^^^^ Pretty much my perspective as well. The fact anyone genuinely believed this botxxxxx player was a bot because some low level customer service rep screwed up is kind of strange, but I can see the emotion behind it given ipoker's complete lack of noticeable action to date against the bots that infest their network.

I never was a believer that the network wanted the bots for rake generating purposes, because these bots destroy games long term, but the fact they have operated pretty much unchallenged for years was a sign that ipoker could not fight them effectively.

Remains to be seen if their sudden interest to clamp down on bots will result in anything, but I hope it does and if it took a couple of now unemployed customer service reps screwing up to be the catalyst for this, then the industry owes them a debt of gratitude for their incompetence.

I posted the following in the iPoker Regs thread so guess I'll post it here as well....

Anyone who actually believes that WilliamHill run bots in real money online poker games via the poker client are pretty naive.

It's so obvious that the member of support staff at WH has no clue about the difference between bots used in their casino games as opposed to their online poker games. They clearly don't use any bots for online poker games versus other real players (other than the casino poker games, like Casino hold 'em and carribean stud etc.)

Bots are obviously always used in the casino games, why on earth would they implement winning bots in to the online poker games? It would be absolutely ******ed and lose them money. Once again I want to reiterate how obvious it is that the support staff was getting confused and just citing the casino terms and conditions regarding bot players.

People need to actually think for themselves and think about the bigger picture for 5 seconds instead of instantly believing the first thing they read...it's ridiculous.

How much value does a random Ipoker customer support person have in this?

reversed psychology.

yeah this whole thread was a misunderstanding.

but yes, the point still stands that there are bots beating $400nl+ on ipoker

just asked ipoker about this thread. and their respons :

Dear "player"

Here is the answer of ipoker

We would like to take this opportunity to publish the network’s policy and stance on automated “bots” being used on iPoker, and to comment on some specific accounts that have been mentioned on www.Pokerstrategy.com.
Our policy is clear: A poker account is to be used exclusively by the registered account holder and the use of any automated “bots” is prohibited. In all cases where iPoker security department is satisfied that an account is being used in any other way than by the sole registered account holder the account is closed. This is done in every case regardless of how much rake the account has contributed, and forum posts that suggest iPoker ignores “bots” because of the rake they generate are very much wide of the mark.
The network’s security department regularly checks suspicious accounts at all stake levels and is freezing accounts for failing our “bot” testing procedures, as well as taking firm measures towards affiliates of such “bots” rings.
The integrity of the network is our highest priority and it is essential that players know they are in a secure environment. We will always investigate any account that we suspect of using “bots” and if the members of the iPoker network have concerns over particular accounts we request to receive these concerns and inquiries for investigation.

I wish you a lovely day
Kind regards

We surely cannot control what management makes out of it, but we can do whatever it takes to make sure the information is forwarded to the right department. I think that is pretty much the same for all businesses and normal employees.

I have been in contact with an iPoker rep who tells me they will make a statement on 2+2 "soon".

and they expect we to believe the statement of course. LOL

Could you ask the William Hill rep to state in this thread whether bot771107 is a human or a WH house bot, to end all the speculation?

Thanks.

are we really going to believe anything they say?

Exactly, they can make statements until they are blue in the face, when bots are reported and it's painstakingly obvious, everyone is told x player is not a bot.

There's going to be nothing new here, the network is riddled and Ipoker are happy to ignore the problem, individual skins might not share that stance but that's irrelevant as they are powerless to carry out any meaningful investigation, all security matters for every skin are all handled by Ipoker.


Also Paddy Power Poker rep can you please either stop signing off with the name Jonny or include your sir name, you're not the first Jonny to have represented Paddy Power Poker and probably won't be the last, it's just going to cause confusion. Thank you.

Maybe wait to see what they actually say before working out whether to believe it or not.

Statements from regulated companies are usually true because there are quite severe penalties for misleading customers. Usually it's what they don't say that gives them away. So we should wait and look closely at exactly how clear and unambiguous the statement is.

Which regulator in specific are you referring to?

The law, and anything else that applies. I've not done any research into their status or anything.

Also, outright lying is pretty bad for an organisation's reputation. So the shadow of the future helps a bit.

Still it does seem a bit churlish to say you're not going to believe something you haven't even seen yet.

I think you really do need to read up, there are no legalities involved in any jurisdiction relating to automated playing systems for online poker.

Many regulatory bodies are just a rubber stamp, take Malta for example, read up on Casinomeister what their view is of this organisation, many ipoker skins are licensed there.

You're right, lying generally isn't good for business, but so long as you can't prove they're lying, then technically it's not a lie is it?

You could argue that this information might damage their share price but I disagree, if you presented this info to share holders/investors, it would probably only make them want to increase their stake based on some of the data posted here!


It's the skins that need to collectively take action against Ipoker, the only power you have as an individual customer is to vote with your feet and stop playing on ipoker.

These ipoker bot threads are just going round in circles and nothing new ever comes from them, each and every time the result is always the same.

I've been around the block and back again with regards to this issue and I stand by my statement, call it defeatist if you will but based on my experience, I can assure you this is going to be another drone response from Ipoker.

That really isn't true at all. For example: The Gambling Act and more relevant to false statements that influence customer choice The Trades Descriptions Act. It has to do what it says on the tin.

We would like to take this opportunity to publish the network's policy and stance on automated "bots" being used on iPoker.
We are sorry that it took us a while to compile the statement as we had to put a focus on our investigations first.

Our policy is clear:

1. A poker account is to be used exclusively by the registered account holder and the use of any automated "bots" is prohibited.

2. In all cases where iPoker security department is satisfied that an account is being used in any other way than by the sole registered account holder the account is closed.

3. This is done in every case regardless of how much rake the account has contributed, and forum posts that suggest iPoker ignores "bots" because of the rake they generate are very much wide of the mark.

The network's security department regularly checks suspicious accounts at all stake levels and is freezing accounts for failing our "bot" testing procedures, as well as taking firm measures towards affiliates of such "bots" rings.

The integrity of the network is our highest priority and it is essential that players know they are in a secure environment. We will always investigate any account that we suspect of using "bots" and if the members of the iPoker network have concerns over particular accounts we request to receive these concerns and inquiries for investigation.


With regards to "bot771107" we can categorically state that the account is not a "house bot". iPoker, nor William Hill, do not and never have used house bots. The account in question is not a William Hill player.
With reference to the William Hill terms and conditions, the confusion has been caused due to their Terms & Conditions for skill games allowing "bot" players not being explicit. They have now rectified this.

if not a house bot?

so why not state is it a customer or a bot?

banned, verified?

Not much of a statement, im new here but reading several threads seems like you have issues with bots on your network, its not like the first being reported now, kinda sucks as when i open every other page on 2+2 all i see is advertisements for william hill

not great adds when right below the adds your getting bashed and not resolving the issue fast enough

iPoker security,

Please address, if you will, the following concern:

The main issue, in my opinion and that of many players on your site I believe, lies with your security department.

How do you explain that most of the best players at MSNL on your network have identified with absolute certainty literally dozens of bots and that your security department hasn't come to similar conclusions about any of those accounts?

Are the people working security for iPoker qualified in terms of Poker knowledge?
It seems incredibly likely that iPoker's security department is strongly lacking in terms of its ability to detect anything, really.
iPoker is the most bot-ridden network on the planet and nothing is being done about it.

I suggest you strongly consider getting people on the job who know something about poker, because this is going to end up costing you a lot of money.
None of your regs is going to let go of this issue. The "house bot" is just a red herring. Most of us quickly understood that, so let's not waste any more time on that issue.

Please address the reasons that there can be such a huge discrepency between expert players' opinions and those of your security department.
Are we just being completely paranoid against your network?

I'd like you to choose between the following options, the only possible explanations as to what is happening; This will make things simpler.

-MSNL Regs on iPoker are completely paranoid and while they see dozens of them, there is not a single bot on the network, nor is anyone colluding.

-iPoker doesn't care about bots because they rake a ton of money

-iPoker's security department is incompetent and unable to detect any instance of cheating/botting, save for the most obvious ones.


If you see another plausible explanation, please let us know. Personally I don't.

You're right about misrepresentation and companies misleading customers but again, I invite you to prove it, until you can do so, there's no case to discuss.

William Hill and William Hill online are also two different entities, arguably in two similar but different jurisdictions.

http://www.williamhillplc.com/wmh/me...r/2009-08-04a/

And...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Gibraltar

I can't comment specifically on gambling and company law relating to Gibraltar


I knew straight away this was a misunderstanding, no company would be stupid enough to admit to such activity even if it were true, but again ipoker have failed to properly address the general issue of bots on their network. I'd be interested in hearing their response to the questions raised in the above post.

I just want to know how ipoker security thinks Andirey is not a bot. Let's see how you can explain their play. There are about 50 that play exactly the same.

OFFICIAL – William Hill Poker – Zero Tolerance on bots

Our alleged use of Bots is an issue we take very seriously.

Our response is unequivocal in this regard, though we acknowledge the statement from one of our Customer Service Representatives was not accurate in this respect.

William Hill Poker is committed to providing a fair and equitable playing environment for all players.

William Hill Poker operates in the iPoker network who deploy ongoing management and technical resources to identify and eradicate all types of unfair gaming, in every poker room, including the use, or attempted use, of Bots. The iPoker policy is clear in this respect –

“A poker account is to be used exclusively by the registered account holder and the use of any automated “bots” is prohibited. In all cases where iPoker security department is satisfied that an account is being used in any other way than by the sole registered account holder the account is closed”.

Any response, reaction, denial or confirmation, other than those posted by ‘William Hill Poker’, regarding William Hill’s use of bots, should be disregarded.

Please note that our Skill games site, operating on the GameAccount network, does employ ‘Bots’ and these are clearly marked as so in the software. This is why our terms and conditions are worded to allow the use of ‘Bots’.

Sincerely

Colin Cole-Johnson
Gaming Director, William Hill Online

I think everyone realises this was simply an error from a customer service representative at this point, but perhaps you might care to explain the continued affiliation of a large number of ipoker skins, including yours, to one of the most popular online bots available on the market?

I reported this affiliation some time ago and I was promised it would be investigated, yet lo and behold, you still have affiliation links with this botting company?

Would you or your affiliate manager care to explain why?

So let me get this straight, people are afraid to play against bots?