I don't think you get libel. I believe the allegation. I said so. Meanwhile you "know" - how? I don't have the burden of proof here, I am asserting belief, it is you asserting certainty (with zero evidence).

Anyway I'm bored now, HEM and NC et al are routinely used by data cheats. The s/w providers make no effort to prevent that cheating, indeed they add functionality to enable the cheats to merge data and run the automated notes on the cheat data.

There is absolutely no reason why HEM should not declare itself to the poker client and allow the poker site to check the data being used by it vs the player's personal history on the site. Frankly it is astounding that Stars and HEM have not already done this unless the HUD makers don't want data cheats caught.

Amazing that Stars and PT (now merged with HEM) can produce a working HUD for zoom on day one of the product launch but at the same time completely ignore setting up a mechanism to police data cheating.

ah, it's descended into comedic legal threats

Yes, you have. In legal regards the burden of proof is up to you when accused of libel/defamation....but probably crossing your intellectual horizon here. Never mind, have a nice day

depends on where it's tried. in the us, and let's not forget this is a us-based site, burden of proof's on the plaintiff to show the statement's false. and you've also got to show damage, which is kind of comical for a post on an internet forum. have a nice day!

Lol at NoteCaddy shills pretending they don't datamine. Only way you could get a large enough hand sample vs regs for it to be useful would be if you play at least 400nl (smaller player pools), by which point you and your reg opponents should be competent enough that NC is basically redundant.

Fact of the matter is, NC is blatantly a tool to be used in conjunction with datamined hands, primarily by micro/low stakes grinders who are too lazy/brain dead to think for themselves.

Comical that you think that it's ok to post unbased assumptions on the internet and also comical that you think that this can't result in damage.

Sheeeeeet, I have had a proper libel threat (from an anti boookie but pro casino millionaire).

I have no burden of proof - try googling "fair comment" or "reasonable belief". I have more than met that threshold and given you are some guy refusing to say how you "know" different it would be pretty hard for you to show any damages even if I had not (easily) met these thresholds already.

Plus of course there could be the whole truth defence if anyone wanted to push it and let me get disclosure.

If the NoteCaddy guys want to send me a letter from their solicitors, try the PM option but pffft I have no liability here, no lost sleep for me. I believe on the balance of probabilities (the threshold, actually I believe it a bit more) that NoteCaddy did indeed have commercial links to dataminers, I also believe that HEM and NC have made no efforts to prevent data cheating, indeed they have functionality to help data cheaters (truth defence BTW).

Go on, make my day.

@ Richas

Kind of useless to discuss with you. Keep posting your lies......tells a lot about your personality!

I'm not sure where to post this suggestion so I'll post it here but I know that there have been some suggestions inside this thread of Pokersites moving towards anonymous tables as a solution to some problems; data mining; targeting players, etc.

My opinion is that anonymous tables as they are now on a lot of the pokersites lack personality for lack of a better word. I just watched a Bovado video on RunItOnce of Phil Galfond playing on these tables and there is just a seat number next to the players he is playing against.

I know some of said, allow players to routinely change their screen names as a solution. Instead why not just have a player's identity chosen at random every time that they log into play a session. Instead of giving them a number have them be a fox, rabbit, zebra, etc. idk. Maybe verge into the DC comics, famous people, other avenues, and have Superman, Batman, etc screen names, possible avatars at your tables. Just overall make anonymity a bit more personal.

Think about when we play games like monopoly, you are not handed a boring number card but instead you pick a thimble, dog, etc.

I think this would make anonymous tables a lot more personal and fun. I'm a tournament player mostly and do not play on any anonymous sites as of now but I'm assuming the experience is when you move to new tables you are playing a bunch of seat numbers? In my opinion that would seem really impersonal and make it much more difficult to even mentally take notes on players during that session. It would be much more fun to put an action with a "fun" screen name or character.

Thanks a lot mate

fr-nit cry all you want buddy. your software is going to be banned regardless of how much you whine in this thread. Stop insulting people please.

Need research or pool among all players not just 2+2 community.

I would say ban everything in a year and import some features to PS client (HERO total hands stat, HERO winrate stat, possibility to see stacks in BB...)

you need software help to do simple division? jesus

There is a difference between insulting people and calling someone out for posting lies. When you grow up you'll understand this......buddy.

Let me know when you arrive home from whatever planet you're currently orbiting, but feel free to send a screengrab as a postcard to show how nice it is up there.
I just wanted to say that I appreciated ^this^. Decent summary of the situation. MeleaB's comments ITT were legit too.

Couldn't have said it better myself.Great post

This just in...

Civil action launched for defamation.

Plaintiff NoteCaddy

v

Defendant Richas.

All rise.

We might not be able to assume that he has actually read the T&C fineprint but ticking a box stating that one has read and understood T&Cs goes a very long way to obliterating any suggestion of unfairness. It's their fault for not having actually read them.

Oh please, who actually reads the T&C.

nostrakhan
See my Commercial Software thread

Yeah right,

http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...y-herod-clause

Just because people don't actually read the T&Cs doesn't mean it isn't their fault for agreeing to something they only have imputed knowledge of. If it was something severely unreasonable, they might have to do more than include a tickbox but the permission to use software is nothing that could come anywhere close.

Let’s take a second to look at how silly this gap in aid types really is. If the rules go forward as is, anyone with two A4 sheets on their desk is cheating. However, as far as I can tell there are no issues with 10000 character notes, and HUDs can cover virtually unlimited numbers of statistics and details.

I took it upon myself to ‘flatten’ a couple of the ProPokerHUDS:

Please make sure you have fully zoomed in as your browser/image editor/etc WILL display these to you zoomed out.

Exhibit A weighs in at 4250 × 7305 pixels. And it is of the ProPokerHUDs MTT HUD. I copied every single panel I could find into an image, and then I tried to approximate the surface area of the tool tips (there are 126+ stats on the hud and every single one has a tool tip) and then I copied it 9 times to represent all of the information available for one single table.
http://2.1m.yt/aQhbqqemk.png


Exhibit B weights in at a whopping 12090 × 14688 pixels and is so large an image site would not take it. This one is of the 6 max heat map pack. In this HUD each player has 21 statistics, each of which display a heat map. Each hand in each heat map has a tooltip. All of these items have been flattened to approximate the surface area for a the HUD on a 6 player table. You’ll have to download this one: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=...17262317610807

It gets worse, Heat Maps are coming to the MTT HUD and add on packs with hundreds of stats are available so these could be much, much bigger. I hate to see what throwing NoteCaddy into the mix could do. Not only that, but the statistic add on packs tell you how many stats they have and how many stats (1600!!) exceed the PokerTracker cache limit! [1] Call me presumptuous, but, would that exist if people were not hitting that limit? Let’s not forget HUDs breaking the proposed content rules of reference material either (Under the new rules, prohibited while the client is open: "Any tool or reference material that offers commentary or advice that goes beyond a basic level, such as stack-size-based starting hand tables, decision trees or heads-up displays that dynamically change based on player action or card values."):



My HUD can even display the relevant one for the current street without any intervention by me! I think this disconnect between rules relating to various levels of ‘aid’ is just going to lead to a bunch of loopholes where the undesired behaviour will be piled into the aid type with the least stringent of rules. With the proposed rules, many HUDs could not have the information they provide access to saved in a static file (or printed on paper) and then accessed in game because the amount of information in them would likely far exceed the size of an A4 sheet! It's unbelievable that I can have software updating displayed information in real time hand after hand, but yet I cannot print the same information and tack it to my wall! (Pokerstars said: "The basic reference material we would permit is something like a single table-based starting hand chart that can be replicated on an A4 sheet of paper.")

[1] http://www.pokerhuds.com/product/flo...ure-stat-pack/

decision trees could mean different things like realtime calculation of subtrees... what propokerhuds made was a better visual of a table...
You can arrange those stat in a table and get the exact same thing

Can you give me an example of a decision tree which can not also be arranged in a table? A decision tree is just another form of presenting data and it's yet another tick in the madness column.