Interesting, thanks. I guess gameutil2.exe does the same thing.

Every site I've played on has this clause in the ToS, and every poker client I've used has scanned my PC to see what I'm running at the same time. (The 888 software, for example, knows which app you use to listen to mp3s).

One of the problems that is showing up recently is that players can "cloak" their software from the scanning process, and in some cases it's as simple as running the software on a separate laptop that's not even connected to the main PC or even the internet. Most pro players are capable of multi-tabling, and many use multiple screens when playing. It's a not a great leap to expect some to communicate with their 'Dream Machine' for voice-activated advice.
With the right tools and/or programming nous, it's apparently possible to do the equivalent of "Ask Siri" when you're faced with a tricky river decision and you want to look up the correct move in a hurry. I can't think of any way a site can prevent players from asking a "GTO bot" for advice if it's sitting on the other side of the room.
In the competitive chess world, players aren't allowed to take their smartphones (loaded with analysis/advice software) on to the tournament floor. How can Stars stop people running software aids on separate PCs in their own basements?

No Patrick quit because by his own admission, he's a "feel player", which I interpret as he really doesn't want to learn and understand GTO and the smaller equity edges. He thrives in live settings, and when the online games have dried up because the markets are being shut down, he'd prefer to go where he has the bigger edge.

Online poker is NOT live poker. They are much different, and you need to rely on more math and understanding GTO play online, than you do live. This is why so many online players can go into live play, and then start to learn the physical tells and live nuances and dominate the games, but players moving from mostly live to online play typically struggle.

So then they struggle, and guess what's the first thing they want to blame....

Yeah, it's not them unwilling to put the work in and learn... or that they aren't good enough.

It must be the software! Ban the software!

lol.... it's really not the problem, nor is it the reason the games have become more difficult.

If you are unable to use a HUD it has nothing to do with the fact you're 29.

So of the software isn't the reason the games are tough, why not just get rid of it then......?

So you don't think the software is getting too powerful or has the potential to become too powerful then?

To think software hasn't made the games tougher is; ignorant or naive.

Thanks for pointing that out Husker, what i meant by 29 was that learning computer skills was not possible when i was younger due to they hadn't been invented yet,but it is fair to assume (and indeed proved given the age of the average top Online players) that age bracket,give or take a few years either side, are all computer savvy,and therefore are competent at analysing and using the various stats available on a HUD (virtually hundreds apparently) well not virtually, but actually.

Someone posted the possibility of On-line pokers imploding, due to the software, HUD usage, and now the subject is being bandied about more often in various forums etc in poker world so natch Stars and other sites are giving this some real thought.

IMO, if you are a social player who wants value for his spare money he has available to murder at pokers, it is hard to go past PKR as a fun to play on site.
If any readers haven't played there, i challenge you to go play some games on the site and then come back here and tell us you did NOT have the best FUN ever playing online, then you can berate me for all to see.

I think I stated it pretty clearly, because they are not the reason the games are tough.

The games got dramatically tougher post black Friday. And as other markets continued to close throughout Europe and the rest of the world, you lose the fish you aren't going to go through all of the hassle to play on non-regulated sites. It's as simple as that.

I've played online and live for over 11 years. I've played at high stakes for many years, and I've produced countless training videos and coached hundreds of players. My best estimation is that maybe 3% of students know how to take advantage of the software they own. Most if the difficulty of the games is because less fish are present. And, like poker has done since the first poker book was printed, more information and study about it has improved the average regular.

Look, if we took an honest poll, which probably is never going to happen, and asked the people who were anti online poker software, if they mostly played live or not, I'd bet well over 90% would say that's their main game.

The honest and fair answer is that online poker is a completely different game than live poker. If you don't like online poker, don't play it. But software, and delving into deeper aspects of the game is part of online poker. Instead of trying to strangle and control the market, allow it within some common sense regulation, to continue to evolve how it has.

I would bet my entire roll and both my children's college funds that if we banned all poker software today, the games would not change one iota in terms of their difficulty.

What I would implore stars and other companies to do is to re-visit whatever decision they do make. Because if we removed it all, I'd like to see what people's opinion of it was a year after the ban. What would they blame next?

I'm neither ignorant nor naive, but thank you.

I am 57. I started using computers at about 14 in 1972, writing Fortran programs on paper and executing them in my head! I first got my hands on a real hardware computer two years later. Age is no barrier, rather interest and motivation. I know I am not alone. There are many older players with strong analytical skills.

I much prefer online poker play because of all the analysis and mathematics involved and because of the challenge of constantly improving to stay a winner. I hate live play with all the smelly drunks and boorish aggro behaviour and the play is way to slow and too easy to win that there is no challenge.

My 2p... Spinwiz offers an advantage to players which isn't available to all. Therefore it's unfair. It's obvious why some are arguing for it -> they benefit from it.

The current situation with it, along with seating scripts, the whole bot thing. It all stinks tbh.

If there is one great thing about zoom, is that it's fair for everyone. I'm suprised PokerStars aren't doing more to promote an equal playing field in other formats.

lol @ 29 being too old to know computer skills

And I'll ask again, if the software hasn't made the games tougher, than we can just do away with it and no one would notice.... Right?

Legit software that makes games tougher is not in use while playing.

Making it less convenient to play by banning TableNinja, for example - will certainly not lead to a new golden era of soft games. This should be obvious.

I think you are wrong here. I believe a lot of them are online players who just want a fairer more level playing field for everyone including recreational players.

Then getting rid of huds and such should be no problem, yes?

Well congrats to you,the first computer i ever heard of was the Sinclair or Atari but while i was at school we had no computers whatsoever, just we were told that they were the way of the future. Perhaps cos i live DownUnder we got hold of them much later than a country with a decent sized population, mebbe like where you live.

Going by what you say, online poker must be right up your alley ie analyses,math involved etc. I agree with your analysis of live play, nothing worse than being around drunks when you are sober. Have you ever noticed how drunk people seem to run sooo good, damn frustrating especially if they are the type who miracles a winning hand consistantly and gives everyone a speech as he rakes in the pot

Perhaps you misread it or i didnt convey the point correctly,i was meaning that guys who were the best players pre Black Friday would be around that age now and generally younger guys,fresh out of or still getting education appeared to be adept at using software and learning to use it effectively as opposed to people who were older.
The young wizards of online pokers learned to be so adept with help from software, where the older guys pre poker software learned the game through endless hours spent at the table, learned the hard way, where the wizards initially learned through software, and eventually honed that into a great live game. I trust this helps clarify what i mean or i shall contact stealthmunk for some suicide tips.

No, it would be a massive problem and lead to large amounts of cheating / unfair advantage in almost every game type (the proper definition, not the idiocy banded about by people too lazy to put in work itt). The type of unfair advantage PokerStars is heading towards with the rumoured new rules such as "no charts larger than 1 A4 page".

There are HUD free sites already - support them, play in their soft games.

Sure, let's wipe out a small industry because we believe this is the cause. But it's not.

More importantly, you can't ban them. They will just go under ground. And then there will be a select number of people who have an even bigger "unfair advantage". It's just nonsensical to try and do it.

I think everything needs to have common sense rules. But if the software is available to all, there's no unfair advantage. Everyone has an opportunity to purchase, learn, and use the same software.

While I disagree, I'll play along for the sake of conversation. Where do the limits of software go then?

I have a great idea! Tables that allow all software and tables that allow NONE! You regs can kill each other and us casual guys can gamboooool it up.

Btw, has stars given an updates?

Whilst this is true, a lot of recreational/casual players don't have the money, time or dedication to do this.

As they are the life-blood of any poker site something needs to be done to protect them imo.

Why does no one else understand this?!