Hello everybody

I am a regular player and as many of you already did, I tried to open an account on a new (to me) site. Everything seemed to be pretty normal during the registration form until I clicked the confirmation button and got an error suggesting me to contact support. And so I did.

I sent an email to support explaining the situation, and they answer me the following:

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Dear ****
Upon checking, we noticed that you managed to create an account under the username **** by filling the required fields. However, please be informed that the account cannot be activated due to a final management decision in accordance with out Terms and Conditions.
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So, of course I asked for more reasons or at least any further explanation whatsoever, and I got this:

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Dear ****
We can't disclose the reason behind this decision.
We reserve the right to close any account under any grounds we see fit as per our Terms and Conditions.
Regrettably, no option for re-opening is available.
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Apparently I've been banned for a well defined reason and they have the right not to telling me a single thing.
To me this looked very suspicious, so I went to read the full page of Terms and Conditions, just to double check and make sure that I did not (even unintentionally) tried to do anything illegal by opening a new account there.

So I've read the full page here
and I was sure (of course) that I did not do anything wrong.
So I wrote them again specifying all the points that I did not brake and here is again their answer:

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We would like to inform you that your account has been closed in accordance with point 54 of our terms and conditions, which is the following :
54. We shall be entitled to close your Account and void all unsettled Gambling Transactions in the following circumstances:

a) in accordance with the "Cheating, Collusion, Fraud and Criminal Activity" section below if an investigation concludes that you have used the Website and/or the Services in a fraudulent manner or for illegal, unlawful and/or improper purposes; and/or

b) immediately if we are requested to do so by law enforcement or regulatory authorities or by a court order; and/or

c) by giving you reasonable notice if you don't supply any information reasonably requested by us; and/or

d) immediately if we discover or have reason to believe that you have breached, or are breaching, these Terms & Conditions.

That would be the most information we can provide and the decision remains final.
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Here my jaw did literally fall off I mean, this is seriously a "what the heck is going on here" situation. I tried to open an account (and I was 100% sure that I didn't have already one there) and I got banned because apparently, according to them I'm a cheater or did some illegal activities?!

I wrote them again, explaining that It's physically impossible for someone to do anything illegal since I didn't even have an account there before (!) and it make absolutely no sense for them to ban me for the above mentioned reasons. And of course their answer has been:

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Our management team took a decision to close the account in accordance with the provided Terms and Conditions.

This decision will remain final and cannot be changed.

That would be all of the relevant information we can provide in this case.
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So, I'm a cheater, a fraud and possibly a scammer, and ALL this just by trying to open a new account!

I could definitely move on this case and look for a new site, but I was wondering if

1. Did this ever happened to any of you? Not specifically on this site, but on any?

2. I don't want to sound paranoid, but my hypothesis for a possible reason to all this happening is that somebody, somehow, managed to get my documents and opened already an account on that site. So now that the real me tried to open an account, I get banned because there cannot be two me registered. Do I have reason to think so?

Let me know what do you guys think.
Much appreciate your time reading this post.

GL everyone

This is winner.com the ipoker skin?

been playing on there for years and never any problems.
Always skeptical that am getting the full story by OP on these sort of posts

Where are you from? What affiliate did you use when creating account?

I actually don’t know what skin is.
If you think I’m not telling the truth and did actually try to do something illegal, would I be so stupid to ask support on a public forum?

I’m from Italy but living in Canada. I did not use any affiliate.

They believe you have an unsettled debt. You are screaming that you do not, which may or may not be true, but given that it is a skin on a network with dozens or 100+ skins - who really cares. Create an account on a different skin if playing on ipoker is for some reason that important to you.

People with <10 posts do this all the time, with many of them offering the same "logic" as you just did, so you can do the math regarding the level of stupidity.

Fortunately in your case it appears that your rejection happened when you created the account, so no money is lost. If you are telling the complete truth(rare for these threads) then only you can decide how important your reputation is to a random small site, as well as to the internet (which does not know nor care who you are).

As to your concern that someone stole your documents to create an account on winner.com - I guess if someone really did ID fraud on you then be happy that their big plan with that was creating an account on a fringe poker site for no apparent gain. You seem very lucky in that all of these huge injustices against you come with no financial cost to you.

All the best.

The question still remains because how actually they could even get an unsettled debt from someone who never had an account on that site?
It’s not that important as there are plenty of other rooms out there, but I never had these kind of problem before and I got concerned.

Now I understand all the skepticism about my post. I’m not really active on any poker forums at all and I didn’t know about it. I’d be totally reacting as you guys are if I knew that people are that stupid to try to scam and then ask for support.
I don’t think that there is anyway I can prove that I did not try to do anything illegal, but let’s suppose (for the sake of the argument) that something like that happens to some of you, what would you do?
Would be wise to ask if that happened to anybody before or should I just move on and don’t think about it anymore?

Again, I’m concerned mainly because it never happened to me before and I was a bit surprised considering the circumstances.
I suspected the ID fraud because I really have no clue of how all this could have happened. Of course you guys do have reasons to believe that simply happened because I tried to do something illegal and got caught. But if this is not the case (which in fact is not) then what could ever be other valid reason for this to happen?

Not very well played by the site. Should've let you deposit first imo and get some of that dirty Italian money over to the isle of man.

“Dirty Italian money”
I don’t know what kind of problem you have with Italians but I definitely see by the quality of your comment what Monteroy was referring before when he mentioned the level of stupidity.

Did you charge back on another ipoker skin or something?

I’m not sure I understand your question.
What do you mean by charge back?

Maybe someone in your building did something. Maybe you are not remembering something, like something you did on another ipoker skin (have you ever played on ipoker before).

I mean, why did you even bother trying to create an account on this random room that likely 99%+ of people never heard about? Why does what they say (given they took no money) matter to you? The fact this seems to cause you grief is what makes a lot of your story confusing ( I will ignore the weird concern that you had that someone faked being you to create an account at a fringe site - as it makes no sense).

A rando skin of ipoker rejected you for who cares what reasons. Maybe they confused you with a Lizard Person. Does not matter, because that room is irrelevant and they took no money. Treat the situation appropriately (assuming you did nothing wrong) and move to a room where you have a less hostile reception.

All the best.

Really? I always thought that it was one of the bigger iPoker rooms, and would've figured most regular online players would've heard of it, but perhaps I'm mistaken. That's not especially important, though.

Sigh.

No, it definitely didn't.

You deposit to a site by credit card, then dispute the charge later so you get refunded the money, leaving the site out the funds. There are probably ways to do this with other funding instruments as well.

Maybe it is one of the bigger skins, I have no idea what the big skins are there any more as its been years since I and some others had fun with Will Hill when they moved there. I vaguely recall they were setting up and segregating the players in different tiers of skins for a while, but no idea if that ever happened.

I guess, being the skeptic of <10 OP threads like this that I am, why anyone would choose this site as their first choice. How did they make that choice. Odds are, this would not be the first room a person who registered here years ago (with granted few posts) would join, so if they knew about ipoker, then odds are they played on a different ipoker skin, and odds are some issue happened that was never resolved, and that information is shared among the skins in some way.

That's how these things usually play out, and the OPs always make the exact claims of not knowing anything that this one did, so it is unfortunate if one of them is telling the truth, because they have all of their previous " I am innocent" <10 post OPs before them to thank for that.

Perhaps you mean that someone did something illegal using my ip address?
Nobody that I know is a regular or occasional player in my neighbourhood.

I tried to open the account because on that site there was a good rake back deal and because I wanted to give it a try. I hope I didn’t say anything weird or unusual so far as I think that these would be the most normal reasons to open an account.

What they said it definitely touches me because I’ve been accused of fraud, cheating and illegal activities. If I did something wrong, I want to know it so that I can prevent it in the future.

The possibility that they might have confused me with someone else it’s pretty much rare if not impossible. I did not reach the point where I could upload the documents, I just managed to reach the point where I was about to confirm the creation of the account and I got the error message saying to contact support.

Ok on this one I lied, it didn’t fall

I don’t even know what you are talking about as I don’t have the slightest idea of what it means what you wrote

Usually in these threads the OP leaves out information, but they always talk about how innocent they are, so the irony is that routine is usually a red flag.

Regardless, as I said, I highly doubt this was the first room you created an account on. You have been registered here for a few years (despite not knowing what a chargeback means somehow), and if you are looking at this room, because of a "good rakeback deal" (amusing to hear that in 2019), then what does a good rakeback deal even mean? There still under the table stuff being done on this network? You said you had no affiliate, but how were you then going to get the "good rakeback deal?" Perhaps that is why the account did not get opened.

Have you ever played on that network before? If so, how many rooms? How many places have you had accounts with in the past? Did you ever have any issues with any of them (bonus abuse, credit card issues etc).

I will give an example for me when I spoke with the guys in the affiliate department at Sun Poker years ago after they migrated to ipoker. We laughed as they went over my account history on Sun Poker's old network (Cryptologic) where I had I think 8 or 10 accounts (was allowed by that network in the good old bonus whoring days). My account was apparently tagged for no bonuses allowed (which didnt matter since I was not going to play there, rather was going to potentially back players there).

Point is, they had notes about me, and some restrictions based on stuff that happened with them when they were on a different network a couple years prior to that.

Perhaps you did something in that regard. What it is, and whether you know it or not, is something else, and in the end given no money was lost and the room itself is not that important - don't worry about what they have to say. However, if you find you cannot create accounts on different rooms in the network, then good chance it is related to whatever caused this problem.

Tell me what information I left out and I'll answer all of them one by one.

Where did I ever write that it was the first room I've ever created?
I strongly doubt that I said and since you think that I'm leaving out information, no. It's not the first room I have an account with OBVIOUSLY.

Correct I've been registered for few years, so what?
I didn't know what a chargeback was till the other guy mentioned. I googled and now I know what he was talking about. Since when not knowing something makes a person guilty?

Do we seriously have to do it by definition?
Rakeback definition

Simple, by reading this and this and comparing it with what other rooms have to offer. Simple as it is!

No, I've never played on that network before. I have plenty of other accounts on other rooms (of course). Do I have to give you a full list of all the rooms I have an account with? In what regard this information could be of any relevance?
I did not have any issue of these kind or whatsoever before this one.

Yeah I got that I don't have to worry about it, but I still didn't understand wtf is going on. I had an issue, I tried to ask support and they left me with more questions than I had previously.
I wrote on a public forum and I find people thinking that I'm scamming like a hell. Again, I understand being skeptical, but there is no point for you to answer me if you think that I'm a fraud. I'm trying to be transparent as much as possible but it seems to get more and more messy as we keep talking.

I never said that it was my first choice.

What is the rakeback deal that attracted u to this skin? Because when i asked what affiliate u signed up with u said u didnt use one.

I believe all ipoker skin vip programs are basically the same.

Also can u be more specific in wat site u r talking about. U say winner.com but in ur rakeback define link u link to pokerking which is a winning poker network skin...a bit confused

Actually, when one reads all the responses you gave to my questions (some specific) - you basically never said anything, and that again is part of the routine of people who create threads like this use often.

The best case scenario is that you are a very slow to understand person, who for some reason locked into this minor room/skin due to a belief that had some type of special offer (that was just standard), and now you are mortified that they did not allow you to open an account at a total cost to you of $0.

If the above is true then you are in luck because your next steps are to do the following:

- Hookup with a proper rakeback affiliate. I think some still post here somewhere. I used raketherake 15ish years ago and they are still kicking around here, so some companies like that are doing something proper long term. They offer extra incentives on top of the standard room offers (that get you so excited) and if you run into issues like this they can at times help resolve them for you.

- Do better research than comparing a single skins different VIP programs. You are not a total newbie, stop behaving like one. Understand what the different networks are, and what their benefits and requirements (playthrough, transfer rules, verification rules, currencies they use) are as well as their potential issues (how long have they been around, bots or collusion issues etc.)

- Stop whining over insignificant things. If indeed this single skin rejected you for who knows what reasons (without costing you money), then get over it and recognize that you should not want to do business with a place that does not accept you anyway. If you did nothing wrong, then winner.com not accepting your application means nothing.


Follow all of the above and you will have a better experience in the industry.

Now, do I believe you are as completely clueless and naive as the above requires? Not really, but given nothing was lost (except time on your part and those like myself who bothered to reply) then figuring out what is missing by asking more questions that get answered by non-answers is pointless, so you will be happy that I will not bother doing that again. Enjoy the advice above.

All the best.