I'm leaving to the Isle of Man next Tuesday and want to discuss the issue of Seating-scripts at the meeting with Stars. I wanted to create this poll to see where the community stands as a whole and what kind of mandate do I have to discuss solutions.

I'm personally against seating-scripts and have some ideas on how to deal with them, but I'd rather speak with the voice of 2+2.

It seems to me that many here want Stars to ban seating-scripts and police that ban with all their might. Stars have so far proclaimed their impotence and refused, but if you want me to keep demanding them to act, I'll do so.

The option Stars is offering is Zoom. They clearly have a financial interest to promote it as well (decreased winrates), so they are understandably reluctant to offer other solutions for scripts. However, if the community agrees with Stars, I'll tell them that.

There's also some options for creating a technical fix for regular tables, few of which were recently discussed in the related HSPLO-thread:

completely randomize seat-selection. If a table has more than one seat available, Stars should seat you randomly. Simple fix making the scripts less effective, my favorite.

table-starters already developed by Stars, completely randomizes both seat- and table-selection

must-move tables a system common in live poker where players waiting to get into the soft table must play amongst each other until a seat opens up

If you have another technical fix in mind to deal with scripts, please vote "other" and explain it ITT

I'll also add the option of not doing anything about seating-scripts

I've allowed multiple choice if some of you want to ban scripts but also push for a techincal fix, for example.

I'm stunned if a company the size of Pokerstars with their supercomputers, that also brag about their top notch anti bot detection, cant ban scribts and detect them. Most regs can detect these scribts and who use them with their bare eyes.

My vote goes for 'Stars must ban seating scripts and police them', misclick that I also voted option 6.

What do you think about a twoway orbit?

This means one orbit clock wise, the next orbit anti-clockwise, etc..

This gives you position on every opponent and it gives all your opponents position on you.

And to make it very clear what direction the orbit goes at the moment, there are many possibilities.

For example by a big sign, like a red or green light, so all players easy know what direction the orbit is going.

A two-way orbit is imo the most honest and normal game play. Zoom is also good, but its a different game

Take seat selection away from the players. Randomize seat selection. That's the best solution.

You could just have the players names be anonymous for the first 10 hands or whatever.

Either way the worst option is zoom only.

The second worst option is the most popular, "Ban and police", because people will just work around it.

GGARJ can you ask them how many players accounts pokerstars have approximatly in total? 50 million? 100 million?

I know they get new players everyday but for example how many there were at the end of last year?

888 claims they have ten million. How many does PS have. I mailed PS support several times but they say they have no information about that what so ever. They adviced me to ask in the forums..,. A bit strange but ok.

And if you can ask them also how many players on pokerstars have played omaha? What the percentage of there players is that has tried omaha?

I suggest PMing a Stars rep here. I can certainly ask them, but if they tell me, I'll need their approval for sharing those numbers publicly.

two-way orbit is an interesting idea, can't say how I feel about it right off the bat

scripts need to be banned however or whatever way it gets done it needs to get done.

ok. i will send a message to a PS rep here about the player numbers.

For the two way orbit: if you are there in a meeting with the ps people, suggest them to play a live home game at that moment. ( Bring your deck of cards This home-game with a two way orbit. So you can all get the feeling..

Anextra idea for easy use on the tables: any player can have two lights on its side. right and left.
If the orbit goes clockwise the left light is on,.. if the orbit goes anti -clock, the right light is on..

Equal positional advantage seems to me the most honest.

BAN obv

+1 for BAN

I've given no thought to the value of a Two-way Orbit, however if it was implemented then surely the simplest way is just to re-seat all opponents (from hero's perspective) each orbit. There is no need for signs, flashing lights, and marching bands.

Ban is the obvious chose for most people. Probably a mix of a few of the options would make the games far but not take away from the idea of game selection (which is an important skill in playing poker for a living)

From what stars has said banning isn't that practical. I think they want a format that removes a lot of the liberties we have with table selection, and stopping the scripts would just be a bandaid.

I'm quite sure that the current format won't be around in 10 years, it makes the "skill" of seat selection more valuable then actual skill at poker, and eventually poker sites will buckle up and go to a format that more closely resembles live.

I voted for "Random seat selection". I enjoy playing both ZOOM and "normal" poker tables, but they are two completely different games. I chose random seat selection because it still gives you an old-fashioned poker game in which you can develop reads, take advantage of position over certain seats, etc..., but at the same time you cannot choose to sit on the left of a specific player.

Unfortunately, I don't think that this will entirely solve the issues of ASS as people can modify them to sit them at a table with a losing player regardless of seat. I would prefer an outright ban, but I don't think that is possible or likely, and it still doesn't prevent those that are able to not get caught from using them.

I do like the idea of the two-way orbit, especially if it were combined with the random seat selection. If you are allowed to choose to sit to the left of a losing player, even if using a two-way orbit, you would still be in a position to play more hands with the losing player due to close seat proximity. With random, while someone will get a better seat, it will not happen every time.
With two-way orbit, I like the idea of having a light on either side of the player to signal which direction the orbit is going. I don't like moving the players around, even from the point of view of the player, as I often base reads based on a combination of player name and where on the table they are seating. If they move seats I may not realize that it is the same player (personal preference, as I don't/won't use a HUD).

Make games zoom only, or take away the ability to sit where you want on the reg tables.

Bum hunters are bad for games.

p.s Stars should reduce rake to alleviate the effect taking away seat selection would have as well.

The important thing is that Stars only bans scripts if they can enforce the ban. Otherwise it will to a joke situation like on PartyPoker or with dataming on Stars where all the honest regs who follow the rules are being punished.

A quick and easy fix to make situation better would be to get rid of the "R" sign or at least don't let people reserve a seat and not sit down more than, say, 10 times a day.

Make Easy Seat competitive with scripts. Then it would be a level playing field.

Prolly a dumb question, but are table scanners like TableScan Turbo considered as seating scripts?

No, they don't seat you automatically, just tell you where the fish is sitting

(afaik, never used it)

Turn tables zoom only and lower rake.

Thanks for all the votes so far, people!

Remember to describe your ideas when voting "other technical fix", as some of you have already.

I'm just gonna point out that due to people's generally vitriolic attitudes towards seat scripters you can't hope to get a true representation on this issue by conducting the poll as completely publicly viewable.

^^^ I dont get it, aren't the voters identities hidden to the public here?.


Only a handful of players even have these scripts, so whether or not the consensus is to be in favor of a ban, clearly only people who would be against a ban are the current players owning them which is just a priveledge few. No matter you say buddy, nobody gonna support this crap, get rid of them.

Ummm, for clarity's sake I will say that I don't have a script or even play in games where they are used much at all. For that reason I have not expressed any opinion on the matter or voted in the poll.

I merely pointed out that if you want to get a consensus on how many people are set against them in principle vs how many don't really have a problem with them, then you can't really do it either in forums or in a poll without anonymity being guaranteed. The animosity displayed towards anyone saying a word in their favour means that barely anyone will express their opinion on the subject because they don't want to bring a tonne of **** down on their own heads.

If you feel it is already settled that the community at large is against the scripts then this poll is fine and very worthwhile, but the number of people voting 'There's nothing wrong with scripts' can't be relied on because the people who would say that have clear reasons to avoid their SN being shown as voting for that.

While your arguments for an anonymous poll aren't completely w/o merit, I think they're a little exaggerated.

Discussing is one thing, voting another. While someone posting ITT arguing for allowing scripts is likely to get flamed by some, the thought of voters facing a witch-hunt is just lol.

Is there really someone out there scared of voting against the majority in this poll? It's not exactly a referendum on freedom of speech for neo-nazis.