Hello. My nickname at Poker Stars is angryogr1. I’ve been playing poker online since 2010. I play 2k nl+ at most of poker sites. At GG (site PokerOK) I played under nickname STINKYBLUFFF.
On 12th of February I got the following warning, accusing me in bumhuntning.





As I heard some stories about GG banning and confiscating money for stuff like that I decided to cashout all my bankroll from there. It was nearly 150k. I asked my affiliate to do so. I didn’t want to play there having a warning and risking my money.
So as several days passed, I thought my money were coming and decided to create another account at GG (site GGPoker) from Bryn Kenney as an affiliate.
I deposited 120k there and didn’t play a single hand there while the next day I discovered that all my money is frozen and my accounts are blocked with the following message.



Till 19th of February I had no response from GG. So my Russian affiliate advised me to send an e-mail to GG security team. I did. Still got no answer.
Then on 4th of March I sent an e-mail to GG support team.
Finally, I got this message from them:
“Your account has been blocked for violation of network rules, funds have been confiscated.”

On 9th of March Bryn Kenney sent me my deposit in btc back. But due to btc exchange rate going down I lost 30k. So only 150k left stuck at PokerOk.

Then on 13th of March I asked them to let me know which particular item of rules I violated and also asked to point me to the rules paragraph saying that whole balance of the account should be confiscated in this case.

They didn’t answer.

On 16th I reminded them about my request. Still no answer.

I will appreciate any good advice or comment.

Try tweeting at Negreanu. He is the face of GGPoker, and while PokerOK is a different skin, he may still have some pull because it's their network.

Very surprising that you would have put 120k onto GGPoker after another site on the network hadn't sent your $150k yet. You've been around online poker 10 years and believe the "check is in the mail" story? You should have known better. But at least you got that 120k back, bitcoin crash aside.

If Negreanu doesn't respond, see if you can get Bryn Kenney to help you, since he used his pull to get you back the 120k.

If you really pulled out your money after the warning and didn't bumhunt further, they really have no justification to keep it.

BTW, that policy sucks. I understand what they're trying to do, and I can even understand banning (but still paying) users who violate it. However, it's a slippery slope to where that becomes a money-confiscating offense, because bumhunting is a subjective mesaure.

Are you not supposed to sit when you see a fish sitting? There's too many ways they can claim "bumhunting" as justification to steal people's money.

Not positive, but they may have thought you were opening a new account to do exactly what they thought your first account was doing.

They might be different skins, but they all use GG Poker software/console. If you open an account on a different skin and do not completely uninstall the software and reinstall it, they know it's the same computer.

In their eyes it might have appeared that you knew that you were caught and decided to open a brand new account to try and go undetected.

In some ways, GG security is very very on top of their game. Your best bet is to probably write a sincere email, explain everything out truthfully, and hope for the best.

Agree with your point. Yes, I had convesation via e-mail with support. I sent some e-mails with explanation of my reasons. But as I wrote above as a result I had a message saying I'm blocked for violating network rules and funds confiscated.

At that moment I didn't know how many warnings for bumhunting I could receive and which would be the last. At the same time there are not so many Poker sites where you could find highstackes action, so I wanted to keep playing there. I wasn'r going to act as a sneaky bumhunter at a new account. Opposite I was going to follow their rules (some of which are absurd in nowdays online poker) and trying no to catch another warning.

Yes, I know I did an unbelievable stupid thing that I didn't wait to have the money on my e-wallet before making a new deposit.
First, I didn't expect my two accounts to be the same deal.
Secondly, I didn't think I was doing something terrible, because I was't planning to violate rules again and again, I just wanted my money to be in safe place.
In my world if GG discovered I was doing something illegal they say, please don't open new account, play at previous one instead of banning and confiscating whole balance.

Answering to your comment: my affilate told me that GG manager told him that he put the money on cashout in one big transaction.

Your intent and their perception may not be anywhere close to each other. I can make an account for you with every different email address you provide. As an agent, I have that ability. When you open your console, they will know if there is a separate/new/different account using it.

My guess is that since they were currently looking into your account, this action triggered their response. Your intent, admittedly so, was to continue to play and not risk having the account shut and funds seized. Whether that is good or bad intent, it will pretty much confirm their internal view that you were taking advantage of some aspect of the game or T&C.

Open communication is the way to go here. They may send you back your money and ban you from playing again. There really is no way to know.

Yeah, "a dewd" is probably correct.

Looks like this guy got a warning for bumhunting, started a cashout because he was no longer interested in playing there at that point (and maybe afraid they'd confiscate his funds soon), and then he got the idea to start a new account on the main GG skin to see if he'd get the same warning there.

So it was pretty much, "I can't bumhunt on PokerOK, but let's see if they let me do it on GG."

What he didn't expect was that they would end up holding up his cashout because of this, AND seized his deposited funds at GG (which he got back).

With that said, if the worst he did was bumhunt BEFORE a warning, then he should get the money he was cashing out, regardless of his actions of trying to load money onto a second skin after the warning.

If the worst he did was bum hunt he should get his money back period regardless of their policy. Confiscating funds is not ok here and should only be used in cases of fraud or cheating against the casino or players.

You online players will really put up with some ****. Imagine this happening in a live casino and how well that would fly.

"As I heard some stories about GG banning and confiscating money for stuff like that I decided to cashout all my bankroll from there. It was nearly 150k. I asked my affiliate to do so. I didn’t want to play there having a warning and risking my money.
So as several days passed, I thought my money were coming and decided to create another account at GG (site GGPoker) from Bryn Kenney as an affiliate.
I deposited 120k there and didn’t play a single hand there while the next day I discovered that all my money is frozen and my accounts are blocked with the following message."


LMAO why would u multi-account

Pretty much this.

But very dumb to try to bumhunt on another account, which you were obviously trying to do.

Confused as to the decision making that went from:

[x] OP under investigation from no-name site
[x] OP aware of people being banned for the sort of stuff he's alleged to have done

to:

[ ] OP doesn't deposit a single penny more and waits for resolution, playing elsewhere if he needs his fix
[x] OP then multi-accounts and deposits another six figures

Your points sound reasonable. I started this thread for open communication indeed. Unfortunately support stopped responding to my e-mails so a forum seems to be the only way left.

I suppose receiving a warning for bumhunting is not equal being under investigation. I could keep playing at PokerOk, my account wasn't suspended or banned.
People I know were banned not after a single warning.

I wrote above, but repeat it again. Yes it was my stupid move I didnt wait for getting my money withdrawn. But I didnt think I was doing something terrible. In fact having accounts at different sites inside one network is fine. Everybody does it at GG and for example at WPN.

Did you use exactly the same information to open the two accounts on the different skins? You didn't alter anything at all about your name, address, or e-mail address, so they might think you were trying to look like a different person, even if you didn't mean it that way?

I didn't fill any information at new account, as I didnt start playing there. Probably I had to, before making a deposit.
I wasn't going to hide my identity. Otherwise I could use other internet provider, PC, or reinstall OS. I was aware they could see my other account. But I didnt expect that would be taken as a crime.

forgot that I used other e-mail. But I wouldn't be able to register a new account with the old one

You deposited 120k without filling any info?

the brynn accounts are prob safe, 1st account was only thing at risk imo

gl, in my limited experience with it GG was pretty stubborn with the bumhunting clause but i hope you get it back

These two stories completely contradict one another.

I have a feeling you're not being completely honest with us.

Look, I'd like to help you, and it's possible they are acting unethically, but you have to be up front and honest about everything or otherwise this isn't going to go anywhere.

Well... if they issued you a warning and you tried to evade by making a new account, they are right.

Maybe you should have asked them to transfer that warning to the new account.

Thought I'd jump in here, as the responses so far are appalling.

To preface, I don't know angryogr1 at all, aside from playing in some of the same games on pokerstars over the years.


Whether he is foolish or not is irrelevant.

The amount in question here is also not relevant to the decision. GG offers very high stakes. What is a huge amount of money to you, is not necessarily to everyone, especially not a 10+ year HSNL regular looking to play 10/20-200/400.

Having multiple accounts on GGnetwork is allowed, and suspicious timing is not a reason to confiscate funds.

If they are only accusing him of bum hunting, and do in fact end up keeping the funds, that would be theft.

GGpoker holds a UK license, which I can't imagine would allow them to act this way.

Hopefully this gets resolved promptly, or more clarity is provided with regards to what they suspect/are accusing him of to justify delaying payment or seizing funds.

I'm not defending GGnetwork. As I said, they might be acting unethically here, and if they are, I'd love to know that.

However, this guy is also contradicting himself and doesn't seem to be telling the truth.

I really wish he'd just come clean and explain what is really going on, even if it's a bit unflattering to him.

Disclaimer: I am not familiar with the OP, but I have played with him on multiple sites. AFAIK, the OP reputation is clear.

The story doesn't contradict itself. I see at least two possible scenarios, when OP says he made a 120k deposit.

1. He did actually made the deposit in BTC via the cashier. You don't have to verify any info prior to depositing on GG, as well as on some other pokerrooms (they just don't let you cashing out without confirming that).
2. He made the deposit via Bryn and let Bryn handle the rest. It is a common practice for some of the agents on some sites.

Anyway, when the ban happened, the BTC for the deposit were returned to the OP. The BTC rate, however, was lower and thus the OP lost some USD value. But I am 99% sure that if the rate was higher, the OP would have received the same amount of BTC, meaning his risks were the same as if he bought the BTC for hodling.

As for bumhunting warning, a lot of the HS GG regulars have at least one. I believe one can get two warnings without being asked to stop playing on GG. To be fair, almost every reg there is bumhunting, depending on the definition of bumhuntning (just so you know, total rake in a regwar would be around 20-30bb/100 per table; no one loses that much in a 3-4 handed reg game, at least on one who's willing to play regwar games). There is no clear definition of "bumhunting" in their T&C, only GG's security team decides if you are a bumhunter or not.

What's more, if you don't table select at the highest stakes (not talking about low/medium stakes, as I have no info on how soft the filed is there), you will never beat the absurdly high rake and their vague RB system, where a pro player can get maximum ~20% of their paid rake back. It is actually profitable for GGpoker to stake some of the PokerStars semi-recreational players, because they will lose less than the rake generated by the table.

This is not true. Players can get up to 70% RB total between Fish Buffet (GGNet's RB system) and kickbacks from affiliates.

Regarding bumhunting, as far as I know, GGNet always sends a warning. Problem is they are not super specific on what the user has done wrong.

That is not true Players can get up to 70% of their PVI rake, which is always lower than their paid rake.

For instance, there is a pro player X, who paid $10k in rake (meaning he would've won $10k more if the games were unraked). But he's a pro, so his PVI (Player Value Index) is only 0.3. That means that he would get only 300k Fish Points (as if he generated 3k in rake). Say, he gets 70% of that back ($2100).
He looks at his Fish Points and thinks "Wow, I have a 70% rakeback, what a deal". When in reality he only gets 21% back.

I don't have the exact stats for NL, but I believe the PVI for a winning player would be around 0.2-0.4

There is no such thing as a "true 70% RB" for a good NLHE cash player. Not sure how the PVI works for PLO and 6+ though.

Hello. I and GG came to the agreement. I promised not to disclose its details.
I'd like to thank all posters, for their attention and encouragement.

Moderators, close the thread pls.