That's exactly what a bot would say to get us off his scent!!

What's ignition model?

I'm guessing he means anonymous tables? I feel like that is actually much better for bot rings though, we have no way of tracking stats to detect them and bots don't rely on individual reads anyway

I was referring to the anon tables, hand history transparency and anon tables. It's also worth noting 15s per decision with no timebank on the zone tables. It mostly addresses bumhunting but should also help with fight against bots.
The only improvement I would make is having id of a player remain consistent in hand histories available after 24hrs but random on an individual table.

are the numbers listed on the various charts including the rake race? someone who always gets one of the top slots is getting about 68k a year more from rake races which could make their rakeback around 85 percent if it hasn't been accounted for.

Anon tables, low time banks and anon tables dont do **** against bots. I like low time banks, but they actually do give bots an advantage.
Transparent would help if the tables werent anonymous.

Not a problem, because you get really transparent blunders, such as folding AKo on the button vs AA in the blinds. However, careful study of their tendencies lets you take advantage, they tend to show up around 1 pm PT (might be earlier some days). Since they don't have stats to work with, tend to repeat same actions. If you see, you might be scared, but do the call. They can be taken advantage of, and a lot easier than some sites. (In my database, I have a tag to mark their hands). Having the hole card information regardless of action has its perks.

You can even use this knowledge to pull up population tendencies for this group. I know you are able to have an edge on Bots, have read your posts in the BOL forum. Its your choice as to how you want to play (which I hear is short handed), to each their own. Advanced bots do use stats on villains, and I think you know that. On a vacuum site such as Ignition Zone, where stats are totally unavailable during play, you need to play gto optimal, and heavy on the exploitative as well. The bots are not programmed that well. Do some human players use real time solvers? They would need separate computer, solvers shut the client down (which should happen with banned software and BOL).

Unable to use seating scripts whatsoever. Unable to keep long term stats on reg tables, and none in Zone. Unable to keep other than session stats in MTTs and SNGs. No real stats with Spins. They can try with the Nash charts, but the more advanced bots need to play 1knl or larger, and just like your site, I am sure the regs can handle them.

The other bots at the lower limits, well - we can handle them. Bots still steal from the eco system, but you don't seem to mind if you have the advantage. You have a better advantage on a anon site if you know how to play.

Yea for sure, the Jardani's and Xorybur's of the world are getting that insane number but a lot of the names listed don't always appear in the top tier. I just made a crude estimate assuming some of those names are in the "General tier" and get the $500 a week, while others are in the 5 star General tier and get the 1250 a week

They will only work for the selected player, so you would select Xory or Jordi as the hero and it should work.

put my 2 cents here.
Im not sure about NL bots, what u r probably talking about, but as i see as PLO bots play, they play pretty much GTO and it calibrated pretty well for 100bb, i think those bots use pretty ~same AI for nl, so nl bots should play pretty close to GTO as well.

So removing hh\making anon tables, will give more advantage to them, +1 to NINzent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chekthastak View Post
The rakerace is small potatoes to what you get with the loyalty program. They are both at the 5 Star General level which means for every rake point they get they get 5 combat points, and every 625k combat points they can redeem a 10k bonus. They average ~35k rake points a week, so 5k rake points a day which is 35k combat points a day, which means every ~18 days they play they earn enough points for a 10k bonus. Additionally every 100k rake points you get a "distinction" bonus that starts $2600 at 200k points and increases by $200 for every 100k up until 1 million points where you get a 20k bonus. Then you get an additional $9200 for every 250k points after that until 2 million where you get a $19,200 bonus.

So if they're taking slighly lower EV lines (but still +EV) in order to ensure they see more flops thus paying more rake so they earn more bonuses it makes a lot of sense.





you can not take both the elite program and rakeback> you can only have one or the other, this i know for a fact

That post doesnt say they get RB and EB. Its saying those players/bots get the Beast Rake Race in addition to Loyalty rewards.

This. But additionally my post is completely wrong because I misunderstood how rake points and beast points worked, lol. Beast points accumulate ~1.5x faster than rake points and I simply don't feel like doing that excercise again. But it's entirely possible that latrom was correct and the sites would actually make a small profit if they banned the bots based off their higher effective rakeback percentages.

I want to ask players who play on WPN. Listed accounts disappeared from the site
or these bots continue to play at WPN?

xorybor and jadrani (or whatever they're called) disappeared and beast race is gonna have lower than usual thresholds this week (most likely)

I know of at least one bot account that is still playing.

Yea it's been nearly 2 weeks since I've seen either. Would be nice if refunds are coming soon.

OP posted a lot of nicknames what about the rest?

CheckRiverPls
HiMomIChampion
alakrity
w0rdvirus
daggerrunner
Unassailable1
LaLaRa2211
dijkstra48
lastresistance
drunkenrage11
wielded
bobo1923
hallowedbyName
chiefbumster
Tsunami8000
AcerbateSensei
vienalgaman
golddublon
Bayaz
LordAzriel5
RumbikBubik
shootist

Personally, I would be significantly more likely to give the site a try if I read on here that it appears significant progress is being made on a bot ring like this. I'm kind of annoyed with the small-time rewards/high take on Pokerstars PA and am interested in other options. But I am reluctant to jump into a bot-infested cesspool.
I can't be the only one who feels this way and isn't on the network currently but could be eventually.

Also want to add to the echo-chamber that this is some pretty impressive research to more conclusively determine that players you "suspect" of being bots almost certainly are. Kudos on the research here. The All-In and shared card stuff is fascinating too. Running that far above EV certainly seems likely to be a result of hole-card sharing.

I would say there are bots on every site. It's probably less of a thing on US only sites but it wouldn't surprise me if there are bots there.

Also it's not like the bots on ACR make the games unbeatable. I play mostly 200nl but when the Blitz pool isn't running I'll play 50nl Blitz and I can promise you those games are insanely soft bot or no bot. At 200nl the bots strategy doesn't really work so it's not as prevalent there, and the couple of suspected bot accounts appear to be gone.

Overall I just I can't imagine playing online without rakeback, with the number of hands you play online the amount of rake you pay is massive and not getting any of that back is a massive hit to your win rate.

I agree and some of what you said was my hunch as well although I wasn't really certain so it is good to hear those opinions.
Stars rewards is lousy. 12% rakeback more or less (given other occasional promos) isn't ideal. And the rake structure itself isn't even that good. Pay $500 in rake in a day to get $40 or so in "rewards" is quite the gut punch.
At the least the games are pretty soft in PA, the software is still my preference for my comfort, and the cashout stuff on a US regulated site is so much easier and faster than that crypto currency nonsense.
But I'm definitely getting closer to giving it a shot. All that rake is crazy..even in decently profitable games.

I can definitely understand the ease of withdrawal and reliable software angle. I'm in NY so my options are limited. The crypto stuff actually gets pretty easy after a couple of deposits, and if you use the right market place you can reduce your fees to about 0.5% which is about as good as you can hope for.

Great work OP. Do you think these bots are on GG too?

It seems like Stars is the only "safe" place to play. I don't trust them as much since Amaya took over but still... Party claims they ban bots but I never got a single dollar back from them and I know I've played against a ton of bots there and im suspicious of a few accounts in the FF pools.

Where are we at with this? more bots continue to show up and play the same exact way.

AshesRemain
CookieDope8

are two other Russian Federation bots that sit together and pull off the usual cheating shenanigans discussed in this thread.

It's just a constant revolving cycle of getting rid of bot names called out, creating new ones, and cheating honest players.

When will ACR take action? What can we do to help?

nice work, seems like we fighting a losing battle with poker guys

Any of these accounts get banned?

seems like wpn isnt interested in cleaning their network from bots.
only 1 person who is banned so far is me, from their forum for making bot reports i guess.
lol i love it
https://prnt.sc/tsnqoa