SN and SNE players getting their yearly RB paid in StarCoins in 2016 be like..

Full Disclosure: 95% of my rake contributed on Stars is from high stakes cash games. I was SNE last year, I am not this year. I expect these changes to affect my bottom line by around ~50k USD next year.

SNE changes

Last year when Stars increased the rake, I didn’t speak up at all. I thought the changes, while seemingly random and unexplainable, were not exactly disgraceful. It was simply a price change from the industry leader, one which justifiably caused outrage by their customer base. This new announcement however, has crossed the line into outright deception, and as far as I can tell is extremely unethical. The VIP program is not simply an annual program, which restarts at the end of every year. It’s actually a two year program, where you carry over your VIP status that you achieve on year one, over to year two. A huge percentage of the value in achieving SNE is that you maintain the SNE FPP multiplier for year two, and you can maintain it for the entire year even if you aren’t going to reach SNE status again. PokerStars is surely very aware that players have been grinding hard all year with the expectation that they would be able to maintain their SNE status until the end of next year. Making this announcement in November is truly an outrage. If that wasn't enough, they weren't even planning on announcing it yet! It leaked and they rushed the announcement.

For the record, I am aware that Stars announced that there would be changes to the 2016 VIP program. Simply saying that months ago while tacitly watching all the SNE players grind away does not give them carte blanche to royally screw their most loyal customers. Regardless of your position on the current climate of SNE super grinders, you have to acknowledge that PokerStars had an agreement with them, which they are now breaking. This is completely outrageous from the biggest poker site in the world. For the entire year, this graphic was displayed explaining what SNE gives you (and it’s still there for the record).


This is a lie.

Lower tier changes

I think I have covered the most unforgivable element to this mess, but unfortunately it doesn’t end there. The deception continues quite dramatically. PokerStars language in their announcement attempts to portray this as a change which will redistribute the rewards from the ultra grinders, to the more recreational players. I think that is a fine goal to have, and I would have no problem with efforts to do that. Unfortunately, this does literally nothing of the sort.

The only players who will see an increase in rakeback, are ChromeStar players. How much rakeback? Roughly 30 cents. Yes, you read that correctly, their rakeback will go up by up to 30 cents per month. Anyone playing small enough stakes to where this 30 cents matters to them is already playing in a game that is raked so high by stars that it is literally unbeatable (>15bb/100 rake is common at micros).

It should also be clear how low of a volume ChromeStar is. Not only do you have be an amateur, you have to be an amateur who virtually never plays, or plays extremely micro stakes. Playing one 50 dollar tournament every week will get you ChromeStar.

So how then could this possibly bring a positive effect to the current games? One possible change would be the massive decrease in volume of the SNE players. Guys who do things like play 100k-200k hands a month of low-mid stakes cash games, or thousands of sit and gos, will be forced to decrease their volume massively. While these players certainly prefer playing with amateurs, they spend a lot of their volume right now “battling for lobbies,” or playing zoom cash games to maintain volume. I don’t see how this will improve the playing experience for the amateur player. Whenever they sit at a cash table or SNG lobby, it will fill up with pros regardless of the new and enhanced VIP structure. The only thing being cut in this equation is the incentives for regs to play against each other. And to be clear, amateurs are going to be getting significantly less rewards in the new model. I know of multiple non pros who are Supernova, and even of one who is SNE. What about the PlatinumStars? Surely anyone who can’t even reach 100k VPPs on the year is an amateur right? They must be rewarding PlatinumStars with some increased bonuses right?

Apparently not.

High stakes

This is the part that affects me the most. I don’t expect most people out there to care about this as much as the rest, but I’d like to discuss it mostly to decipher what Stars is saying, and what they are actually doing. Their explanation for cutting ALL rakeback for high stakes is:


Apparently there is no explanation at all. In the initial Russian translated version they indicated that there was a high cost of transaction at high stakes and they were thus compensating for it. I’d really love to know what that means, or if they are even going with that as an explanation anymore. For a high volume SNE player at high stakes, this is a seventy percent decrease in rakeback (~120k USD). For medium volume grinders at high stakes it’s anywhere from 30-50%. Whether Stars wants to accept it or not, the fact is high stakes players do an enormous amount of free marketing for them. Isildur has poker fans literally salivating on the screen watching high stakes games. Successful pros post graphs, videos, and Twitch streams, inspiring lower stakes players and amateurs to play more poker. PokerStars has essentially told us: You were valued, you are now a cancer to our site.

FPP devaluation
Despite all of what I’ve written, if there were any doubt left that this was something other than a complete revenue grab, that this wasn’t exclusively about increasing PokerStars margins, there is the FPP devaluation. Starting on Jan 1st, 2016, PokerStars is converting all FPPs to StarsCoins, and devaluing them by 25%. I’m actually shocked that their marketing and PR team didn’t care to alter this. What could devaluing FPPs possibly do to improve the quality of the gaming experience?

I was curious if I could figure out how much FPP “debt” PokerStars is currently holding (calling it that since it’s essentially an amount owed to it’s players, for an unknown future payment). I found this document from Amayas published financials: http://www.amaya.com/wp-content/uplo...5-FS-FINAL.pdf. There is a section in which the FPP liabilities are outlined:

Who knows how much of those FPPs balances are sitting in dormant accounts, or in accounts of players who don’t follow the daily happenings in the poker world? I won’t begin to speculate on what percentage of that 105mm in FPP liability Amaya expects to recoup by this devaluation. Players have two months to cash out their FPPs, I wonder how hard they will try to contact players with outstanding balances before they rob them of 25% of their hard earned rakeback. And what about players who had long term FPP goals? To buy a PCA package, or any number of smaller and attainable goals? Nope, screw them and their attempt at a reasonable goal.

On a personal note, I have always loved PokerStars as a company, and as a product. In the early years of online poker, way before they were industry leader, I loved the way the company was managed. Customer service, and an honest and open dialogue with the players were essential components to their business. It is why they thrived. Those days are long gone. To be clear, I am a capitalist, and I don't have a romantic view of what is a decidedly unromantic industry. I understand that PokerStars is a business operating in a mostly unregulated marketplace, my feelings are not hurt. But I am not about to get punched in the face and respond “well thats your right sir,” and neither should any of you.

"Today, we want to make clear that the line will be drawn to preserve poker as a battle of wits and a test of heart. This will only have a direct effect on a small proportion of players and builds upon our responsibility to provide a level playing field for all players."

if taking away some tools that only give stats of what you can figure out by watching the table anyway will "level" the playing field? what happens to the players that are still on top? one hole card stays hidden? they start with half a stack instead of a full stack? they are banned totally from poker? its all about making that playing field level yo

this is a really bad idea. there's an easy solution for this and u wont like it anymore then the vip changes. i dont even like hinting at the possibility

Thx for speaking up, I've always liked ur DC videos

Basically my thoughts on the matter. Great post! I'll add a few words. There is something to be done against a monopoly. A monopoly is governed by profits. If this change causes a big enough exodus from pokerstars, which in turn creates a loss of revenue big enough to upset the increase in revenue from the change, then they would reverse or revise their strategy.

Whether that will be the case - that depends on multiple factors. How many recreationals will move. How many losing regs. How big of an effect will the missing regs have on the rake generated. And so on.

We the players do have power, but whether we use it is another matter.

Negreanu seems to be under the impression that Stars are "eliminating huds" in the near future (from his Twitter). If they've already made that decision it's a bit unethical not to announce it immediately, will be plenty of new players buying HM2/PT4 only getting a couple of months of use.

Also just read the corporate blog post in full. The standalone app is likely to be a Spin and Go app, a nice way to ensure those players don't find their way into cash games and keep buying lottery tickets. It's quite worrying at this point to contemplate what the "bold take on poker" will be. I had a couple of lines speculating but don't really want to give them any ideas!

Great post Dani

PS: Disgusting changes and basically outright theft it seems. I'm sure you have some small print to cover it though. Sad

BIG FAT LOL

They bought a $4 BILLION (!!!) company with what- a 45% profit margin!? And they want to turn it into a $50 million company with a 55% profit margin.

RIP Massive Industry Leader & hello one more crappy/ shady poker site.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Now time for HU regs to post:

HAHA.
ALL YOU GRINDERS SHOULD SUFFER, YOU DESTROY THE GAME. YOU PLAY ROBOT STYLE, DONT TALK TO RECS, MAKE THEM FEEL LIKE PLAYING WITH BOTS, NOT GIVING THEM FUN, BERATING THEM.

U DESERVE TO HAVE YOUR MONEY TAKEN, YOU JUST CLICK BUTTONS FAST SO THAT YOU MAKE MORE RAKE.


Hope that helps for your perspective.

The VPP rate used to be 6 in FR, will now be also 5.5. Presumably, it's for the sake of unification of rules ('making the VIP program more understandable by a new player'); and also, FR was set to die anyway because the promotional focus is now generally on fast and loose action.

But at least grinders don't berate or talk trash, you know

Their experiences won't be bad because 1) they'll still get some gamble, except that it will be in high blinds, 2) their ITMs will jump up to 33%, 3) they'll occasionally pick up the blinds by just limping. It goes without saying that non-compliant regs will also get value from the occasional sitouts.

Besides, this strategy of a strike against rake that involves paying more rake than usual for at best the same expected profit in chips is, erm, paradoxical.

And thank you for steering Spin & Go recreationals to other sites with jackpots where regs don't stall intentionally and I can have the said recs for dinner.

Great post !

An old saying but a lot of truth to it when it relates to online poker.

In general poker players (and even the smart ones on 2+2) often won't stand up and complain unless the change affects their immediate bottom line. Often times they even are happy that a fellow player takes a hit in the vague hope that their game will somehow prosper. At this point I think everyone has taken a hit.

The biggest hit though was self induced. Once operators realize that players won't unite and will just go along with the negative changes what incentive do they have to not go for more?

Players are so short sighted and so intent on salvaging a few pennies of EV that we've collectively done ourselves in. Look at all the people who feel they have a right to use a HUD/Script and get 70% rb? Where are they now... down to 28% rb and soon won't even have a script. Couldn't we as a community have been willing to concede certain things to keep the dream of playing online poker for a living a few more years?

BTW I should add that I have the solution that would drive back a decent portion of these changes but I can't justify using it as it's dirty and would hurt rec players as well.

does anybody know if the amaya deal prohibits isai from starting/buying a rival company?

just curious...

you want to give them a valid reason to take a fee for dep/wd like party started to do?

saw this coming....the writing was on the wall ever since amaya bought stars. Anybody still happy about Stars coming to New Jersey?

for the love of god i hope caesars doesnt sell WSOP or team up with these bastards here in the US

#GreenSunday #FML #ISAIWEMISSYOU

i wonder what mr scheinberg thinks about all this

Michael Scott: Here's the thing about those discount suppliers. They don't care. They come in, they undercut everything, and they run us out of business, and then, once we're all gone, they jack up the prices.

+1

this perfectly nails it ... how stupid some ppl are.

Millions died and suffered under the Nazi regime, comparing the holocaust with the announced vip changes is such a huge fail and shows perfectly, how ppl overestimated themselves.

do yourself a favour and visit a holocaust survivor, look into his/her eyes and tell them about your 'tragedy' ... seriously, you should be ashamed to use such a comparison.

Ah these changes. Ah the sinking tarded monopoly.

I know its in the interest of amaya for most high volume regs to stop playing (at this point 200k+ player is pretty much any low stakes reg tbh), otherwise they wouldn`t have done these changes (meleab explained things well with his graphs post).

Still, it seems that Stars will have to now be a site from which u add few tables (w recs) to ur daily grind (read as bumhunting site, and lol ive never in my life was a bumhunter), not the main volume focus.

`AmayaStars - a new site where u hunt fish down quickly, and close ur tables quickly`.

I hope 888/party etc will make the most of this mess and come up with reasonable business plan w rewards systems and marketing, traffic increase, such that most 2% stars guys can make a switch to any non-pokerstars site.
The explanations about `better future poker economy` and 2% etc etc is beyond insane bs.

What we need to do here, i totally agree with ansky`s post (always had high respect for him btw), is not be like `okay sir, u can have my money, im sorry about any inconvenience` but make everything in our ability to revert these upcoming changes back, or, if unsuccessful, simply switch our focus (obv in our own best $ interests) and allow other companies to earn more.

R.I.P pokerstars

In the first six months of the year they earned 98 million (excluding Amortization of intangible assets which is a non-cash item) on revenue of 657 million.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...521727711.html

U market zoom (lower wr game format where a lot of ur earnings come from rakeback which u now murder),

You come up with spins (not gonna even start here, we all know what a money grab this is by now),

You increase the rake,

And now u murder VIP (rakeback) program.

You know what any loyal customer has to say here? **** you, and ur business. Just get lost.