making HUDs less useful sort of works too.
Meh, everything u mention rgd huds would only be valid if we speaking ano tables, no regular would need to drop down in tables bc there arent many supermassgrinders left (i played 20-24 tables for 5 years and playing now max 12-14 bc even with hud it became way harder to masstable). Now if they ban huds not a single thing changes, id still play 12-14. If u play 100+ there are v few regulars left who have obv leaks u can identify directly in teh hud. I know which guys are regs and unknowns are 95% fish or semifish. Not v hard to figure out in which games u wanna sit even without a hud

Cliffs: getting rid of huds changes barely anything
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Old 09-12-2015, 09:19 PM   #2734
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by TimStone View Post
Teh main reason for this isnt teh hudfree or anonymus environment, its teh fact that bovada caps at 4 table pP iirc

If stars would have a tablecap of 4 or max 1 zoom entry pP games would be soft as **** with or without hud and a bunch of people would have 10bb+ across small and midstakes

There is a ****ton of fish on stars, i would even say waaay more than 4 years ago but you also have 5× more regs. Its a big difference if u share a fish with 5 other regs or if there are 3 netlosers at your table
Yep, I agree.The chance of stars capping number of tables is probably less than zero.
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Old 09-13-2015, 06:00 PM   #2735
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Has anyone noticed a significant increase in russians using seating scripts recently?

Does anyone know of a russian seating script provider that has become prevalent recently?
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Old 09-14-2015, 02:09 AM   #2736
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by LoneUltralisk View Post
Has anyone noticed a significant increase in russians using seating scripts recently?

Does anyone know of a russian seating script provider that has become prevalent recently?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYTfzfsbiUI
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Old 09-17-2015, 08:03 PM   #2737
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Are the ToS changing in 4 hours?
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Old 09-22-2015, 08:52 AM   #2738
bdxero
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

I asked stars support about pokerstrategy equalab, they said its allowed program, how pokerstove isnt?
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Old 09-22-2015, 04:11 PM   #2739
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Pokerstove is still on the allowed list (.eu website)
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Old 09-25-2015, 07:24 AM   #2740
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

72 hours until D-Day? PokerStars lack of comment itt is kinda annoying. Then seeing Keith telling all comers this it the thread to be posting/reading makes it incredibly bad imo.

I made a PT4 stat yesterday for "bet/check/bet from SB in limped pot HU", and shared it with some people. will this now become illegal? who the **** knows, lol.
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Old 09-25-2015, 09:26 AM   #2741
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

I haven't kept up with this thread, anyone cliffs from the last month?
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Old 09-25-2015, 10:25 AM   #2742
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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I haven't kept up with this thread, anyone cliffs from the last month?
Nothing really as far as I can tell.
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Old 09-25-2015, 10:29 AM   #2743
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

What is this 72 hours to D-day?
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:50 PM   #2744
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Aren't new rules supposed to be in effect 28th September?
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Old 09-25-2015, 06:16 PM   #2745
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

yeah ^.


just reiterating stars is ******ed on this.
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Old 09-25-2015, 06:26 PM   #2746
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Cliffs of Pokerstars participation in thread:
* Started thread with an ambiguous statement
* Took absolutely no part in any discussion whatsoever
* Abruptly banned Skier's software and forewarned that updated guidelines will follow
* Took absolutely no further part in thread up to this point.
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Old 09-25-2015, 06:30 PM   #2747
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes


This is what some of the nefarious characters might do ^.

I definitely DO NOT intend on breaking the new PS rules about having charts up and I WILL NOT have them up on a side computer. But I do have an extra laptop, so I decided to display it next to my setup for DEMONSTRATION PURPOSES ONLY FOR THIS POST.


If I had to guess I would say that no one will likely do anything like this and everyone will follow the new rules and not have any charts up on the side. But... I do think a good way for PS to enforce this would be for them to go to players houses unannounced and give them quizzes on their mixed frequencies. I also think a good way to enforce it would be having a stars rep present at someone's house for 10k hands and watch them play and see if the players frequencies align with their previous 10k hands. This will likely work and further deter anyone from breaking the rules having charts up and it will be fair.



Edit:
It's just really frustrating. I developed a system that is in no way IMO cheating or unfair and everyone had the same opportunity to develop it with some very cheap common software that everyone owns (Microsoft excel). And if I follow the new rules (which I really do intend to) I will be getting absolutely, undeniably, guaranteed, 1000 ****ing % freerolled and "cheated" against because people will use it on a side machine. And PS will not be able to tell or enforce it unless people have very very precise frequencies and never deviate.

Last edited by TooCuriousso1; 09-25-2015 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 09-25-2015, 07:13 PM   #2748
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

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Originally Posted by _dave_ View Post
Aren't new rules supposed to be in effect 28th September?
Only for the poor bastards who play by the rules.
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Old 09-25-2015, 07:20 PM   #2749
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

New Pokerstars rules

Note re SpinWiz, on page 32,

Quote:
Similarly, the following tools would be prohibited:
•Tools which time a players registration into a global waiting list of all Spin & Go users in order to avoid other classes of players
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Old 09-25-2015, 07:48 PM   #2750
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Re: 3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Interesting. Just as my spinwiz registration expires

Let the bloodbath commence.
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