Dang, we have riggies, complainers of RNg, etc, no one gets banned (well, unless you spam everyone's pm with beg for money).

Even complaints about collusion and possible bots.

hello,

Well i did 3 or 4 post in the bot's report section, thats all what i did on that forum.
Sent email with question about ban's reasons, but get no reply so far...

There is a few plo bots that never show up on the beast leaferboard despite high volume... have u seen this with the NL bots? What could possiblly cause this given everyone is entered into the beast

Possible agreement in place between the poker room and group running the bot. Wouldn't surprise me tbh. They leave cash on the table to be allowed to play.

At that point, doesnt it makes sense for wpn to just keep their beast payout?

If you look at some of the mainstream bot sites that sell them (not going to list names obviously) they say to contact them if you're running a site and need help generating traffic. That was rather disturbing to me.

Bot farm uncovered and exposed.

It's been 3 months since Tyler published his post.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...ealed-1772724/

I would like to tell you how the situation developed after that.
First, the accounts exposed by Tyler disappeared from the game. WPN’s representative organized a conference, where we sent him new accounts that were suspected of botting for verification. 52 accounts were sent in total. The WPN representative was provided with tables of stats, from which anyone familiar with poker can clearly say that these are bots. People don't play like that. New accounts continued to play. The WPN representative was clearly playing for time. As I suspect, the conference was created for a completely different purpose, viz. to remove WPN discussions from the public, so that gradually the noise around the room populated by bots will subside.

Around August 16-17, some of the accounts from the Tyler's list started playing again. I wrote in conference “Yesterday I saw several bots from Tayler's list playing on WPN after a month's break”
The manager answered me "But as you might understand we stand a neutral position, while we appreciate your reports and observation we carefully review every single report and give every user a fair investigation and follow a very strict protocol" .
New accounts were not closed, while old ones came out to play more and more. Nowadays, about half of the bots, especially high-limit accounts are back in the game again.

I made two Google-tables. In the first one there are the old accounts that came back to play after passing the WPN "verification".
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

List of nicknames:

CheckRiverPls
HiMomIChampion
shootist
Reptile1
Arachnid
Blankensh
LaLaRa2211
Unassailable1
wielded
QueenofCrime1
drtyprist
Cookiedope8
Cormoran49

The second one contains new accounts, and accounts that Tyler didn't find when he wrote his post.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

List of nicknames:

neophyte31
robinyoutstack
ANN1HILATE
badsoldier
NoNeedToKnowMe
SpringheelJack
RiderofGhost
BigRoosterJrod
Rusty4Orange
RADIAC
djshiggles
G1Gantes
33SKYLARK
disciple8
NEANDERT
Vi1aminN
FAIRY7
PokerMyGun
PappyPoker
BILLYBOBDJOE
THEOTOKOS
OGLYDUNAI
rmnpwr
DOZKI
LEBOVSKIY
DUMBBE11
MALUTASKURATOV
AAWORLDVIEW
JamMonster

From these tables you can see that all the accounts have almost the same stats. Main features of the bot game:

Preflop

1. High % Fold vs 4Bet: 55-75% (some new accounts may have 40+)
2. Extremely high % call from SB vs steal from CO and Button: 7-11% vs CO and 11-15% vs BTN.
(it’s true only for bot ring on WPN, bots with lower% exist in other pokerrooms!)

PostFlop

Very High WWSF 47% +

Flop

1. Low % ReRaise vs Check-Raise Cbet (as a pf raiser IP):
0-2% for small-stakes accounts and up to 6 for new high-stakes ones.

2. Low % Raise Cbet (as caller pf IP):
4-8%, some account can have lower.

3. Flop Cbet sizing:

There are three main types of sizing Cbet IP:





And three main types of sizing Cbet OOP



Bots can combine Flop Cbet sizings IP and OOP in random order.
For example, one bot can have an IP sizing of the first type, and an OOP sizing of the third type, and another bot can have both sizing of the second type, and so on.

Turn

1. High % Turn Bet on a checked flop as a pf raiser IP: 50-60%

2. High % Turn Bet on a checked flop as a pf raiser OOP: 55-65%

3. High % Turn Bet on a checked flop as a pf caller OOP: 47-57%

4. High % Turn Bet on a checked flop as a pf caller IP: 55-65%

River

High % BXB as a pf raiser IP: 45-60%

The whole situation on the WPN can only mean one thing - someone in the room's security is in cahoots with the bot breeders (BotFarm). When indignations and complaints from players begin, this person or a group of people pass information to bot owners, who temporarily disable accounts from the list. For visibility, representatives of the room act, a supposedly working conference is being created.

But some time passes and the BotFarm get a signal to start returning bot accounts to the network.

To make it clearer - accounts with exactly the same statistically existed in different networks. All room's securities receive the information about it. 888's security blocked all bot accounts after receiving lists with statistics and evidence. Chico network having received a list of bots, not only banned these accounts, but also paid compensation to the players.
To date, Chico’s and 888’s rooms simply do not have players with such stats. All new accounts with these stats are banned instantly. Bot owners are forced to change their strategies.

But bots with old stats play in WPN and the WPN’s manager in the conference writes like this “Just a reminder, that as much as we appreciate your leads the outcomes of the investigations will remain undisclosed to third parties”. We completely agree with him, when it comes to accounts with disputed or confused statistics. But when we talk about a group of accounts with identical stats and sizings - what kind of verification is needed for those? These accounts are practically signed like “we are a group of bots”.

Maybe it's time for the WPN’s CEO Phil Nagy to take a closer look to his securityhow Chico did earlier? Current situation in the WPN way over looks like a conspiracy of the security service and the BotFarm. Collusion to getting money from poker players using prohibited technologies.

I am going to monitor the WPN network and once a week I will post here the nicknames of new bot accounts, as well as the nicknames of bots that continue to play.

For example, I’ve just found two new bot accounts:

ivanbayan NL25
DAMSalvatR NL100-200
and two old bots that keep playing:

Meteoroid NL25-50
FatSanta NL400-1000

P.S.
And a few days ago, on the WPN page, where they talk about their successes in the fight against bots, there was a surprising in its essence news. I think many people have already seen it. The room's security service proudly listed the bots' nicknames, published the confiscated amounts and lists of players who received compensation. So, firstly, the bots in this list have not played for 4-6 months (it took a lot of time to prepare such “sensation”). Secondly, the statistics of these bots are identical to those bot accounts that are now widely represented in this room (why these unfortunate accounts are guilty, while the rest are working?). And the third and the wildest - in the list of players who received compensation, I found many bots of the same network, with the same stats (for example: lastresistance, Dijkstra48, toxicdesu, Tsunami8000, alakrity, ayaz,hankmoody84…).. Banned bots, took money from bots and bots were compensated (help bot breeders in redistributing funds + self-promotion?).

can confirm that some of these accounts play blitz200 a lot, I have similar notes on their frequencies. There are a lot more of them, for some reason the amount of bots like trippled within last month. They seem to adjust really slowly (4betting ATC vs them was profitable for a time)

IT used to be just rmnpwr and Lebovskij and that was fine, but lately it feels like I'm playing against 10 cards on some tables at later hours.

Fwiw they are by no means strong players and they are buggy as hell. Still, they visibly play together and I assume they share cards.

Fwiw I'm pretty sure you're missing a lot, but I'd rather not post SNs without proof.

These stats look somewhat similar to what a bunch of accounts (mostly from Russia, Belarus etc.) play on a different site. Just out of curiosity:
- Do they also have quite a low SB RFI?
- Do they often play the same tables and employ colluding to some extent?

what kind of proof would you like? so that they write themselves - Yes, we are bots? I think that the coincidence of such a number of stats is the proof.

Maybe you've seen the thread about the HUSNG bots on WPN, the situation is EXACTLY THE SAME. Players with the exact same tendencies took over the whole lobby for a huge chunk of the day and WPN refuses to do anything about it, nor does it disclose anything about the investigation.
Furthermore, in the new banned list there is only 1 HUSNG player who has been banned in this year, and the majority of the funds from him has been redistributed to other bots.

just out of curiosity - on what site?

Their SB RFI you can see in my first table:




They often play the same tables but I know nothing about colluding.

Can we pm you accounts we suspect? I have a bunch of players colored blue for players I suspect are bots haha. I’m not good at the analysis part but I’m sure ppl could gladly pool names. I’ve played a bunch of hands with 5 of the accounts listed, so I’d imagine I’m entitled to a decent refund.

Yes, I've seen it.
That's why I think it's time to act and reveal the bots on the WPN to everyone.

Sure, I'll be very grateful

thats not what I meant.

I think it's great that OP posted these SNs, backed up with data.

I'm playing on wpn almost every day and I'm 99% certain that there are more bots in this botring. Accounts that play pretty much similar style.


However, my HEM malfunctioned recently, so I have only ~80k hands in my DB, so I'm not willing to post other SNs without any additional proof. I have <10k hands on those accounts.
I'm just saying there are more of them.

i have reported some of these accounts for colluding in the blitz200 games two weeks ago and they kept playing.

i did not think, they were beating the game, but there clearly was something fishy going on.

sidenote. in 2010 a lot of msnl bots were discovered that were widely regarded as fish by regulars back then. turned out they were beating the games for around 2bb/100. so that doesnt mean much.

if they do have a sort of card collusion mechanism, that would allow for a lot of fishy preflop stuff.

I've been paying a lot of attention to those accounts, including going through all their hands off table.
Honestly they are probably colluding, but they're not doing it well and they are not too obvious. They do show up with ridiculous stuff from time to time, but that also happens when there is no other bot involved. The worst thing they do is higher 3bcoldcall freq when another bot is involved, but, again, they tend to coldcall 3bets/4bets with random hands even when there is no other bot at the table.



A lot of punts end up with them losing stacks. A lot of stuff is obvious to a person that pays attention (player one limps utg, another one tanks forever and overlimps btn, you can safely xb KK on the big blind).

A lot of punts happen when there are no other bots on the table and are really hard to explain.

They definitely try to squeeze players out and occasionaly bluff them out of the pot though.

They are also slowly improving (Malutas was straight up fish as recently as 3 weeks ago).

I think that right now they are very slight losers pre rb and win a lot after rb. They're probably crushing fish, I imagine that small 3bets OOP are some kind of population exploit.

They do help keep the games running, but, like I said, at certain point there is too many of them per table to keep comfortably playing.

pm sent

^^i thought, they were just some livepoker donks who now colluded online, because their casino was closed

noticed exactly this

thats not it I think

1)they play too similar and too unconventional style
2) they adjust too slowly. I was 4betting any two cards (that did not want to call) vs their small 3bets for ~ a week and was getting almost exclusively folds.
After a week they suddenly started jamming.

I doubt that a real human would fold to a ~10th straight 4bet by the same person in one session.

This could be variance though.

All that said, all of them are losers in my DB, in both $ and aiev. Small sample though.

Edit: long tank in spots they play together would, however, suggest that they are actually humans that collude.
Another argument is that it's hard to imagine anyone programming a bot and starting off with 3x openraise size, wide SB flat and 3x OOP 3bet size. That would point to them being live players. Actually, you might be right when I think about it. Not sure, I have no clue how are bots actually created.

well, if its true and everybody can get cheap RTA now like fedor kruse, they might actually be livedonks. livedonks with bad rta and a discord channel

I completely agree with anything you said , and yeah i am assuming a few individuals are running all this botrings on multiple sites . For me it looks so easy to spot them and catch them but it's also so obvious that most networks don't care about this , all they want is rake and it doesnt matter who makes it , sometimes i even think they prefer bots instead of humans because bots never complain .

We players can't do much , i personally reported bots many many times and nothing really happened , accounts are still there. I will be shocked if ACR take actions but still have faith they might actually clean the ecosystem a bit , and we will be talking about new botrings that we are tired of in year or two again , because its not only that they have to take care of this botrings they also have to make sure thsi doesnt happen again and from my experiance on ACR this is happning every year or two untill ppl are sick of it and they take some actions , but obviously their security department is incompetent.