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why can I see mucked hole cards in my hand history? why can I see mucked hole cards in my hand history?

04-11-2009 , 12:40 AM
I'm new to the forum. I would be inclined to lurk a little more and post in other threads before starting a new thread myself, but I need an answer to this question.

Here's the hand history from a hand I played tonight on Bodog:

Code:
Please note: You can only view your own down cards. Other players will only see your cards if they were played through to showdown.
« Prev Hand | Next Hand » 
Hand Number	1577561718
Start Date	2009-04-10 23:33:14
End Date	2009-04-10 23:34:49
Pot Size	$51.00
Rake	$2.00
Game Type	Hold'Em
Play Mode	Real
Table Name	Warwick Hills
Structure	NL
Table Stakes	Min Bet	Max Bet	Ante	Blinds
$0.50	  	$0.25	$0.50


Community Cards 	2h  8s  Ad  4c  5d    
Player Information
Screen
Name	Seat
Position	Cards
Dealt	Start/End
Amount	Total
Bet	Win/Loss
Amount
PlayerX 	1 	Ah  6d   	$46.75/$21.00 	$25.75 	$-25.75 
SillyRabbit 	2 	 	$58.55/$58.55 	$0.00 	$0.00 
juguete 	3 	 	$64.80/$64.80 	$0.00 	$0.00 
2Hi 	5 	 	$70.40/$70.40 	$0.00 	$0.00 
Me 	6 	2d  2c   	$39.95/$65.20 	$25.75 	$25.25 
brewhasurf 	7 	 	$34.40/$34.40 	$0.00 	$0.00 
youngb4life 	8 	 	$12.40/$10.90 	$1.50 	$-1.50 


Hand Actions


Player	Action	Action Data	Timestamp
brewhasurf 	Set dealer/Bring in spot 	7  	23:33:14 
youngb4life 	Ante/Small blind 	$ 0.25  	23:33:14 
PlayerX 	Big blind/Bring in 	$ 0.50  	23:33:14 
PlayerX 	Card dealt to a spot 	A  6    	23:33:14 
SillyRabbit 	Card dealt to a spot 	  	23:33:14 
juguete 	Card dealt to a spot 	  	23:33:14 
2Hi 	Card dealt to a spot 	  	23:33:14 
Me 	Card dealt to a spot 	2  2    	23:33:14 
brewhasurf 	Card dealt to a spot 	  	23:33:14 
youngb4life 	Card dealt to a spot 	  	23:33:14 

SillyRabbit 	Fold 	$ 0.00  	23:33:17 
juguete 	Fold 	$ 0.00  	23:33:20 
2Hi 	Fold 	$ 0.00  	23:33:20 
Me 	Raise 	$ 1.50  	23:33:24 
brewhasurf 	Fold 	$ 0.00  	23:33:32 
youngb4life 	Call 	$ 1.25  	23:33:34 
PlayerX 	Call 	$ 1.00  	23:33:39 
 	Betting round completed 	Last active pot = $4.50  	23:33:39 


 	Card dealt to table 	2  8  A    	23:33:39 
youngb4life 	Check 	  	23:33:41 
PlayerX	Check 	  	23:33:45 
youngb4life 	Sit out next hand 	  	23:33:47 
Me 	Bet 	$ 3.75  	23:33:55 
youngb4life 	Fold 	$ 0.00  	23:33:56 
PlayerX 	Call 	$ 3.75  	23:34:00 
 	Betting round completed 	Last active pot = $12.00  	23:34:00 


 	Card dealt to table 	4    	23:34:00 
youngb4life 	Stand up 	8  	23:34:02 
youngb4life 	Stand up 	true  	23:34:02 
PlayerX 	Check 	  	23:34:10 
Me 	Bet 	$ 8.50  	23:34:24 
PlayerX 	Call 	$ 8.50  	23:34:29 
 	Betting round completed 	Last active pot = $29.00  	23:34:29 


 	Card dealt to table 	5    	23:34:29 
PlayerX 	Check 	  	23:34:35 
Me 	Bet 	$ 12.00  	23:34:46 
PlayerX 	Call 	$ 12.00  	23:34:49 
 	Rake amount 	$ 2.00  	23:34:49 
 	Betting round completed 	Last active pot = $51.00  	23:34:49 
Me 	Showdown 	Show card: Three of a Kind
2  2  2  A  8    	23:34:49 
PlayerX 	Showdown 	Muck card  	23:34:49 
Me 	Hand result 	$ 51.00  	23:34:49
I changed my screenname to 'Me' and the screenname of the other player to 'PlayerX' and left the rest of the hand history as is.

My question is: If PlayerX mucked, why can I see his hole cards in my hand history?

While we were playing, I never saw his cards. They were mucked. I went back and asked PlayerX in the chatbox whether he had showed. He said he had not.

I'm aware that in a brick and mortar casino I can technically require him to show his cards even though he acted behind me... Although this just isn't done regularly (and shouldn't be), I've seen it done on a couple occasions and the floor manager was called over, yada yada yada, and the player was required to show. (And the player who asked to see the cards was told that repeated requests from him would not be accepted).

Last edited by TBOPACY; 04-11-2009 at 12:53 AM.
why can I see mucked hole cards in my hand history? Quote
04-11-2009 , 12:50 AM
A lot of sites do this when a hand goes to the river and there is a showdown . The cards don't show but they show up in HH .
why can I see mucked hole cards in my hand history? Quote
04-11-2009 , 12:51 AM
Almost every poker site shows you the hole cards of anyone who went to showdown. It doesn't matter if they opt to show it at the table or not. Like you said, anyone in the hand can ask to see, so I assume poker sites have just streamlined this by listing all hands if anyone asks or not.
why can I see mucked hole cards in my hand history? Quote
04-11-2009 , 02:05 AM
People watching but not playing can not see the mucked hands, and if they look in their hand history they will NOT see the hole cards.

The mucked cards are only visible to those who played the hand, in the HH. BUT not when folded, so that those lurking will not see them.

That is why you have to look in HH.
why can I see mucked hole cards in my hand history? Quote
04-11-2009 , 02:55 AM
Yes, this comes from the B&M rule you referred to: if you're dealt into the hand you can request to see any players' holecards if those players reached showdown. This was put into place to let players police the game for whipsawers and feel comfortable that "all that raising was legit." If you muck, you muck, but any person dealt in the hand can request (view HH) your holecards like they can live. This is standard for all major sites.
why can I see mucked hole cards in my hand history? Quote

      
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