Sorry mate but PS admitted in the OP that the current rules are not working/are not right. Changing those rules and pposals on that are the thead.

Cartels can only operate via third party seating software, they are 100% relevant to the topic. Indeed it was whining by a cartel that did not have access to a new tool that started it...petard, own, irony.

Most people that you would consider to be software freaks would probably be overjoyed if it were actually possible to create a "clean" environment simply by altering a TOS. That's obviously not the case though, considering that data mining, hand history sharing, botting, etc. are already against TOS and still prevalent. It's going to take a lot more than just rules changes to solve these types of problems.

QFT. in fact if Adelson had a brain he'd pay for the ad.

You could be on to something their! You can play and login as:
A) player with HeM2 or PTR4
Or
B) no tools at all and anon username

But and its a big BUT!! When trying to prevent cheating and with the advance of very difficult to detect software bots. It would be a nightmare going through a few million anons and trying to catch them all as they are all anon!!

So bad idea!! Solution, if you want to play say 6 max PLO then one way is to join a huge moving queue that's sits you at a table and you can't pick the table you want to sit at. If you sit out then you get put back in the queue and on another table. Not the same as zoom but same randomly picked opponents?!

Well that's my 5 cents for what it's worth!

Your wrong in a big way as told to you by our UK union leader of the UKGC Mr Richas
I've got private emails from Pokerstars and I've shared just the one which is rule changes and they are still investigating what is turning out to be a headache for them too. I will not share the other 2 emails from Pokerstars as they have had the courtesy to fully answer mine and my wife's concerns and address all issues & I don't want a breakdown of trust between us.

But it's not going to be a short investigation and they are indeed regulated by the UKGC which means any complaint from anyone in the UK has to be fully investigated and Pokerstars as quoted by Richas must supply all details of any collision etc. Pokerstars are saying that those who have not been banned so far do have the right to be heard so that they don't ban the wrong person and confiscate his/her cash. It's basically red tape that the UKGC and Pokerstars now have to abide by and this won't be solved in days and I've been told this. It does not mean this subject is going to be brushed under the carpet but this is a very serious and delicate bunch of allegations covering a few different countries with their own regulations for example if an Australian makes a complaint against a Russian Bot for example then that gambling commission gets involved too, so it's a global thing where a lot of different nationalities have been caught up in this alleged "bot scandal" being the victims of crime. Their is not a global one only gambling commission but stars will be dealing with multiple gambling commissions all over the world. It's not a quick resolution for getting compensation which as $.50-$1.00/$3-6 PLO is played by mainly a smaller player group of the same 500 regs plus more recs in that group.

So the wait goes on...

I Meant to include Mr Bravadomachos post and not Richas. Sorry Richas as its bravos post I was rattling on about

When you enter into a conspiracy with others in order to collude in table selection does it for me, feel free to pick a different line if you like.

Yes

3rd Party Software on PokerStars: Proposed Rule Changes

Pro-tip: If you grind for Supernova Elite every year, your brain eventually turns to mush and you end up saying things like...
The sickest thing is not that SnG cartels exist. It's that Stars supports them. Stars likes cartels and Stars likes seating scripts and Stars likes HUDs, because Stars likes breakeven grinders that generate a ton of rake. Stars likes clones of teh TimStone and Mecastyles, because Stars likes turkeys that vote for Christmas.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Regs are paying thousands of dollars for software in an arms race that leads to none of them having an edge, while Stars and the parasitical software manufacturers make bank.
Poker players are supposed to be intelligent and understand long term EV. Why can't you see that your own short-term selfishness is being exploited, and you're voting for your own extinction? Have none of you noticed what's been happening in the real world in the last century, but especially in the last twenty years? Automation initially leads to lower wages. Ultimately it leads to the dole queue. Or to put it another way: First you work like a robot, and then you get replaced by one.

I think I'm finished with this debate. The HUDbot rakeslaves that support the status quo are getting the poker site they deserve. Enjoy your ever-diminishing incomes! It's what you want, isn't it?

So well put.. The lack of long term thinking in here is really shocking for a group that's supposed to make a living off exactly that - long term thinking.

Somebody should go back in time and give that memo to cardrunners and co

to be fair, in theory automation is a good thing in that it makes the world run on less human muscle. question is, do we want* to be replaced by bots in a given domain. i can think of at least one where we may want to think twice before letting this happen. unless ..oh wait ..you said orgasmatron2.0 is already a thing?

+10.000

First of all, im not in any group at this moment. So if they were truly such a terrible thing Id be against it.

2nd of all, I have not paid thousands in software at all, all i use is PT4 and TN2, i could even ditch tn2 and use the pokerstars hotkeys if i wanted. Im quite sure my edge would be higher if huds were completely banned as my exploitation game is not that great sometimes.

3rd of all, heads up players in general are no hudbot rakeslaves. They pay compared to some other gametypes not that much rake and alot of their game is exploitation against fish they have 10 hands on.

Whether they use datamined hands is another story which obvioulsy is forbidden in every way under the current terms of service so to discuss datamining is beating a dead horse. Pokerstars needs to attack datamine sites and people selling datamined services.

I also never said im not in favor of limiting ingame software to a certain point. Limiting the power of a (dynamic) hud or limiting the power of a dynamic chart. By this post alone you have shown that you have no idea what you are talking about and just are spouting some emotional nonsense. I agree with you to a certain point, its up to pokerstars to draw this arbitruary line based on it both being policeable and fair.

Ban all 3rd party software ! Develop your own 3rd party software like steam does with the VAC so you can monitor if anyone is using " cheats ". Is gonna make regs mad at all the stakes and you will lose a lot of players, but it can also mean a new poker boom ( make a cartel with your fellow small rooms that offer poker, ban it all together if possible ). At this point in time, no new player hope to become profitable @ any form of poker, there are no hopes or dreams like in the moneymaker era, that's what destroyed and will keep on destroying online poker. I know you have casino and you are going to introduce sports betting, but you are PokerStars, you have the best software on the market, the largest player pool and you always came with new, innovative ideeas, that's why you are here in this point in time. I say that is time for a new revolutionary ideea, VAC ban all the 3rd party software ( " cheats " ) and you'll have a refreshed online poker ecosystem in 1, 2 years. Do nothing against seat scripting, HUDs and so on and you'll have only casino and sportsbetting in 1, 2 years. You can also make like a 2nd PokerStars software if you want. You can name it World War of Poker Bots and let the software developers fight with their created bots, while you get the rake. It's not fun for any new player to play any game right now on any online site, is too sintetic, no table chat, nobody answers, nobody does anything to keep the fish interested, to keep him in the hook. We all multi table like autistic maniacs to grind that smaller and smaller $/hr. In the end, if we don't accept that a revolutionary move like this is need to be made ASAP, we all gonna pay for bots till we gonna fight for 0.01$/hr winrates and is gonna be the end of online poker, in which no one wins, not even the house.

Time's up.
Now a new question, is PS going to post today or it will takes a month like the last meeting report?

I accept that if PokerStars cannot stop handhistory datamining & selling then I agree with banning all third party software including HUDs and NC as long as this is enforceable. With datamined hands HUDs+ would be potentially very powerful (although you would need more skill to interpret suggestions than non-NC users appreciate).

I chose not to get datamined hands which seems financially foolish if PS won't stop datamining. I enjoy solving the poker puzzle. I foolishly enjoy doing that under my own steam which is why I have written my own NC badges/definitions and not bought an NC-addon and why I use only hands I have played.

I would rather play poker with no-one able to have a HUD than be forced to buy datamined hands.

I think it is really scummy for Pokerstars to not prevent cartels in HU and SpinNGos. It is misleading marketing to present SpinnGos as anonymous queueing when SpinWiz in fact ensures regs avoid each other and recs get only a shark-infested pool. At least with seat-scripting in reg cash games, recs can and many do avoid by simply playing Zoom.

Would you be willing to bet $1000 this is how verification is done? Are you actually willing to admit you either don't understand the process or are lying if not? Should I even try to explain it to you or are you just going to ignore it if it is at odds with whatever picture you are trying to paint?

then, you lying piece of cartel s**t show us prove that sharkystrator is indeed run by some unknown and not by the cartel.

*facepalm*

Lol, this would be like a liquor commercial being played along with a spot for cirrhosis of the liver.

Sent from my GT-I8190 using 2+2 Forums

It is refreshing to watch Nanonoko & PrimordialAA on twitch streams. Nanonoko streams midstakes cash w/o a HUD and using a simple thought process. PrimordialAA streaming $60 SpinNGos while only using shove charts below 8BB (although he does use SpinWiz).

+1 get rid of it all

I'm willing to bet that this process was discussed in detail for the $60 cartel on this very forum, linked to by another player. What bizarre rules the frat club is currently running I don't know, I just read the thread written by the cartel.

Maybe they have to drink a pint of someone else's piss, go up to a beggar in the street and burn a $100 bill in front of them, run naked from A to B - frankly I don't know what they are doing now, all I did was report what they said they were doing in the thread on this very site.

Amazing that I am always accused of lying/falehood when I accept the marketing stuff put out by the S/W providers or the public process described by the cartel itself. You can find both on this forum.

Well bugger me sideways with a pitchfork, pardon me for taking them at their word.

Now if you want to explain the process for your club, detail the s/w used, the role of shared data..go for it....

Both posts are good.

You just request your historic HHs from Pokerstars.
I would really encourage you and others to properly read my prior post on the subject and pm me for more info and if there's still no clarity, post away on this forum.
The 3rd party topic is too important to waste pages on nonsense.