As if there aren't a million other ways that people can collude online. This is noise.

I LOLed

Juk

It could turn a losing player into a winning player, it depends on how much he's losing by. If he's losing by only -1bb/100, it may make him a winner.

Right now the highest stakes are $0.50/$1.00 so it's unlikely someone is using this exploit. But if they make high stakes available then it's likely someone creates it. There would also be fewer people on the higher stakes Zoom tables making the exploit more effective.

I really do think it would be a fairly decent advantage. Let's suppose you had perfect knowledge of whenever anyone Fast Folds. You'd have a huge, soul crushing advantage. Your ability to play in multi-way posts post flop would be unrivaled. On the river villian bets all in into you and another player. All you have is a weak pair but you're certain he's bluffing. But you're worried about the player behind you who you think has you beat -- until the exploitative software HUD pops up "Folded" over his cards, letting you know he clicked Fast Fold. You can now call villain and take down a huge pot that you would not have won otherwise. As you can see, it would help much more than just with blind steals.

Now of course it won't be able to predict 100% of when someone fast folds. Even if it was only 10% it would still be very effective.

Wouldn't guessing be more effective than 10%?

he means 10% of the time you would know 100% that someone has fast folded and the rest you don't know.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Why exactly do you think the zoom tables play much faster than normal tables?
loooooooooooooooool

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Haven't you realized that the Zoom tables would still play much faster than normal tables because as soon as you fold you're dealt a new hand? loooooooooooooooool

Just off the top of my head:

Its much more complicated than just acquiring a player pool. If you have a pool of 50 players who are all waiting to see who on their tables have fast folded before deciding what to do then none of them are on other tables to observe whether people have fast folded in the first place. That is to say that unless some of the people running this software are playing normally and using fast fold to act as 'scouters,' the software itself is useless. The edge acheived by this can only be utilised by a given percentage of the player pool (the exact percentage would depend on the number you have in your pool).

So its a small edge, that cant even be used by the full number of people running the software, that results in a tiny tiny positive knowledge (I think tanking then m/r every hand would be a somewhat good approximation of the edge you gain) and comes with huge downsides (confiscation of roll, cheating in a large group with people you can not possibly trust fully).

Making and using something like this isnt +EV.

Don't you realise Rush had all these problems and it seemed to be okay.

I agree on high stakes it could become a bigger problem, but rush/zoom works best with the large player pools.

At higher stakes the smaller pool will probably make it more obvious if you are attempting to do this.

I've been away for awhile.... Internet Poker is the new NVG I guess?

It is great to see how you defend the thread you created, just kinda interesting to see how you treat criticism at the same time.

making it that much ****ing easier for stars to spot.

also making it that much ****ing easier for any grinder who's not a moron to see that some players are opening 30% utg. geeeee, i wonder if that's exploitable.

end thread

wow

open fold 7s because you have three people who didn't quickfold yet, but are probably waiting for you to open so they can fold their garbage

I decided to communicate with him on a level that he would understand.

NiSash1337 is right. I haven't yet talked about the advantage gained by being able to fold medium strength hands. If the players ahead of you did not Fast Fold it implies they're going to either at least call or raise the bet before you meaning they have a decent hand or better.

or they play stacked and never use fast fold -- personally there is no way I can tile four Zoom (or Rush back in the day) tables. I cascade them and never use the fast fold. Still playing 1000+ hands per hour.

There will be a critical number of players needed before the software would become advantageous. I don't know the exact numbers, but it would be proportional to players/(table size). My guess is that it would be between players/(table size) and players/(table size)/2. On the $0.5/$1 Zoom table, there are 446 players at the 9 man tables, so you'd need between 25 and 50 players using it. But that assumes they have the average number of tables open. If they all opened 4 tables (as they should do), that number could be greatly reduced depending on the number of tables an average player has open. Maybe even get it down to 13 players needed. This is just guesswork though.

What a brilliant non sense conclusion. So just because they didn't fast fold, they can not fold "slow" and must have a decent hand? Can't wait for your program if its as clever as your logic.

Well, the program would display the probability that a player is going to fast fold. A low probability of Fast Folding doesn't mean they won't call. But it's certainly evidence towards it.

Some players never fast fold, so using this against those players won't benefit you. It would actually hurt you. However, I don't think I'm wrong to think that the vast majority of players use the Fast Fold button, making it overall EV+ to think it's more likely they'll call according to the probability they Fast Folded.

Basically, let's say that when a player has the opportunity to Fast Fold, he uses it 50% of the time and opts to use normal fold the other 50%. If you were told he did not Fast fold, the chance that he will eventually fold his cards drops by 50%. Do you dispute this?

Dude ... you need a hobby

Cant believe just read those 7 page must have alot of time to loose wow, anyway who the hell care about fast fold crap gonna change something for your winrate that someone know if you fast fold or no, good for the guy who know the future hell have maybye a smallllllllll extra edge and will still get **** in longrun because cheater suck at poker so yea watever stop go crazy about a maybye crazy monkey from another planet who MAYBYE 1 day gonna know if you folded or no jezzzz

7 pages? You're doing it wrong.

LOL, in a painful way.

also:
this

I get it, for bad players it doesnt matter because they wouldnt know what to do with this knowledge and most use HM/PT already that gives them some advantage but even that doesnt help.

For the others that likes to have an edge this could be big because on the phone and tablet chances those are multitabling are small(er)

just as a late update.. fast fold is confirmed exploitable:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...4&postcount=21