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Old 11-02-2015, 10:42 PM   #501
klimbo
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

As a player who is just on the cusp of actively competing at the 5/10 level online (not on stars but regardless..) this change has completely erased all interest or hope I have in moving up to that level. How can you possibly take out all VPPs for high stakes players??? Which "genius" came up with that? I just don't see how that makes sense in anyone's head.

If you play $3/6 we like you and we will give you up to 30% RB, but if you play $5/10 you are too good for us, so play if you want but we will give you 0%.. thanks!

**** off stars, nothing good has happened here in the last 2 yrs...

And also as a Gold/platinum star I really loved the quarterly $1M freerolls that you have now taken out. I would always play the satellites to get in as I always thought those were awesome tournaments. For those who remember this is just like when you took out the $1M monthly Turbo takedown (3000fpp to enter) after black friday for no good reason. Another tourney that offered great value for your loyal players and I think everyone loved...

You can take all the money and screw all your players but at the end of the day you are digging your own grave with those moves. You are only accelerating the decline of online poker and have effectively tarnished the image of what used to be the world's greatest poker site...
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:51 PM   #502
pg_780
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Quote:
Originally Posted by donjos View Post
Ok, so were going with the theory that they just made u huge mistake/gambol??
I'm going with the theory they don't think its a mistake, they think they'll make more $
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:52 PM   #503
BanZaY
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

in about T-5 minutes, Ansky and Joe Ingram discussing recent changes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntncu_LfT3g
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Old 11-03-2015, 12:14 AM   #504
PatrickStoia
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Hi,

I played an average of 5h a day at pokerstars for the last 5 years, was Supernova for the last 4 years and could make a good living out of it until 2015.

I wasn't a bigtime crusher, just a solid player with constant winnings at NL25FR (3-4bb in the past) NL50 (1-2bb in the past) and together with 6.8k SN Rakeback, SN Freeroll cash ins and some good volume everything was pretty fine for me.

However, since Amaya took over and introduced all that Spin and GO BS, Casino Games and had not 1 promo in 2015 (milestones, vpp races, vpp happy hours, battle of plantes) for classical skill based poker the only conclusion for me can be that they want to get rid off players like me.

Also I dont know what happend to the RNG, but so much BS that I have seen in 2015 I didnt see in the last 4 years before together. Session after session you have Jesus on the "Tabletarget" and literary in 800k hands+ 2015 I cant remember 1 HAND!!! where the target had AA/KK preflop and I setted him and we got the money in for a 200bb pot.

So today, I converted my last FPPs, cashed out everything I had and uninstalled the software.

I had a good time, 3 successful years, but it is time to move on.

There are dozens of other poker sites, and non has such a strong competition like stars, so why not search for something new?

Goodbye Stars, thx for 17k at the 80kkkk Milestone hand and good luck with a spin & goes only poker economy
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Old 11-03-2015, 12:16 AM   #505
maslalo
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Time to pack it up after 2015. gg Stars
SN
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Old 11-03-2015, 12:25 AM   #506
ChicksandPoker
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Rip only new thing i like is that micro stakes players can actually purchase something at there stakes like the 0.25 sit ngo ticket for 25 star coins
Only thing i like
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Old 11-03-2015, 12:28 AM   #507
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Quote:
Originally Posted by BanZaY View Post
in about T-5 minutes, Ansky and Joe Ingram discussing recent changes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntncu_LfT3g
Ty, was decent
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Old 11-03-2015, 12:35 AM   #508
TrustySam
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicksandPoker View Post
Rip only new thing i like is that micro stakes players can actually purchase something at there stakes like the 0.25 sit ngo ticket for 25 star coins
Only thing i like

Was calculating that a Bronze Star would have to play something like 80 of the $0.50 Spin & Gos to make enough coins to get the $0.25 ticket? Guess that might be something close to 160 of the $0.25 Spins a Bronze Star would have to play, depending on what the rake and vpps will be for them when they're introduced?

Strange the rewards are still so poor for the lowest tier ...
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Old 11-03-2015, 12:36 AM   #509
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

From youtube chat on JI1 podcast.

Daniel Negreanu I'm on calls all day. Working on this ****
Daniel Negreanu This is a major issue for me, the biggest and most important since I joined PokerStars
Daniel Negreanu Give me a few days to figure all this out and I will post a blog and I can only promise you that I won't breach my integrity one bit
Daniel Negreanu I am officially stressed about it and have some really big decisions to make.
Daniel Negreanu I reject that fully. I will not breach my integrity for any amount of money.
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Old 11-03-2015, 12:40 AM   #510
pg_780
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Quote:
Originally Posted by blopp View Post
From youtube chat on JI1 podcast.

Daniel Negreanu I'm on calls all day. Working on this ****
Daniel Negreanu This is a major issue for me, the biggest and most important since I joined PokerStars
Daniel Negreanu Give me a few days to figure all this out and I will post a blog and I can only promise you that I won't breach my integrity one bit
Daniel Negreanu I am officially stressed about it and have some really big decisions to make.
Daniel Negreanu I reject that fully. I will not breach my integrity for any amount of money.
Save us Kid Poker! You can do it!
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Old 11-03-2015, 12:41 AM   #511
omnishakira
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Will even the shill of all shills disagree

what a time to be alive
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Old 11-03-2015, 12:46 AM   #512
Mindead
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

They are killing the dream, is just committing suicide. If I were SNE I will talk about fraud too, they should give SN and SNE one year to collect the fruits of their efforts, maybe there is a legal way to do that? I don't know...

As a microlimit player, the only change I will have is getting tougher opponents on my tables, I don't know how that could help me...
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:03 AM   #513
SANTACE
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

http://i.imgur.com/mK5wQL6.png
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:28 AM   #514
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Thumbs up Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Really interested in watching Jason Somerville stream and talking about this because he always seems to be a straight shooter even if it's against Stars.
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:34 AM   #515
Cog Dissonance
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansky View Post
If they were altering the rewards in some meaningful way to recreational players, I think there wouldn't be so much outrage. Any attempt to portray this as such a shift is either dishonest or ignorant.
This.

I honestly don't mind Stars taking, as long as they give some back to help the poker economy grow and the games remain sustainable.

What they've announced so far is all take and no give.
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:36 AM   #516
MILLIONAIRE77
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Somerville, D-Negs, Joe Ingram or any other respectable person with a voice and platform to be heard on make the voices of the people heard!
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:56 AM   #517
aoFrantic
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Ansky and a few others have had good posts here. The fact is that online poker as we used to play it, is dead. This is the final nail in the coffin of those days. Online poker is not dead, but with these changes Stars is trying to steer it into the direction they want. The days of mass multi tabling with software and living off reward programs are over. Some are rejoicing over this, but the alternative will clearly be worse for nearly every poker player. There will be millions of dollars taken out of the cash games through this.

I don't actually believe they are outright lying when they say 98% of players will benefit from these changes. They are being dishonest by how they will benefit however. These changes basically kill breakeven grinders who mass multi table as well as the games at 5/10 and 10/20. Stars doesn't want these players on their sites. They (along with the more than breakeven grinders/high volume players in general) win the vast majority of the money. Other sites have banned winning players. Stars will just stop nearly every extra incentive they had to play as that is a much better PR move.

So when stars is saying that 98% of people will have it better after these changes, they mean that losing players will not lose as quickly. They do not mean that your average player who plays once a week will get more rewards, they mean that they intend to make it harder for the pros to get his money.

I'm not aware of all sites, but I imagine there are no sites with at least medium sized traffic that do not have casino/sports betting options. Stars and FTP were the last hold outs here I believe (correct me if I'm wrong, obv). Now with DFS available, it wouldn't surprise me to see a site with DFS/Sports betting/casino games/poker soon. Once you open the door and offer other games with higher margins that get the site money quicker, poker is going to lose focus. We've seen it at stars with spin & gos and their other offerings. Traditional poker is not the focus.

At micro stakes, most games are near unbeatable due to rake. High stakes will not offer any rakeback. Mid stakes will offer much less rakeback. Players will definitely have to move down or re work their game, but the end result is less people playing cash. This means more people playing sit and gos or tournaments or other games Amaya would prefer that players partake in. Stars wants to neuter cash games. It will work, and it's a sad day because of it.
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:04 AM   #518
MILLIONAIRE77
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Pokerstars employees please watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntncu_LfT3g

This is what you are doing to a customer of over a decade.
You have pushed him to a point of anger and rage due to your complete ignorance about the effect your money grabbing changes are making on the poker community.

Your changes dont just effect the high stakes regs but it will have a knock on effect to the mid stakes games and even the low and micro stakes!

Pokerstars, every decision you make effects millions of people not just rake back grinders or high stakes regs but it will effect anyone who has ever played a hand of poker.

"Pokerstars has killed the poker dream"
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:09 AM   #519
.isolated
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

That's a great interview with Ansky. Thanks for speaking up, Dani.
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:12 AM   #520
AuroraCee
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Somerville is the biggest corporate shill just look at his twitch page , from dfs to brick n mortar Casinos so he will likely side with Baazov / Jamiestaples is just worried about his own interest which includes continuing to employ a PA / content developers for him to say anything that goes against poker stars ... This leaves Danny as our only hope !!!! VAMOS danny negs , you are the face of pokerstars and you are one of high moral fibre .
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:19 AM   #521
Sect7G
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic View Post
Ansky and a few others have had good posts here. The fact is that online poker as we used to play it, is dead. This is the final nail in the coffin of those days. Online poker is not dead, but with these changes Stars is trying to steer it into the direction they want. The days of mass multi tabling with software and living off reward programs are over. Some are rejoicing over this, but the alternative will clearly be worse for nearly every poker player. There will be millions of dollars taken out of the cash games through this.

I don't actually believe they are outright lying when they say 98% of players will benefit from these changes. They are being dishonest by how they will benefit however. These changes basically kill breakeven grinders who mass multi table as well as the games at 5/10 and 10/20. Stars doesn't want these players on their sites. They (along with the more than breakeven grinders/high volume players in general) win the vast majority of the money. Other sites have banned winning players. Stars will just stop nearly every extra incentive they had to play as that is a much better PR move.

So when stars is saying that 98% of people will have it better after these changes, they mean that losing players will not lose as quickly. They do not mean that your average player who plays once a week will get more rewards, they mean that they intend to make it harder for the pros to get his money.

I'm not aware of all sites, but I imagine there are no sites with at least medium sized traffic that do not have casino/sports betting options. Stars and FTP were the last hold outs here I believe (correct me if I'm wrong, obv). Now with DFS available, it wouldn't surprise me to see a site with DFS/Sports betting/casino games/poker soon. Once you open the door and offer other games with higher margins that get the site money quicker, poker is going to lose focus. We've seen it at stars with spin & gos and their other offerings. Traditional poker is not the focus.

At micro stakes, most games are near unbeatable due to rake. High stakes will not offer any rakeback. Mid stakes will offer much less rakeback. Players will definitely have to move down or re work their game, but the end result is less people playing cash. This means more people playing sit and gos or tournaments or other games Amaya would prefer that players partake in. Stars wants to neuter cash games. It will work, and it's a sad day because of it.
Sadly this is the truth.

But you forgot e-sports as a method
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:25 AM   #522
lenC
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

I am not a lawyer but I think SNEs should revisit TOS and consult some smart people, the changes for 2016 might actually be illegal. It's essentially buy one-get one free, it wouldn't fly anywhere if the 'one free' is broken. The fact that it was upped to 45% after the Russian leak is an argument for this, why would they suddenly be so generous if it's all about dem financials.

The no rakeback from 5/10 also leads me to believe these changes are engineered by people who have never seen a hand of poker be played but are experts in reading dem financials. If you want to reduce rakeback at certain limits then you should do a slow linear progression. Building a wall at a certain limit is about the last thing you should do unless your aim is to kill off cash games.

And the saddest part is presenting the changes as if they were something positive, it really makes me cringe. If Amaya gave it to us straight then I'd at least have some respect on a personal level but this weaseling is such a sad sight to witness.
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:30 AM   #523
gavz101
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

Very informative, concise information from Ansky in that podcast without focusing too much on the emotional aspects. I think it exposes the key concerns about the knock-on effects these changes will have on the poker economy and a great deal of the fallacious arguments being presented.

Blopp and MeleaB's posts also contain a lot of great stuff. They expose a great deal of Amaya's outlandish and blatantly disrespectful treatment of its' highest-paying customers. Thanks for taking the time to respond here.
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:30 AM   #524
Deuce2High
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

+1 to what Ansky and others are saying.

Increasing rake for top players will do next to nothing for the poker economy or for losing players. It's just more money in Amaya's pockets. They could have made similar changes, like Ansky said, that could have had a positive effect on the poker ecosystem. But, like Galfond said, they are pulling a take from the rich and give to the poor, without actually giving anything to the poor.

Amaya is turning PokerStars into a giant casino.
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:31 AM   #525
The Nemesis
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Re: 2016 PokerStars VIP Club

i use to recommend stars to my friends...
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